How much have bikes really moved on in the last few years?

[YamR1V64motion]

until it was written off earlier this year i had an RR6 Fireblade, the settlement is finally looking like the end is in sight but you never can tell with insurance companies-quick to take your money and very slow to pay out!!.
anyway if the payout is soon i was thinking of buying a cheaper bike because i miss riding that much, and buying the new model Fireblade next summer, which got me thinking:

have the ultra modern bikes really come on that much in terms of useable performance and handling on the road?

a new GSXR 1000 compared to say a K1?
or a 916/996 to a 1098?
has going from a 954 cc to a 1000cc really made the Fireblade that much greater(this is the only one that ive owned both of and i dont think there really is that much in it)

if you look at some of the performance figures they arnt actually miles apart like some people would have you belive, so just wondered what others thought on the subject?.

[F.M]

For me...they chop 2-4kg off the machine...add higher lift cams to move the power even futher up the rev range then flash the fancy figures around...more power...less weight...same old heavy traffic,congested roads & ridiculous ability to top the national speed limit in 2nd gear...
If you look at the torque figures over the past 5 years you will notice very little improvement & the tendancy for the peak of the curve to creep up the rev range...lighter internals,higher spec valves etc all play there part to increase the engines ability to spin & therefore make more power.
My mate has a K6 Rizla GSXR 1000 & was meant to be `handy`...I showed him the way home with my missis on the back of my old GSXR1100...
It`s really only on the track that the difference matters.
Fashion trends are, of course, a big part of it too...
IMO...As long as you love your bike...feel comfortable on it & enjoy looking at it as much as riding it...it`s a winner.

Edited by F.M on Monday 3rd September 13:22

[Twit]

In real world terms I doubt bikes have changed that much in two years. Fashions change and therefore, how bikes look has changed but in terms of useability a fast bike 2 years ago is a fast bike now. I would think, you would have to push to the outer extremes to really notice much difference. Having said that I think quite a lot of review have stated that sports bikes today are more extreme than a few years ago and in some cases are less useble as a result...

[YamR1V64motion]

im thinking about buying a 996 , if i like it loads then i might just hold onto it and not bother buying the latest,greatest Fireblade next year.

[black-k1]

F.M said:

For me...they chop 2-4kg off the machine...add higher lift cams to move the power even futher up the rev range then flash the fancy figures around...more power...less weight...same old heavy traffic,congested roads & ridiculous ability to top the national speed limit in 2nd gear...
If you look at the torque figures over the past 5 years you will notice very little improvement & the tendancy for the peak of the curve to creep up the rev range...lighter internals,higher spec valves etc all play there part to increase the engines ability to spin & therefore make more power.
My mate has a K6 Rizla GSXR 1000 & was meant to be `handy`...I showed him the way home with my missis on the back of my old GSXR1100...
It`s really only on the track that the difference matters.
Fashion trends are, of course, a big part of it too...
IMO...As long as you love your bike...feel comfortable on it & enjoy looking at it as much as riding it...it`s a winner.

Edited by F.M on Monday 3rd September 13:22

Very true. You have to be trying very hard (and be quite skilful) to actually notice a substantial difference on real public roads. You will also be well past the "few points on the license" territory and well into the "throw away the key" zone. The track may be a different matter but on the road .....

[archie456]

YamR1V64motion said:

a new GSXR 1000 compared to say a K1? if you look at some of the performance figures they arnt actually miles apart like some people would have you belive, so just wondered what others thought on the subject?.

I had a K2 which was stonking, a real angry ripper of a motor in the midrange, with a pretty good top end. Sadly it got written off, so I bought a K6 last year. Whilst quicker on top-end, it seemed flat in delivery by comparison with the K2, and sounded like it was eating socks. So far not so good..

So I did what any self-respecting owner would do and gave it to Crescent for a little fettling. They replaced the midrange rip (now 85ftlb for ages), it sounds great and puts out 190bhp at the wheel. It goes like a proper rocket and is as drivable as standard - I'd recommend this to anyone.

Better than a K2 now? I think so but it's a lot more expensive. I think bikes are getting less usable by the year.

[YamR1V64motion]

archie456 said:

YamR1V64motion said:

a new GSXR 1000 compared to say a K1? if you look at some of the performance figures they arnt actually miles apart like some people would have you belive, so just wondered what others thought on the subject?.

I had a K2 which was stonking, a real angry ripper of a motor in the midrange, with a pretty good top end. Sadly it got written off, so I bought a K6 last year. Whilst quicker on top-end, it seemed flat in delivery by comparison with the K2, and sounded like it was eating socks. So far not so good..

So I did what any self-respecting owner would do and gave it to Crescent for a little fettling. They replaced the midrange rip (now 85ftlb for ages), it sounds great and puts out 190bhp at the wheel. It goes like a proper rocket and is as drivable as standard - I'd recommend this to anyone.

Better than a K2 now? I think so but it's a lot more expensive. I think bikes are getting less usable by the year.

i really do respect the GSXR 1000, ok so admittidly im more a Fireblade man and would probably still favour one over the GSXR when i come to buy, but they are an awesome machine, as you said a bit of fettling by Cresent and its making the same sort of power as that somewhat overpriced Desmosedici RR

[R1_JON]

Very little difference at all IMHO.

I don't think some riders realise how much difference the rider makes to the equation. I've seen a guy who races on an SV650 trounce a guy on a Blade on the road. The guy with the blade wasn't all that bad either.

One thing that annoys me is how small the newer bikes are getting. I would like to buy a new bike but all the new thous are getting so small. I think I'll end up with a ZX10R simply because it looks substantial.

[archie456]

R1_JON said:

Very little difference at all IMHO.

I don't think some riders realise how much difference the rider makes to the equation. I've seen a guy who races on an SV650 trounce a guy on a Blade on the road. The guy with the blade wasn't all that bad either.

I totally agree - I've also got a 1200GS, and below 100mph it's as quick as anything else around the corners on the road. I'm not Jonathan Rea, but I'm constantly surprised at how slow/inept some people are on bikes.

R1_JON said:

One thing that annoys me is how small the newer bikes are getting. I would like to buy a new bike but all the new thous are getting so small. I think I'll end up with a ZX10R simply because it looks substantial.

I was in two minds as whether to get a K6 as they're so small. If bikes get any smaller then that's it for me, I just won't fit on one.

[aquarama]

Hi all I own a 996 and love it to bits, I have never ridden a modern Jap bike but did have a test ride on a 1098, which amazed me it was a much improved machine apart from the mirrors. Motorbikes seem to evolve so quickly it makes you wonder if a bike will be made that cannot be improved on. I would love a 1098 but cant afford it and would,nt be able to do it justice anyway.

[Hooli]

only new bike ive ridden was a '55 reg cbr600 & it was nasty. tiny, cramped, gutless till you reved it & so on. my old '94 RF600 is a fullsize bike, so it might not be quite as fast/handle as well but i dont care. i can sit on it not over it & still walk after several hundred miles, cant see that being possible with how cramped new bikes are.

[blade7]

[quote=F.M]
My mate has a K6 Rizla GSXR 1000 & was meant to be `handy`...I showed him the way home with my missis on the back of my old GSXR1100...


Your "mate" can't ride to save his life if you could do him on that dinosaur, GSXR 1100s are a pile of poo.

[blade7]

archie456 said:

puts out 190bhp at the wheel. It goes like a proper rocket and is as drivable as standard - I'd recommend this to anyone.

Crescent tuning + their dyno, wakey wakey you're dreaming.

Edited by blade7 on Tuesday 4th September 21:54

[Fire99]

I totally agree about current trends to chase ultimate HP by getting more and more revs but sacrificing midrange driveability.
I think the past 2 years or so it it is very close but if you look over the past 10 years braking and suspension has come on quite a bit.

However rider confidence means soo much. IMO someone who rides an early 90's YZF750 and really feels what is going on will blitz someone on an '07 gixxer thou who is a little scared of it.

[archie456]

blade7 said:

archie456 said:

puts out 190bhp at the wheel. It goes like a proper rocket and is as drivable as standard - I'd recommend this to anyone.

Crescent tuning + their dyno, wakey wakey you're dreaming.

Edited by blade7 on Tuesday 4th September 21:54

Wakey wakey you're asleep.

Yoshi cams, gas flow, skimmed head, full race kit pipe and filter, power commander and there you are.

How do you think Suzuki make SBK bikes then??

Edited by archie456 on Tuesday 4th September 22:32

[blade7]

[/quote]

Wakey wakey you're asleep.

Yoshi cams, gas flow, skimmed head, full race kit pipe and filter, power commander and there you are.

How do you think Suzuki make SBK bikes then??


[/quote]

I think with a lot more input than that treacle, and I doubt it would be very nice to use one on the road. If you think the route to a fast roadbike is all about engine you must be a straightline hero.

[Scrooloose]

Oooooo. handbags!

I've recently changed to a K7 GSXR750 from the GSXR750WV ('97)

The K7 is a world apart in terms of the handling, but definitely makes its power a bit further up the rev range. Mirrors were better on the WV though and you could get a six-pack under the seat hump!

Being fuel injection, the K7 will also pull from very low revs, which the WV wouldn't.

Would pick the K7 every day!

[F.M]

This topic is opening a can of worms tbh...how fast/crazy does anyone need to ride on the road to `prove` the prowess of the latest machine...pretty much all the 1000cc stuff can crack 120-145mph in 11 seconds or under....
Rider confidence & ability while riding on public roads are a greater factor than what the bike is ultimatly capable of. Trying to use every inch of grip & power on public roads is (imo) a recipe for disaster to yourself & other road users...we can only go as fast as traffic,road conditions & the fear off waving your license goodbye allows.
Track days & racing...yes.. here the differences are more tangible as, theoretically at least, the pace can be 90% upwards of what the bike can actually do...

Edited by F.M on Wednesday 5th September 06:31

[archie456]

blade7 said:

I think with a lot more input than that treacle, and I doubt it would be very nice to use one on the road. If you think the route to a fast roadbike is all about engine you must be a straightline hero.

Exactly, this is about as much power as you can get from a K6 without it being unrideable (for the road) and also costing the earth.

I don't pretend it makes a faster road bike, just a more interesting engine as I said earlier. The first mods to the bike were dymags and Ohlins each end. Again, I can go as fast on my GS1200 in most circumstances under 100 mph, I just also like to ride something with a bit of a buzz to it.

And any bike, even a GSXR1100 can go very well in the right hands.

[blade7]

Got to say I'm disapointed archie, thought you were about to swallow the bait and get all precious like that berk rawrhide, seems like you have a sorted gixer but can't agree about the 1100, they were rubbish handlers 15 years ago and things have moved on a lot since then.