Should I buy a ........ Ducati

[anonymous-user]

"I liked those but I think Aprilia missed a trick there. Had they issued the Futura with the same level of tune as the RSV I think it would have been a great success. It would have been a real sports-tourer. Instead, it looked different and didn’t really offer anything extra over the competition. (ST4S, VFR, R1100/1150RS etc.)"



I think they softened the engine to make it a little more rider freindly, probably better suited for touring than the rsv tuned engine and it should help long term reliabilty not that there's anything wrong with the rsv's.

They're very good value atm though

Edited by JS99 on Friday 2nd November 11:57

[ITP]

I've got an 05 ST4S like the one shown, only mine is grey with red wheels. Also lurking in the garage is an original 99 RSV1000 . In terms of performance there isn't much difference between the two, especially if you've just passed your test! Suspension is actually better on the ST4S for the road, on a track i think it may run out of clearance though. Servicing dearer on both than jap stuff. I got the ducati because i was doing a bit of motorway stuff so wanted a bit more comfort and i couldn't bear to part with the other one. Thats the thing with italian bikes, they are a bit different, i would probably change jap bikes much more often. Jap bikes are probably 'better' overall by i just prefer the whole ownership experince. Both bikes have been reliable by the way. Oh and if you are after an 04/05 ST4S be aware there were only about 80 sold in the UK!

[podman]

[quote=aeropilot
The reason being people don't know how to treat them.




[/quote]

Sorry, that’s rubbish…in all the instances I know of the bikes have all been correctly serviced and looked after and low mileage at that…. you take a high mileage Duke into a dealer and watch them suck their teeth deciding if they want to take it as PX or not..

A road bike shouldn’t need a new gearbox in 2k miles or pistons in under10K.

Of course you can get a problem with anything mechanical and I don’t doubt there are many happy owners who have had miles of trouble free riding out there but the fact is a highly strung V twin IS going to be more fragile than a four.

I appreciate that a relationship with a sexy Italian mistress is an appealing prospect but I don’t want to muck around with the expensive and time consuming foreplay and just get down to business…

Of course, if I had the disposable id have a 1098 alongside the gixxer but not instead of.

[black-k1]

podman said:

... but the fact is a highly strung V twin IS going to be more fragile than a four.

And what FACT might that be? Any highly strung engine will be more fragile than a non-highly strung engine, but a 4 more reliable than a v-twin? That doesn't hold much water as in cases where reliability is the utmost consideration, less tends to be more! There are less parts to fail.

[trumpet600]

black-k1 said:

podman said:

... but the fact is a highly strung V twin IS going to be more fragile than a four.

And what FACT might that be? Any highly strung engine will be more fragile than a non-highly strung engine, but a 4 more reliable than a v-twin? That doesn't hold much water as in cases where reliability is the utmost consideration, less tends to be more! There are less parts to fail.

I think what he meant was highly strung, as in Duc's as opposed to the jap V's, which tend not to be highly strung.

I knew what he meant.

[podman]

black-k1 said:

podman said:

... but the fact is a highly strung V twin IS going to be more fragile than a four.

And what FACT might that be? Any highly strung engine will be more fragile than a non-highly strung engine, but a 4 more reliable than a v-twin? That doesn't hold much water as in cases where reliability is the utmost consideration, less tends to be more! There are less parts to fail.

Tell that to Airwaves Ducati who wanted a new set of fruity pistons in the the new "1200s" so they can hold together...

FACT is 4 smaller pistons revving at high RPM cause less stress on the whole engine than two large pistons, which is why they spend a fortune on crankcases a season...

[black-k1]

podman said:

FACT is 4 smaller pistons revving at high RPM cause less stress on the whole engine than two large pistons, which is why they spend a fortune on crankcases a season...

This is only true if you are looking at larger bike engines and your single biggest concern is top end power as it is with racing engines.

Ducati may or may not have a reliability issue with their road bike engines, but this is not a generic feature of the V-twin compared to the four. Honda, Suzuki and Aprilia (to name but 3) all make/made V-twin engines of the same capacity with very similar power outputs and all of these engines are viewed as strong and reliable.

[ITP]

G Man just wants a nice bike to go touring on though. If i wanted a bike for trackdays/racing and wasn't loaded i don't think i would choose a ducati either due to potential maintenance costs. Also wouldn't choose one if i was into giant wheelies/burnouts/general stunting etc. For normal fast road/odd trackday however i think they're fine. Then all it comes down to is if you prefer v-twin or 4 cyl bikes, more commom/less common etc. Like i said ducatis will cost a bit more to run but i wouldn't bother about them blowing up every 6 months. Most bikes are great these days just choose the one you like the most and go for it!

[Ballon]

podman said:

[quote=aeropilot
The reason being people don't know how to treat them.

Sorry, that’s rubbish…in all the instances I know of the bikes have all been correctly serviced and looked after and low mileage at that…. you take a high mileage Duke into a dealer and watch them suck their teeth deciding if they want to take it as PX or not..

A road bike shouldn’t need a new gearbox in 2k miles or pistons in under10K.

Of course you can get a problem with anything mechanical and I don’t doubt there are many happy owners who have had miles of trouble free riding out there but the fact is a highly strung V twin IS going to be more fragile than a four.

I appreciate that a relationship with a sexy Italian mistress is an appealing prospect but I don’t want to muck around with the expensive and time consuming foreplay and just get down to business…

Of course, if I had the disposable id have a 1098 alongside the gixxer but not instead of.

I can only talk from persoanl experience.

30 years of riding, 17 years of year round commuting in London.

I currently own a Ducati which is my third and I have also owned 2 Aprilia's. In many thousand of miles (including European touring and track days) not one has ever let me down. Major services can be expensive but then so is a major service on a Honda VFR.

Its best to look after them and service them at the correct intervals, but IMHO you should look after any bike.

If you like it buy it and believe all the rumours.

If

[podman]

black-k1 said:

podman said:

FACT is 4 smaller pistons revving at high RPM cause less stress on the whole engine than two large pistons, which is why they spend a fortune on crankcases a season...

This is only true if you are looking at larger bike engines and your single biggest concern is top end power as it is with racing engines.

Ducati may or may not have a reliability issue with their road bike engines, but this is not a generic feature of the V-twin compared to the four. Honda, Suzuki and Aprilia (to name but 3) all make/made V-twin engines of the same capacity with very similar power outputs and all of these engines are viewed as strong and reliable.

Disagree, a V twin isn’t as inherently balanced as a 4, more components in a 4 means the stress is shared between smaller and lighter components which are easier to spin to high RPM to produce the BHP we all now expect from a sports bike.

I also disagree its only the race teams that need good BHP, when you’re a sports bike manufacturer like Ducati your road bikes need to offer competitive BHP to shift units in the market place, to fund those race teams ….and that means a more “stressed” unit on road and track trim..until you get to the point where to get that competitive BHP and enable your product to sell and be reliable you need more CC…hence the 1098 and every thing in between since the original 916..

As you state the jap v twins are comparatively old hat and shy of even a 999 by 10BHP…and they are viewed as strong and reliable…because they ARE strong and reliable! as is the Rotax lump in the RSV, its a proven unit..

For me, and the general motorcycling populace, Ducati means deep red pain, glorious noise, Foggy , WSB , (now)Casey Stoner and questionable reliability..id love a 1098 in the garage for summer days thou but I can only afford one bike and im a realist!

[ITP]

How about an MV Augusta F4 1000 then! Italian and 4 cylinders A bike that may persude me to chop my two in for...

[black-k1]

podman said:

black-k1 said:

podman said:

FACT is 4 smaller pistons revving at high RPM cause less stress on the whole engine than two large pistons, which is why they spend a fortune on crankcases a season...

This is only true if you are looking at larger bike engines and your single biggest concern is top end power as it is with racing engines.

Ducati may or may not have a reliability issue with their road bike engines, but this is not a generic feature of the V-twin compared to the four. Honda, Suzuki and Aprilia (to name but 3) all make/made V-twin engines of the same capacity with very similar power outputs and all of these engines are viewed as strong and reliable.

Disagree, a V twin isn’t as inherently balanced as a 4, more components in a 4 means the stress is shared between smaller and lighter components which are easier to spin to high RPM to produce the BHP we all now expect from a sports bike.

I suggest you have a read here. A V-twin is better balanced than a straight four!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance

podman said:

I also disagree its only the race teams that need good BHP, when you’re a sports bike manufacturer like Ducati your road bikes need to offer competitive BHP to shift units in the market place, to fund those race teams ….and that means a more “stressed” unit on road and track trim..until you get to the point where to get that competitive BHP and enable your product to sell and be reliable you need more CC…hence the 1098 and every thing in between since the original 916.

As you state the jap v twins are comparatively old hat and shy of even a 999 by 10BHP…and they are viewed as strong and reliable…because they ARE strong and reliable! as is the Rotax lump in the RSV, its a proven unit..

And that is my point. It’s not the V-twin concept that is inherently unreliable. IF there is a reliability issue, it is with Ducatis implementation of the concept.

podman said:

For me, and the general motorcycling populace, Ducati means deep red pain, glorious noise, Foggy , WSB , (now)Casey Stoner and questionable reliability..id love a 1098 in the garage for summer days thou but I can only afford one bike and im a realist!

We each have our own opinions and our own likes/dislikes and if that’s your opinion, then that is fine with me. However, I disagree with the statement that to the ‘general motorcycling populace, Ducati means deep red pain’ as the anecdotal evidence from this site, along with the reasonable sales success of Ducati over the last 10 to 15 years would tend to point to the contrary. Each to their own!

[podman]

im loving this!...sure, as it says, depending on the angle of the V they offer "good" balance, however 4's are smoother and its the vibration from those big v twin pistons that cause those stress inducing pulses within.

Ill grant you the second point! Detune them all I say!

…and lastly, that was a typo, I did actually mean deep red painT, not pain..lol

However my point stands, this site/thread isn’t really representative enough make any kind of conclusion as to whether Ducati’s are unreliable or not but from my personal experience and from the general MC press they have a questionable issue regards reliability.

[rsv gone!]

All I can say is that mine was crappy. It is the only bike that has let me down. I'd chose Aprilia over them every time. Same passion and decent electrics. Cheaper 2nd hand, too.

If I went to an ST4S then I'd have my past experiences in mind. I'd take a chance on one because the engines are common enough for spares to be available from crashed 996s. They do ride well, with excellent stability.

They need to be well used, though. Keeping them as a garage queen seems to do them no favours (in common with TVRs and other exotica).

I now like riding more than liking what I ride, if you see what I mean? The riding is the priority rather than the bike. Anything that doesn't start first time is a waste of riding weather for me.

[hiccy]

To answer the OP:

No, they're crap, have always been crap and will always be crap.



Or


Yes, they're wonderfull, the sun shines out of the exhaust pipes and out of your arse when you ride one.


Or the truth is probably somewhere in between, you decide eh?


Lotta bollox being spoken about concepts that certainly wouldn't last under the glare of FEA.

[G Man]

Update ... off to check out a Ducati ST4S tomorrow .....with the cash

[K3EFH]

Do it do it !!

I have a 749s, and it has never put a foot wrong in 4 years (jinxed now), Yes always get it serviced at Ducati Glasgow, £350 per year up to £450 with the belt change.

As for comfort I travelled round France and Spain on mine and it was great, and I'm a bit rounder that I maybe should be!

The reliability of ducati I think is unfairly tarnished, the 749 and 999 have had no major calls backs and have not had the same faults.

Its like Alfa Romeo, everyone still thinks they are unreliable but their modern cars are just as good as a jap car.

GO ahead buy a jap bike but I assure you that the next time a ducati passes you, you will be gutted.

[G Man]

I am now a DUCATI owners

A red Duke ST4s ABS fab condition .... yesssss !!!

[black-k1]

Congratulations. They're a nice bike. I hope you have many happy miles together.

[rsv gone!]

You'll have to get over to MK for a spin out with me and Oggs