track days - 600 v 1000
Discussion
Yes yes I know, it's been asked a zillion times already, but it's something that I've thus far not found the answer to despite picking the brains of mates.
Basically I'm sat here racking my brains out on what bike to buy, I've a list of the candidates, all of which I love, and I know exactly what I want to use it for, however my lack of track experience on bikes is the fundamental flaw in deciding.
I've convinced myself that although I prefer riding litre bikes on the road, that I'd be of more benefit getting a brand new or nearly new 600, CBR600RR or R6, as I'm looking to start doing trackdays and the like.
The few people I've had a chance to ask have basically said get a 600, as I'll be able to learn how to ride the proverbial arse off it, and generally have more fun, where with a litre bike I run a grave risk of being a bit of a straight line hero.
Whilst I love riding on the road, I'm far more interested in riding on track. Free time however dictates that the road is where I'll spend most of my time on the bike.
My question is basically have those of you with track experience "grown out of" 600's and onto bigger machines, or kept them and learned the ways of consistency and wringing everything you can out of corners?
I was very keen on the idea of a ZX10R, but I'm more comfortable on the blade and R1, so it's between those in the litre class, or an R6 vs CBR600RR in the 600 class with more test rides coming soon.
My main reservation is my size, I'm 6'3 and fairly heavy, so whilst I'm happy knowing I'm not likely to be scouted as the next Rossi, I'm curious as to whether a litre bike would indeed be overkill to learn how to send bikes round a track properly on.
The litre bikes these days seem more than chuckable, nearly as much as the 600's are, hence the dilemma!
And before it's suggested I'd considered 750's but as much as I love ZX7Rs (which I really do adore) I can't see them holding a candle to newer stuff on track, and I don't want another suzuki.
Cheers,
Stu
Basically I'm sat here racking my brains out on what bike to buy, I've a list of the candidates, all of which I love, and I know exactly what I want to use it for, however my lack of track experience on bikes is the fundamental flaw in deciding.
I've convinced myself that although I prefer riding litre bikes on the road, that I'd be of more benefit getting a brand new or nearly new 600, CBR600RR or R6, as I'm looking to start doing trackdays and the like.
The few people I've had a chance to ask have basically said get a 600, as I'll be able to learn how to ride the proverbial arse off it, and generally have more fun, where with a litre bike I run a grave risk of being a bit of a straight line hero.
Whilst I love riding on the road, I'm far more interested in riding on track. Free time however dictates that the road is where I'll spend most of my time on the bike.
My question is basically have those of you with track experience "grown out of" 600's and onto bigger machines, or kept them and learned the ways of consistency and wringing everything you can out of corners?
I was very keen on the idea of a ZX10R, but I'm more comfortable on the blade and R1, so it's between those in the litre class, or an R6 vs CBR600RR in the 600 class with more test rides coming soon.
My main reservation is my size, I'm 6'3 and fairly heavy, so whilst I'm happy knowing I'm not likely to be scouted as the next Rossi, I'm curious as to whether a litre bike would indeed be overkill to learn how to send bikes round a track properly on.
The litre bikes these days seem more than chuckable, nearly as much as the 600's are, hence the dilemma!
And before it's suggested I'd considered 750's but as much as I love ZX7Rs (which I really do adore) I can't see them holding a candle to newer stuff on track, and I don't want another suzuki.
Cheers,
Stu
Stu R said:
My main reservation is my size, I'm 6'3 and fairly heavy
I'm 6'5" and around 18 stone, so whatever you buy, you will probably need to get new springs front and rear as a minimum. Personally, I find the litre bikes slightly more roomy, although the 600 are extremely chuckable if you're slightly larger than the average japanese consumer!!!In a position like yours...perhaps an older 1000...99 R1 perhaps or similar....It can be demoralising to have the pack of 1000`s whip by you on the straight, It can encourage you to try too hard to catch up in the corners ...
Personally , I found the extra torque of the bigger bikes more suited to my riding style...a less manic ride than the 600`s.
I must say that the ZX10`s etc of the current era do need your full attention..they are virtually kicking out the same power as the 99 BSB bikes which as we all know were rockets.
Not sure if all that lot is of any help but for sure your abilities can grow into the bigger stuff although both 600`s & 1000`s are capable of hurting you without the right approach to your riding.
Enjoy whatever you get.
Personally , I found the extra torque of the bigger bikes more suited to my riding style...a less manic ride than the 600`s.
I must say that the ZX10`s etc of the current era do need your full attention..they are virtually kicking out the same power as the 99 BSB bikes which as we all know were rockets.
Not sure if all that lot is of any help but for sure your abilities can grow into the bigger stuff although both 600`s & 1000`s are capable of hurting you without the right approach to your riding.
Enjoy whatever you get.
robstvr said:
Daytona 675. Spanks the 600s, lighter, 125bhp. Oh, and gorgeous looks and sound.
Lovely as they are my mate has one and I found they're just that little bit too dinky for me, I do agree though they look and sound fantastic, especially the limited edition phantom black with gold one 
robstvr said:
Daytona 675. Spanks the 600s, lighter, 125bhp. Oh, and gorgeous looks and sound.
i test rode one and there isnt anything in it between the 675 and the 600RR, dont know about the latest R6 but i would imagine it would be right up there too, the RR makes slightly less power quoted at 118BHP but it weighs 155kgs dry vs the 165 kg of the 675 so it all balences out, just depends what you prefer really an I4 or a triple, just looked on MCNs bike reviews and the new R6 is quoted as making 133 BHP 
thinking about it though we all know Yamaha like to exagerage when it comes to the R6.Stu R said:
I'd considered 750's but as much as I love ZX7Rs (which I really do adore) I can't see them holding a candle to newer stuff on track
Does this matter if your only intention is trackdays and not racing. If it does then surely the litre is the only option, and still expect to be over taken by someone with less capacity but more talentI went from doing trackdays on a K5 GSXR 1000 to a 2007 600rr purely to improve my riding. A mate of mine (a vastly better rider than me - he has raed for many years) on a 600 used to be able to keep up with me purely due to his corner speed. I found that i was used to picking up mylap times on the striaghts rather than pushing the corners. The 600 has improved my riding no end as I push myself to keep up with the litre bikes. I'm not sure but I genuinely believe I am faster round places like mallory on the 600. Silverstone is a different question due to the size of it. Ocerall I don't regret it for a minute.
I am also 6'3" and 18 stone, I agree I do look ridiculous on the the GSX-R600 I just bought; but I do not care! Gorrilla on a beachball, it's the look this season. 
As to the better track bike I can not say as I have not yet tried a litre bike or even been on track, sorry
Will be on track soon, just watch out for the oversized leather on a small bike 
As to the better track bike I can not say as I have not yet tried a litre bike or even been on track, sorry
Will be on track soon, just watch out for the oversized leather on a small bike Edited by IsMad on Thursday 28th February 12:02
My analysis so far:
My R6 on different gearing provides enough drive out of corners (with higher corner speed) than most well ridden 1000s. It is miles better than the old Repsol Fireblade (RIP) through slow and fast corners on most tracks since it has been setup properly for my weight (70kg)
The only place I found it suffers is at the end of Hangar Straight at Silverstone you find most of 1000s creep back up again; you can then choose to use no brakes, down shift two gears and run through Stowe at silly speed and get on the power much earlier down towards Club.
Lets just say that I haven't been urging for the grunt of the Fireblade (re-geared also) on the last two outings.
If I was riding both at the same time (John Smith Cardboard cutout) I would say the R6 setup with 70 profile front tyre, 4mm shim at the rear, 32/28PSI pressures, Race Lab suspension setup, and 15/50 gear conversion will give me quicker lap times around Silverstone or Donington Park than the 2005 Fireblade running similar pressures, slightly more front preload and a touch more compression and rebound damping to stop it running wide and 15/42 gearing.
As for the brakes, the R6 is running with braided lines and EBC HH compound pads; they give the same level of initial bite and feedback as the radials did on the blade.
Tyre wear is better on the R6.
Turn in is much quicker and direction changes (Foggy Esses) are a piece of the proverbial p*ss.
I do miss the paintwork on the blade though, picking out pictures at the end of the day is a nightmare!!
My R6 on different gearing provides enough drive out of corners (with higher corner speed) than most well ridden 1000s. It is miles better than the old Repsol Fireblade (RIP) through slow and fast corners on most tracks since it has been setup properly for my weight (70kg)
The only place I found it suffers is at the end of Hangar Straight at Silverstone you find most of 1000s creep back up again; you can then choose to use no brakes, down shift two gears and run through Stowe at silly speed and get on the power much earlier down towards Club.
Lets just say that I haven't been urging for the grunt of the Fireblade (re-geared also) on the last two outings.
If I was riding both at the same time (John Smith Cardboard cutout) I would say the R6 setup with 70 profile front tyre, 4mm shim at the rear, 32/28PSI pressures, Race Lab suspension setup, and 15/50 gear conversion will give me quicker lap times around Silverstone or Donington Park than the 2005 Fireblade running similar pressures, slightly more front preload and a touch more compression and rebound damping to stop it running wide and 15/42 gearing.
As for the brakes, the R6 is running with braided lines and EBC HH compound pads; they give the same level of initial bite and feedback as the radials did on the blade.
Tyre wear is better on the R6.
Turn in is much quicker and direction changes (Foggy Esses) are a piece of the proverbial p*ss.
I do miss the paintwork on the blade though, picking out pictures at the end of the day is a nightmare!!
veetwin said:
My analysis so far:
My R6 on different gearing provides enough drive out of corners (with higher corner speed) than most well ridden 1000s. It is miles better than the old Repsol Fireblade (RIP) through slow and fast corners on most tracks since it has been setup properly for my weight (70kg)
The only place I found it suffers is at the end of Hangar Straight at Silverstone you find most of 1000s creep back up again; you can then choose to use no brakes, down shift two gears and run through Stowe at silly speed and get on the power much earlier down towards Club.
Lets just say that I haven't been urging for the grunt of the Fireblade (re-geared also) on the last two outings.
If I was riding both at the same time (John Smith Cardboard cutout) I would say the R6 setup with 70 profile front tyre, 4mm shim at the rear, 32/28PSI pressures, Race Lab suspension setup, and 15/50 gear conversion will give me quicker lap times around Silverstone or Donington Park than the 2005 Fireblade running similar pressures, slightly more front preload and a touch more compression and rebound damping to stop it running wide and 15/42 gearing.
As for the brakes, the R6 is running with braided lines and EBC HH compound pads; they give the same level of initial bite and feedback as the radials did on the blade.
Tyre wear is better on the R6.
Turn in is much quicker and direction changes (Foggy Esses) are a piece of the proverbial p*ss.
I do miss the paintwork on the blade though, picking out pictures at the end of the day is a nightmare!!
Which is more fun though?My R6 on different gearing provides enough drive out of corners (with higher corner speed) than most well ridden 1000s. It is miles better than the old Repsol Fireblade (RIP) through slow and fast corners on most tracks since it has been setup properly for my weight (70kg)
The only place I found it suffers is at the end of Hangar Straight at Silverstone you find most of 1000s creep back up again; you can then choose to use no brakes, down shift two gears and run through Stowe at silly speed and get on the power much earlier down towards Club.
Lets just say that I haven't been urging for the grunt of the Fireblade (re-geared also) on the last two outings.
If I was riding both at the same time (John Smith Cardboard cutout) I would say the R6 setup with 70 profile front tyre, 4mm shim at the rear, 32/28PSI pressures, Race Lab suspension setup, and 15/50 gear conversion will give me quicker lap times around Silverstone or Donington Park than the 2005 Fireblade running similar pressures, slightly more front preload and a touch more compression and rebound damping to stop it running wide and 15/42 gearing.
As for the brakes, the R6 is running with braided lines and EBC HH compound pads; they give the same level of initial bite and feedback as the radials did on the blade.
Tyre wear is better on the R6.
Turn in is much quicker and direction changes (Foggy Esses) are a piece of the proverbial p*ss.
I do miss the paintwork on the blade though, picking out pictures at the end of the day is a nightmare!!
I just realised your height, at 6'3".
Have you thought about an SP-1 or SP-2? Nice tall bike for your height and similar performance to the current GSXR 750 will not leave you wanting for grunt or handling.
Also a great bike to look at with tons of race history/success, in my opinion.
Have you thought about an SP-1 or SP-2? Nice tall bike for your height and similar performance to the current GSXR 750 will not leave you wanting for grunt or handling.
Also a great bike to look at with tons of race history/success, in my opinion.
dern said:
veetwin said:
My analysis so far:
My R6 on different gearing provides enough drive out of corners (with higher corner speed) than most well ridden 1000s. It is miles better than the old Repsol Fireblade (RIP) through slow and fast corners on most tracks since it has been setup properly for my weight (70kg)
The only place I found it suffers is at the end of Hangar Straight at Silverstone you find most of 1000s creep back up again; you can then choose to use no brakes, down shift two gears and run through Stowe at silly speed and get on the power much earlier down towards Club.
Lets just say that I haven't been urging for the grunt of the Fireblade (re-geared also) on the last two outings.
If I was riding both at the same time (John Smith Cardboard cutout) I would say the R6 setup with 70 profile front tyre, 4mm shim at the rear, 32/28PSI pressures, Race Lab suspension setup, and 15/50 gear conversion will give me quicker lap times around Silverstone or Donington Park than the 2005 Fireblade running similar pressures, slightly more front preload and a touch more compression and rebound damping to stop it running wide and 15/42 gearing.
As for the brakes, the R6 is running with braided lines and EBC HH compound pads; they give the same level of initial bite and feedback as the radials did on the blade.
Tyre wear is better on the R6.
Turn in is much quicker and direction changes (Foggy Esses) are a piece of the proverbial p*ss.
I do miss the paintwork on the blade though, picking out pictures at the end of the day is a nightmare!!
Which is more fun though?My R6 on different gearing provides enough drive out of corners (with higher corner speed) than most well ridden 1000s. It is miles better than the old Repsol Fireblade (RIP) through slow and fast corners on most tracks since it has been setup properly for my weight (70kg)
The only place I found it suffers is at the end of Hangar Straight at Silverstone you find most of 1000s creep back up again; you can then choose to use no brakes, down shift two gears and run through Stowe at silly speed and get on the power much earlier down towards Club.
Lets just say that I haven't been urging for the grunt of the Fireblade (re-geared also) on the last two outings.
If I was riding both at the same time (John Smith Cardboard cutout) I would say the R6 setup with 70 profile front tyre, 4mm shim at the rear, 32/28PSI pressures, Race Lab suspension setup, and 15/50 gear conversion will give me quicker lap times around Silverstone or Donington Park than the 2005 Fireblade running similar pressures, slightly more front preload and a touch more compression and rebound damping to stop it running wide and 15/42 gearing.
As for the brakes, the R6 is running with braided lines and EBC HH compound pads; they give the same level of initial bite and feedback as the radials did on the blade.
Tyre wear is better on the R6.
Turn in is much quicker and direction changes (Foggy Esses) are a piece of the proverbial p*ss.
I do miss the paintwork on the blade though, picking out pictures at the end of the day is a nightmare!!
I've just come to a very similar conclusion as VeeTwin, although for slghtly different reasons.
For my level of skill a 600 is way fast enough, an R6 from 1999/2000 is cheap enough to throw down the track and not worry too much about it but slightly bigger than the current crop of 600's so I can fit slightly better at 6'2". A few seneible mods to make it more stable and reliable and I should be set for a couple of years of track fun
For my level of skill a 600 is way fast enough, an R6 from 1999/2000 is cheap enough to throw down the track and not worry too much about it but slightly bigger than the current crop of 600's so I can fit slightly better at 6'2". A few seneible mods to make it more stable and reliable and I should be set for a couple of years of track fun
Sorry, forgot to add that an instructor for FE said that I'm very unlikely to highside a 600, easy enough to low side obviously but unlike a litre bike or even a recent 750, a 600 doesn't have enough torque to highside unless you're doing something rerally stupid in 1st gear or te tyres are stone cold.
Just a bit more security for me whilst I learn
Just a bit more security for me whilst I learn
Busa_Rush said:
Sorry, forgot to add that an instructor for FE said that I'm very unlikely to highside a 600, easy enough to low side obviously but unlike a litre bike or even a recent 750, a 600 doesn't have enough torque to highside unless you're doing something rerally stupid in 1st gear or te tyres are stone cold.
Just a bit more security for me whilst I learn
Very good point that. Just a bit more security for me whilst I learn
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