Why I'll never take a bike to the ring...
Discussion
hornetrider said:
Rider culpable there I'm afraid, accelerated into the back of a car turning in. Maybe the car should have spotted him but that was an unnecessary risk imo
Probably not the case at the 'Ring. It's a public road and road, not track, rules apply. The bike was in the process of a legitimate overtake when the car pulled across in front of him. Cars fault - not that it will make the biker any less damaged!black-k1 said:
hornetrider said:
Rider culpable there I'm afraid, accelerated into the back of a car turning in. Maybe the car should have spotted him but that was an unnecessary risk imo
Probably not the case at the 'Ring. It's a public road and road, not track, rules apply. The bike was in the process of a legitimate overtake when the car pulled across in front of him. Cars fault - not that it will make the biker any less damaged!
! The car went for the apex and was in front of the bike. The bike had a better view of what was happening and should have used a little common sense to wait and then blast past on the next straightish section. Would you have the same opinion if it was another bike in place of the BMW?thetrash said:
black-k1 said:
hornetrider said:
Rider culpable there I'm afraid, accelerated into the back of a car turning in. Maybe the car should have spotted him but that was an unnecessary risk imo
Probably not the case at the 'Ring. It's a public road and road, not track, rules apply. The bike was in the process of a legitimate overtake when the car pulled across in front of him. Cars fault - not that it will make the biker any less damaged!! The car went for the apex and was in front of the bike. The bike had a better view of what was happening and should have used a little common sense to wait and then blast past on the next straightish section. Would you have the same opinion if it was another bike in place of the BMW?On public days, the ‘Ring is NOT A TRACK, it’s a one way, de-restricted toll ROAD. The car drove it as though it were a track and, in the process, took out another road user.
Ring guide said:
The ring is a public road and abides by the road traffic laws of Germany. When overtaking indicate left to signify the vehicle then when its safe to do, pass. Always look to see what the vehicle in front is doing, remember most people will take the racing line, however its a public road so buses and MPVs are also allowed on the ring at the same time as you, so people may take any line into a corner. Pick your time and pass within your limits. Remember this is not a race. When been overtaken, indicate to the right and move right.
It is a public road but it is also a one way road so vehicles can take any line they like into a corner, as above, it is the vehicle overtaking that is the one that should be careful and overtake only when it is safe to do so.black-k1 said:
There was no legitimate reason for the slower vehicle to move from the right side of the road........
....other than that being how you take a corner on a race track. The ring may well be a public road but it is also a single direction track and as such, cars will start out wide, turn it tight and clip the apex on every corner if they know what they are doing. A well learned biker would know not to undertake a car heading onto a roundabout for the exact same reason as this, let alone doing it on a track. 100% biker fault I'm afraid to say. (IMO) 
thetrash said:
black-k1 said:
hornetrider said:
Rider culpable there I'm afraid, accelerated into the back of a car turning in. Maybe the car should have spotted him but that was an unnecessary risk imo
Probably not the case at the 'Ring. It's a public road and road, not track, rules apply. The bike was in the process of a legitimate overtake when the car pulled across in front of him. Cars fault - not that it will make the biker any less damaged!! The car went for the apex and was in front of the bike. The bike had a better view of what was happening and should have used a little common sense to wait and then blast past on the next straightish section. Would you have the same opinion if it was another bike in place of the BMW?Mr Noble said:
black-k1 said:
There was no legitimate reason for the slower vehicle to move from the right side of the road........
....other than that being how you take a corner on a race track. The ring may well be a public road but it is also a single direction track and as such, cars will start out wide, turn it tight and clip the apex on every corner if they know what they are doing. A well learned biker would know not to undertake a car heading onto a roundabout for the exact same reason as this, let alone doing it on a track. 100% biker fault I'm afraid to say. (IMO) looks to me as if the biker was rushing to keep with the other bike in shot
i personaly wouldnt have passed there UNLESS the car had indicated right to acknowledge that he had seen me and was staying wide for me to pass
i hope that the rider wasnt badly hurt and that he has learnt from it
y2blade said:
thetrash said:
black-k1 said:
hornetrider said:
Rider culpable there I'm afraid, accelerated into the back of a car turning in. Maybe the car should have spotted him but that was an unnecessary risk imo
Probably not the case at the 'Ring. It's a public road and road, not track, rules apply. The bike was in the process of a legitimate overtake when the car pulled across in front of him. Cars fault - not that it will make the biker any less damaged!! The car went for the apex and was in front of the bike. The bike had a better view of what was happening and should have used a little common sense to wait and then blast past on the next straightish section. Would you have the same opinion if it was another bike in place of the BMW?Mr Noble said:
black-k1 said:
There was no legitimate reason for the slower vehicle to move from the right side of the road........
....other than that being how you take a corner on a race track. The ring may well be a public road but it is also a single direction track and as such, cars will start out wide, turn it tight and clip the apex on every corner if they know what they are doing. A well learned biker would know not to undertake a car heading onto a roundabout for the exact same reason as this, let alone doing it on a track. 100% biker fault I'm afraid to say. (IMO) looks to me as if the biker was rushing to keep with the other bike in shot
i personaly wouldnt have passed there UNLESS the car had indicated right to acknowledge that he had seen me and was staying wide for me to pass
i hope that the rider wasnt badly hurt and that he has learnt from it
Check out:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/ringrules.html
In particular, rule 2.3 reads:
3) Vehicles must drive on the right, in particular when overtaken, on crests, in bends or in case of breakdown.
If the bike rider had been concentrating better he should have expected the car to do what it did but the car is in the wrong!
Edited by black-k1 on Tuesday 4th March 08:16
black-k1 said:
This is what makes the ring so dangerous - people who don’t know the rules and try and ‘pass judgement’ on what they feel should be right.
Check out:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/ringrules.html
In particular, rule 2.3 reads:
3) Vehicles must drive on the right, in particular when overtaken, on crests, in bends or in case of breakdown.
If the bike rider had been concentrating better he should have expected the car to do what it did but the car is in the wrong!
Spot on, thats exactly what make the ring dangerous.Check out:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/ringrules.html
In particular, rule 2.3 reads:
3) Vehicles must drive on the right, in particular when overtaken, on crests, in bends or in case of breakdown.
If the bike rider had been concentrating better he should have expected the car to do what it did but the car is in the wrong!
The car driver caused the accident. Simple as that.
The biker could have prevented it by anticipating what the car driver was going to do.
I bet both had stopwatches and were trying to beat a time.
Silly boys.
The car driver should be banned from the ring. I think the biker will have learned his lesson.
black-k1 said:
y2blade said:
thetrash said:
black-k1 said:
hornetrider said:
Rider culpable there I'm afraid, accelerated into the back of a car turning in. Maybe the car should have spotted him but that was an unnecessary risk imo
Probably not the case at the 'Ring. It's a public road and road, not track, rules apply. The bike was in the process of a legitimate overtake when the car pulled across in front of him. Cars fault - not that it will make the biker any less damaged!! The car went for the apex and was in front of the bike. The bike had a better view of what was happening and should have used a little common sense to wait and then blast past on the next straightish section. Would you have the same opinion if it was another bike in place of the BMW?Mr Noble said:
black-k1 said:
There was no legitimate reason for the slower vehicle to move from the right side of the road........
....other than that being how you take a corner on a race track. The ring may well be a public road but it is also a single direction track and as such, cars will start out wide, turn it tight and clip the apex on every corner if they know what they are doing. A well learned biker would know not to undertake a car heading onto a roundabout for the exact same reason as this, let alone doing it on a track. 100% biker fault I'm afraid to say. (IMO) looks to me as if the biker was rushing to keep with the other bike in shot
i personaly wouldnt have passed there UNLESS the car had indicated right to acknowledge that he had seen me and was staying wide for me to pass
i hope that the rider wasnt badly hurt and that he has learnt from it
Check out:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/ringrules.html
In particular, rule 2.3 reads:
3) Vehicles must drive on the right, in particular when overtaken, on crests, in bends or in case of breakdown.
If the bike rider had been concentrating better he should have expected the car to do what it did but the car is in the wrong!
Edited by black-k1 on Tuesday 4th March 08:16
but i still wouldnt have gone under that BMW on the way into a left hander!!!! call it gut instinct
whoever was right or wrong the biker has learnt a valuable lesson
expect the unexpected and assume everyone is out to get you
its what i was taught while learning to ride
I must admit to being very surprised by the response to this post by members of a bikers forum. A biker, who is correctly following the law ends up getting wiped out due to a car driver who is breaking the law. The only mistake the biker made is to not anticipate what the car driver might do and yet most of the responses have been along the lines of ‘the biker will know better next time’.
While I do not hold with a ‘blame culture’ I am surprised that there has only been one other response suggesting that the car driver was wrong and that the result was a very unfortunate accident for a biker.
To the biker in the video – you have my deepest sympathy mate and I hope you make sure that the car driver pays for all damage done to you and your bike.
While I do not hold with a ‘blame culture’ I am surprised that there has only been one other response suggesting that the car driver was wrong and that the result was a very unfortunate accident for a biker.
To the biker in the video – you have my deepest sympathy mate and I hope you make sure that the car driver pays for all damage done to you and your bike.
black-k1 said:
I must admit to being very surprised by the response to this post by members of a bikers forum. A biker, who is correctly following the law ends up getting wiped out due to a car driver who is breaking the law. The only mistake the biker made is to not anticipate what the car driver might do and yet most of the responses have been along the lines of ‘the biker will know better next time’.
While I do not hold with a ‘blame culture’ I am surprised that there has only been one other response suggesting that the car driver was wrong and that the result was a very unfortunate accident for a biker.
To the biker in the video – you have my deepest sympathy mate and I hope you make sure that the car driver pays for all damage done to you and your bike.
like i said earlyerWhile I do not hold with a ‘blame culture’ I am surprised that there has only been one other response suggesting that the car driver was wrong and that the result was a very unfortunate accident for a biker.
To the biker in the video – you have my deepest sympathy mate and I hope you make sure that the car driver pays for all damage done to you and your bike.
"anyone with any sense would have seen what was happening...the bike could have waited a couple of seconds then blasted the big lardy BMW on the next straight
looks to me as if the biker was rushing to keep with the other bike in shot
i personaly wouldnt have passed there UNLESS the car had indicated right to acknowledge that he had seen me and was staying wide for me to pass
i hope that the rider wasnt badly hurt and that he has learnt from it"
I drive the 'ring but I'm not keen to ride it. Bikes are very hard to spot and move around a lot more on the 'ring than they would on a normal road - so even if you do know they are there it's hard to judge what they're going to do. If the car/bike positions were reversed I would have expected the bike to turn in without seeing me so would have back off. Almost no one uses the 'ring like a road!
ALso, if I was on the bike I would rather have gone into the side/back of the car...
ALso, if I was on the bike I would rather have gone into the side/back of the car...
Under those circumstances I would expect most cars to take the racing line through most corners. It seems very foolish to me to risk your life on the assumption that they won't. It may be that the circuit rules say they're in the wrong, but that won't be any consolation to your next of kin.
GreenV8S said:
Under those circumstances I would expect most cars to take the racing line through most corners. It seems very foolish to me to risk your life on the assumption that they won't. It may be that the circuit rules say they're in the wrong, but that won't be any consolation to your next of kin.
very well said
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