Help me what bike to start with!!!
Discussion
Ive passed my theory test (waste of time imo pretty much the same as the car test) and now im about to go to mallory park for 4 days to do my DAS and get my license!! Heres my dilema though theres a fair few bikes to chose from and i dont know which one is the "best" bike im thinking the fazer? is the best bike but im not too sure.
the R1 is obviously in a diff league to the rest, esp as the rest are all nakeds to my knowledge.
what I would like to know is what would be the best way to work through these bikes and which would be the most suited for one who has not been on a bike before to spend the majority of their time learnig how to ride a bike properly? also which would be best avoided (im thinking R1) because its just way too fast. but also which are just bad bikes altogether. ive done a lil research but i felt you guys would be able to tell me exactly what i need to know u seem to know your onions on here!!! in case it makes a difference im 6ft 3.5' and slim.
the list is below for the bikes if youve had any experience i would appreciate it greatly. i also understand some of the bikes have diff engines how does this effect the bike and ride as a whole. eg the gs500 is a twin parrallel while the bandits are inline fours while the sv650 is a v twin!!! does this really make a differnce if so how is the power delivered engine sound etc. i was thinking of doing the suzukis in the order above to get some perspective but the fazer seems to be v highly rated. anhways here the list:
Kawasaki ER5, Suzuki GS500, Suzuki Bandit 600, Suzuki Bandit 600s, Suzuki SV650,Suzuki SV650s,Yamaha Diversion 600, Yamaha YZF600 and Yamaha R1!!!
i know i ask loads questions but ill give plenty of feedback of my experience for others considering this kind of bike training once its all over!!!
the R1 is obviously in a diff league to the rest, esp as the rest are all nakeds to my knowledge.
what I would like to know is what would be the best way to work through these bikes and which would be the most suited for one who has not been on a bike before to spend the majority of their time learnig how to ride a bike properly? also which would be best avoided (im thinking R1) because its just way too fast. but also which are just bad bikes altogether. ive done a lil research but i felt you guys would be able to tell me exactly what i need to know u seem to know your onions on here!!! in case it makes a difference im 6ft 3.5' and slim.
the list is below for the bikes if youve had any experience i would appreciate it greatly. i also understand some of the bikes have diff engines how does this effect the bike and ride as a whole. eg the gs500 is a twin parrallel while the bandits are inline fours while the sv650 is a v twin!!! does this really make a differnce if so how is the power delivered engine sound etc. i was thinking of doing the suzukis in the order above to get some perspective but the fazer seems to be v highly rated. anhways here the list:
Kawasaki ER5, Suzuki GS500, Suzuki Bandit 600, Suzuki Bandit 600s, Suzuki SV650,Suzuki SV650s,Yamaha Diversion 600, Yamaha YZF600 and Yamaha R1!!!
i know i ask loads questions but ill give plenty of feedback of my experience for others considering this kind of bike training once its all over!!!
What everyone will probably tell you (after asking you to read the sticky up there ^ ) is to test ride as many as you can. I have a CBR600f, have wanted one for years so its the one I opted for, I didn't even consider other bikes. I would say it very much depends on what kind of riding you will be doing. Either way, good luck with it 
Driver Rider said:
i also understand some of the bikes have diff engines how does this effect the bike and ride as a whole. eg the gs500 is a twin parrallel while the bandits are inline fours while the sv650 is a v twin!!! does this really make a differnce if so how is the power delivered engine sound etc.
Twins make more linear torque so acceleration is very predictable. The [relatively] larger cylinders of twins give them more low-down shove.Parallel twins don't have the same natural balance of a 90 degree twin.
600cc IL4s lack bottom end torque but rev for ever.
i wouldnt touch a R1 as a first bike. others here will say different but i started on an old RF600 & i know if id had a quicker bike i would have had a nasty smash a few times. of course thats probably just down to lack of self control.
the other thing that makes me say it is an R1 is so capable that you'll never get near the edges of the performance as a newbie so wont learn much on it. something slower you can trash a bit will teach you more in my view.
the other thing that makes me say it is an R1 is so capable that you'll never get near the edges of the performance as a newbie so wont learn much on it. something slower you can trash a bit will teach you more in my view.
I'm pretty much in the same boat. Passed the practical test on Monday morning.
Check insurance costs?
I've not done it properly yet but I did a quick check on eBike as an example.
GXR600R K7 comes in at £1100 fully comp.
31 year old in Edinburgh, garaged. No motorcycle no claims.
I'm more likely to test and go for, 600cc Bandits, Hornets, Fazers, SV, Street Triples, but the point being I'll be checking I can cope with the insurance.
I could keep the 125 insured until the 1 Sept for 1 year no claims though. But damned they are s
t to get back on after even a basic CB500.
Check insurance costs?
I've not done it properly yet but I did a quick check on eBike as an example.
GXR600R K7 comes in at £1100 fully comp.
31 year old in Edinburgh, garaged. No motorcycle no claims.
I'm more likely to test and go for, 600cc Bandits, Hornets, Fazers, SV, Street Triples, but the point being I'll be checking I can cope with the insurance.
I could keep the 125 insured until the 1 Sept for 1 year no claims though. But damned they are s
t to get back on after even a basic CB500.Edited by Don Veloci on Thursday 13th March 17:05
go older so its 3rd party then. i passed my DAS last january & got a RF600 on tpf&t for £167. the bike cost me £500 & i part ex'd it 20k & 9months later for £400.
i thought it was ideal as if i killed it i didnt loose much & it did everything i needed including touring scotland etc. it went lands end & john o groats etc
i thought it was ideal as if i killed it i didnt loose much & it did everything i needed including touring scotland etc. it went lands end & john o groats etc
Hooli said:
go older so its 3rd party then. i passed my DAS last january & got a RF600 on tpf&t for £167. the bike cost me £500 & i part ex'd it 20k & 9months later for £400.
i thought it was ideal as if i killed it i didnt loose much & it did everything i needed including touring scotland etc. it went lands end & john o groats etc
Sound advice. It is on my mind to maybe go down the route of a cheap old thing on tpft for a couple of years.i thought it was ideal as if i killed it i didnt loose much & it did everything i needed including touring scotland etc. it went lands end & john o groats etc
the other main reason i went older & cheaper was i didnt know what sort of bike i wanted. i knew what i liked but didnt know what i liked riding. if id gone out & spent a load on finance id still be stuck with a faired sports/sports tourer that i wasnt happy with. as it is i chopped the cheapo in for a nice shiney gsx1400 & i love it.
Driver Rider said:
thanks guys ive learnt a lil from this tho a ducati is out of the question. will prob start with something a lil older so that i can go tpft. and save some £. thanks guys!!
its the best plan id say. i didnt really know what sort of bike id want, i knew what i liked but not what i liked riding obviously. what ive got & totally happy with isnt what id have got right after my DAS before i knew better.Out of all of those I would say either the Bandit 600, Fazer 600 or Yam YZF600... having been riding myself since last June I started off with an unfaired Bandit 600 to learn my roadcraft on...
Did nearly 6,000 miles on it in six months and I learnt alot on it... I then traded it in for a Yamaha YZF600R thats in a completely different league handling and performance wise but my time on the Bandit helped me a lot ...
Initially I would go for something unfaired... as you WILL damage it some how... so keep it cheap and cheerful and learn.
Did nearly 6,000 miles on it in six months and I learnt alot on it... I then traded it in for a Yamaha YZF600R thats in a completely different league handling and performance wise but my time on the Bandit helped me a lot ...
Initially I would go for something unfaired... as you WILL damage it some how... so keep it cheap and cheerful and learn.
I come from the "old school" where it went - 250, 350, 500, 750, 1100.
The idea of passing your test and just getting on an R1 scares the hell out of me (as in, I could be coming the other way when you accidentally wind it on too much and I end up involved in your own private accident).
My view is that 125s are kinda dangerous to the rider as you can't keep up with motorway traffic speeds - 250s struggle too (yep the screaming strokers will do it, until they hit a hill and a headwind etc). Once you're into the 400cc+ range you're as quick / quicker than most things on the road.
As you've just passed your test, you'll not be going out to get your dream bike now, so think of your next bike as an extension of the learning experience. You want a bike that will help you improve your biking skills (both safety and how to get round corners quick) that offers the realistic prospect of you getting to the stage where the bike will start becoming the limiting factor. Once you are putting the bike into bends and feel the frame flexing underneath you / are finding the bike can't actually work as fast as your mind does etc, then its time to move up again.
Start off with a bike that is (with respect) so far ahead of your abilities and you'll never learn much more about riding. The safety thing will come just from experience but the "safe and quick" guys only got that way by having to ride bikes to the limit of what the bike could do. 25+ years riding and I don't think (wrong - I konw) I couldn't safely push an R1 to its limits on real roads. Still learning me.
HTH,
Dave
The idea of passing your test and just getting on an R1 scares the hell out of me (as in, I could be coming the other way when you accidentally wind it on too much and I end up involved in your own private accident).
My view is that 125s are kinda dangerous to the rider as you can't keep up with motorway traffic speeds - 250s struggle too (yep the screaming strokers will do it, until they hit a hill and a headwind etc). Once you're into the 400cc+ range you're as quick / quicker than most things on the road.
As you've just passed your test, you'll not be going out to get your dream bike now, so think of your next bike as an extension of the learning experience. You want a bike that will help you improve your biking skills (both safety and how to get round corners quick) that offers the realistic prospect of you getting to the stage where the bike will start becoming the limiting factor. Once you are putting the bike into bends and feel the frame flexing underneath you / are finding the bike can't actually work as fast as your mind does etc, then its time to move up again.
Start off with a bike that is (with respect) so far ahead of your abilities and you'll never learn much more about riding. The safety thing will come just from experience but the "safe and quick" guys only got that way by having to ride bikes to the limit of what the bike could do. 25+ years riding and I don't think (wrong - I konw) I couldn't safely push an R1 to its limits on real roads. Still learning me.
HTH,
Dave
Buelligan 984 said:
I come from the "old school" where it went - 250, 350, 500, 750, 1100.
The idea of passing your test and just getting on an R1 scares the hell out of me (as in, I could be coming the other way when you accidentally wind it on too much and I end up involved in your own private accident).
My view is that 125s are kinda dangerous to the rider as you can't keep up with motorway traffic speeds - 250s struggle too (yep the screaming strokers will do it, until they hit a hill and a headwind etc). Once you're into the 400cc+ range you're as quick / quicker than most things on the road.
As you've just passed your test, you'll not be going out to get your dream bike now, so think of your next bike as an extension of the learning experience. You want a bike that will help you improve your biking skills (both safety and how to get round corners quick) that offers the realistic prospect of you getting to the stage where the bike will start becoming the limiting factor. Once you are putting the bike into bends and feel the frame flexing underneath you / are finding the bike can't actually work as fast as your mind does etc, then its time to move up again.
Start off with a bike that is (with respect) so far ahead of your abilities and you'll never learn much more about riding. The safety thing will come just from experience but the "safe and quick" guys only got that way by having to ride bikes to the limit of what the bike could do. 25+ years riding and I don't think (wrong - I konw) I couldn't safely push an R1 to its limits on real roads. Still learning me.
HTH,
Dave
Good answer - you're dead right. And not dead, which is probably how you (and me) would be if we'd started on an R1. You can learn a lot on a slow bike, and most bikes ain't really slow!The idea of passing your test and just getting on an R1 scares the hell out of me (as in, I could be coming the other way when you accidentally wind it on too much and I end up involved in your own private accident).
My view is that 125s are kinda dangerous to the rider as you can't keep up with motorway traffic speeds - 250s struggle too (yep the screaming strokers will do it, until they hit a hill and a headwind etc). Once you're into the 400cc+ range you're as quick / quicker than most things on the road.
As you've just passed your test, you'll not be going out to get your dream bike now, so think of your next bike as an extension of the learning experience. You want a bike that will help you improve your biking skills (both safety and how to get round corners quick) that offers the realistic prospect of you getting to the stage where the bike will start becoming the limiting factor. Once you are putting the bike into bends and feel the frame flexing underneath you / are finding the bike can't actually work as fast as your mind does etc, then its time to move up again.
Start off with a bike that is (with respect) so far ahead of your abilities and you'll never learn much more about riding. The safety thing will come just from experience but the "safe and quick" guys only got that way by having to ride bikes to the limit of what the bike could do. 25+ years riding and I don't think (wrong - I konw) I couldn't safely push an R1 to its limits on real roads. Still learning me.
HTH,
Dave
ER5's, CB500's, Hornets or slower would be my choice. You can always trade up, but it's harder to trade down.
I also came up the ‘increasing cc’ route (50cc, 250cc, 400cc, 500cc, 850cc, 1000cc) and rode the 50 and 250 on L plates. I don’t buy this ‘if you have a powerful and capable bike, you’ll kill yourself’ approach. As soon as I was capable of riding a bike near to it’s limitations rather than mine, I moved up to a more capable bike. Thus, I was rarely ever using all the capabilities of the bike that I had. As soon as you are not using some of the bikes capabilities it doesn’t matter how much of those capabilities you are not using.
I have known many people over the last 15 to 20 years who have passed their test and went straight onto large cc, more capable bikes. None of them have ended up in any form of accident that was related to the performance/capability of their bikes. There as been a couple of accidents in town where cars have pulled out in front of them and there have been two front end wash outs due to over zealous braking in the wet but all of these were at less than 40mph and thus the capacity of the bike made no difference.
A few years ago when the EU was previously talking about bringing in the 100bhp limit for bikes there was a test commissioned (in Holland I think) which proved that there was no link between accident rates and bhp but that accidents, regardless of the power of the bike, were related to the riders training and experience.
The key for any rider, new or experienced, is to understand your own limitations. If the rider does not get a grasp of this then they will be a danger to themselves and to others, regardless of the capacity of the bike they are on. You can make a positive change to those limitations riding lots of miles in lots of different conditions and by getting advanced training. (The training options is a whole lot quicker and will ensure you pick up as few bad habits as possible thus that’s what I would recommend.)
I have been riding for 30 years and have ridden all sorts of bikes in all sorts of conditions. While I have never gotten my knee down on the road I have worn away a fair few sets of ‘hero blobs’ thus I don’t consider myself a slow rider. I have passed several advanced training courses and have managed 25 years and many miles with the only accident being a front end wash out on a damp cold road on a new set of tyres. With all of that I can categorically say that there is no way I could safely push an R1 to its limits on real roads.
Understand your limitations and the fact that you will be far less capable than the bike and buy what you are happy with. Ride within your (not the bikes) capabilities.
Ride safe and enjoy.
I have known many people over the last 15 to 20 years who have passed their test and went straight onto large cc, more capable bikes. None of them have ended up in any form of accident that was related to the performance/capability of their bikes. There as been a couple of accidents in town where cars have pulled out in front of them and there have been two front end wash outs due to over zealous braking in the wet but all of these were at less than 40mph and thus the capacity of the bike made no difference.
A few years ago when the EU was previously talking about bringing in the 100bhp limit for bikes there was a test commissioned (in Holland I think) which proved that there was no link between accident rates and bhp but that accidents, regardless of the power of the bike, were related to the riders training and experience.
The key for any rider, new or experienced, is to understand your own limitations. If the rider does not get a grasp of this then they will be a danger to themselves and to others, regardless of the capacity of the bike they are on. You can make a positive change to those limitations riding lots of miles in lots of different conditions and by getting advanced training. (The training options is a whole lot quicker and will ensure you pick up as few bad habits as possible thus that’s what I would recommend.)
I have been riding for 30 years and have ridden all sorts of bikes in all sorts of conditions. While I have never gotten my knee down on the road I have worn away a fair few sets of ‘hero blobs’ thus I don’t consider myself a slow rider. I have passed several advanced training courses and have managed 25 years and many miles with the only accident being a front end wash out on a damp cold road on a new set of tyres. With all of that I can categorically say that there is no way I could safely push an R1 to its limits on real roads.
Understand your limitations and the fact that you will be far less capable than the bike and buy what you are happy with. Ride within your (not the bikes) capabilities.
Ride safe and enjoy.
I plan upon getting a second hand CBR600F or Suzuki SV650S after I have passed. Ideal to get some experience on and a years' NCB before something newer.
This way, I hopefully won't get caned on insurance too much and if I do drop the bike, at least it isn't a brand spanking new one! After a year, I'll probably move to something like a GSXR-600.
That's the plan at the moment, anyhow!
This way, I hopefully won't get caned on insurance too much and if I do drop the bike, at least it isn't a brand spanking new one! After a year, I'll probably move to something like a GSXR-600.
That's the plan at the moment, anyhow!
My first bike after l plates i think will be a hyusong gt650r or whateva there called same engine as the sv but 5 more bhp heavier though, more sportier riding position, mcn really rated this bike on wednesday saying that there now pushing out real decent bikes at decent prices, 4k new!
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