Talk me through slow riding

[Sossige]

Hi all -

I have a road only session part of my CBT booked up for later this week. I have made massive progress recently, but the thing that needs smoothing off is my slow speed riding.

At times, I can do it at the drop of a hat. Other times it becomes more difficult, in particular when I am slow riding after decreasing speed. I seem to be able to slow ride from standstill more easily, but when I turning into some junctions, I go in a little hot

I've been taught to ride with the clutch at bite point, revs constant and ride against the rear brake, using only the rear brake to control the bike speed. I need to get out of letting the revs drop as well as wanting to use more rear brake when needing to slow down further.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts people have about slow speed riding - what worked best for you when learning it and how do you handle slow speed riding after reducing speed from normal "cruising" speed? How do you get the bite point in this scenario?

It may be that I am thinking about things too much and need to "just do it"...

Thanks in advance....

Edited by Sossige on Monday 31st March 16:11

[Busamav]

Theres no doubt that the clutch and rear brake are the tools to be using.

Just do it , I honestly dont think you can be taught it , just practice it , along with the odd body swerve

[hornetrider]

Sossige said:

It may be that I am thinking about things too much and need to "just do it"...

Er, yup!

Accelerating or decelerating are simple. Constant low speed I find 2nd gear is good, no real need to slip clutch but hold it near the biting point yeah. Its easier to do than it is to explain!

[amare32]

I've been taught never to touch the front brake below 15mph so drag the back brake as you're slipping the clutch doing any slow manoeuvre. It works on whatever bike you're riding.

When I was running the CG125 for 3 months, I just went to an empty industrial car parks and practice as much as possible, about 3/4 times a week.

[black-k1]

The temptation is to look at the tarmac just ahead of the front wheel - don't. Look as far ahead (to the horizon) as you can. This will help your balance and allow you to reduce the speed while still in control.

[SplatSpeed]

the more revs the better the gyroscopic effect

its a ballencing act between the three but just keep revs high

it's not your clutch and concentrate on clutch and brake balance

get throttle locked in one pesitsion jam your hand left and lock it there against the bars

to slow down try to reduce the clutch to speed up let it out slightly

slight drag from the brake

but most of all listern to the instructor

[Hyperion]

Just go to a deserted car park and practice doing figure of eights as tight as possible. Eventually you'll have an eureka moment and you'll just 'get it'.
All I know is, accelerating will lift the bike back up if you think it's leaning too sharply and using the back brake works best.

[711]

For years I struggled with slow control, mostly due to lack of confidence and a couple of drops in my early days.

I did a slow control course with Kevin Williams, who's got some top tips on slow control here:

http://www.survivalskills.clara.net/riding_skills_...

I'm not saying those techniques are the only way, but I've used those and my slow control is better than it's been for a while.

Doing oodles of practice is OK providing you know what it is that you're supposed to be practicing. Perhaps you might get better through luck or whatever other process is at work that enable you to "just get it". However, if you've got some specific techniques in mind then you've got a better chance of "getting it" sooner.

The briefest summary of the technique I'm now using is:

1. Get clutch to biting point; i.e. you've got some drive but sharp movements of the throttle will not have the bike lurching either forwards or backwards.
2. Get up a little bit of speed, if the bike isn't moving it WILL fall over
3. Control speed gently with the rear brake, but if you're dragging the brake hard all the time you've probably got too much clutch/throttle going on.
4. Keep your head up and look where you want to go. I discovered recently that if you look at the floor, that's exactly where you go. Please don't ask me how I know this
5. Relax, if your arms are all tense you will physically stop yourself from being able to steer the bike 'cause your arms lock out and you end up fighting yourself.
6. Lean your body AWAY from the bike as the bike tips into the turn, and rotate your upper body into the turn so that it's still as "square" as possible to the handlebars. That way, you are not doing some kind of bizzare wrist contortion just to try and stay in touch with the controls.
7. Practice in a car park where you can forget about traffic or bashing the opposite curb. This will reduce stress, and mean that you can concentrate on feeling for the correct technique. i.e. all else being equal you'll be less likely to fall off in the car park, and thus save your confidence and your bike from a bashing.
8. It's all IMHO; if someone else has a better way then I'm all

I still find slow control on heavy bikes a bit scary, but the above techniques have been a godsend to my riding. It's not just stuff like u-turns - being able to slow control into the right turn out of the slippy petrol station forecourt or accurately filter in traffic comes down to having good skills like this, so it's well worth putting some energy into getting it right.

I just wish I'd faced up to this years before I did

Edited by 711 on Monday 31st March 18:01

[Busamav]

or ,

you should have spent more time on your push bike as a kid learning balance and control

[711]

Busamav said:

or ,

you should have spent more time on your push bike as a kid learning balance and control

I'm sure that helps, but I don't remember ever riding a push bike that weighed 200 kilos

[fergus]

SplatSpeed said:

the more revs the better the gyroscopic effect

its a ballencing act between the three but just keep revs high

it's not your clutch and concentrate on clutch and brake balance

get throttle locked in one pesitsion jam your hand left and lock it there against the bars

to slow down try to reduce the clutch to speed up let it out slightly

slight drag from the brake

but most of all listern to the instructor

I don't think the gyroscopic argument is either accurate or relevant. You keep the revs up to make dragging the clutch easier and less likely to stall the engine.

[Hooli]

i couldnt get the hang of riding on the clutch with fixed revs on a 125. it totally defeated me, not sure if it was poor clutch control of just that being a little engine the slightest clutch movement makes a hell of a difference to the revs.
I found it easier to get the clutch about right & blip the throttle when i needed more power. after a few days on the bike (i got a 125 between CBT & DAS) i started to use the clutch more. nowdays i'll ride about on just the clutch when im going really slow, but i am on a tourqey 1400 so it doesnt tend to stall like a 125 would.

[Busamav]

711 said:

Busamav said:

or ,

you should have spent more time on your push bike as a kid learning balance and control

I'm sure that helps, but I don't remember ever riding a push bike that weighed 200 kilos

Frames from gas barrel I tell you , Lads nowadays dont they are born

[Buelligan 984]

A few observations from an ex-instructor.

Slow-riding is both a skill and an art. As people have said, practice,practice, practice.

I'm not sure where this "don't adjust the throttle position" idea came from. Its one of the tools you have available to control the bike (along with the clutch and rear brake) and you should use all three in conjunction. Keeping a little revs on the whole time helps prevent the enging bogging down and stalling, but its not a case of constant throttle.

As for the clutch, you don't simply hold the clutch at the bite point, you let it out a tiny bit to add power, dip it a bit to remove power.

You don't want to be on the rear brake the whole time for too long, or you'll start cooking pads / disc. Again, its on and off as and when you need to adjust speed.

The key thing is to do everything smoothly - small gentle movements of all controls - anything jerky and it all starts going wrong (because you tend to over-compensate and the whole thing just snowballs).

As for slow-speed junctions etc, the trick is to get everything done before the junction: if you slow down a bit too much on the approach, you can speed up a bit, but if you've arrived going to fast, its too late to do anything about it.

Just my views,

Dave

[SplatSpeed]

fergus said:

SplatSpeed said:

the more revs the better the gyroscopic effect

its a ballencing act between the three but just keep revs high

it's not your clutch and concentrate on clutch and brake balance

get throttle locked in one pesitsion jam your hand left and lock it there against the bars

to slow down try to reduce the clutch to speed up let it out slightly

slight drag from the brake

but most of all listern to the instructor

I don't think the gyroscopic argument is either accurate or relevant. You keep the revs up to make dragging the clutch easier and less likely to stall the engine.

tell my instructor that

plus on my fj1200 it works

[UpTheIron]

IMHO, slow speed riding is much harder on a 125 than on a bigger bike.

- Try more revs and use the clutch to feed power in / out
- Focus on where you are going, not the tarmac in front of you

I struggled at first and still do to some extent when I'm not out on the road...as soon as I'm in traffic it just comes naturally.

[uriel]

Hyperion said:

All I know is, accelerating will lift the bike back up if you think it's leaning too sharply and using the back brake works best.

This was the thing that I had to get my head around most when slow riding through maneuvers and particularly the U-turn. I knew it intelectually, but it wasn't until I'd developed the ability to do it instinctively that I felt I'd really cracked it. When making tight turns and as soon as I'd feel that I was losing balance my natural reaction was always to mildly panic, think about dropping it and my foot would go down. Once I got to the point where as soon as I felt the balance going I would, without thinking, either increase the revs, let out the clutch some more, come off the back brake or some combination of all three, I never had problems again.

Regarding fixed revs/clutch and only using the rear brake, I think it's advised just because for a learner, it's easier to set those controls then forget about them, focussing all attention onto only one. Once you're up and running then sure, all 3 will be used fluidly together. It's just like when you learn to drive and when pulling away the instructor tells you to hold the car at a fixed rpm and then once that's set, begin to engage the clutch. Nobody who can drive would do that.

[y2blade]

amare32 said:

I've been taught never to touch the front brake below 15mph so drag the back brake as you're slipping the clutch doing any slow manoeuvre. It works on whatever bike you're riding.

+1

just practise

[Rubin215]

amare32 said:

I've been taught never to touch the front brake below 15mph so drag the back brake as you're slipping the clutch doing any slow manoeuvre. It works on whatever bike you're riding.

I'm not a big fan of the "not below 15 mph" rule.
I do agree that the front brake is not your friend during u turns, but I have seen too many people get hung up on this concept that the front brake will somehow throw them over the front or chop their nuts off below a certain speed.

I have previously seen riders who have had this hammered into them through their training taking their hand off the front brake completely while slowing down for a stop junction, only to overshoot and stop on the main carriageway!
Likewise getting caught out in town traffic when the car ahead slows suddenly and the rider stamped the back but ignored the front so ended up grazing the bumper of the car ahead; both brakes together would have stopped him well short.

Either brake, used incorrectly, can be dangerous; it needs correct tuition and practise to know when and how to use them, not hard and fast rules.
Not wanting to get drawn into long arguments, but too many instructors seem to teach their own personal "rules" instead of common sense and best practise.

Buelligan 984 said:

A few observations from an ex-instructor.

Slow-riding is both a skill and an art. As people have said, practice,practice, practice.

I'm not sure where this "don't adjust the throttle position" idea came from. Its one of the tools you have available to control the bike (along with the clutch and rear brake) and you should use all three in conjunction. Keeping a little revs on the whole time helps prevent the enging bogging down and stalling, but its not a case of constant throttle.

As for the clutch, you don't simply hold the clutch at the bite point, you let it out a tiny bit to add power, dip it a bit to remove power.

You don't want to be on the rear brake the whole time for too long, or you'll start cooking pads / disc. Again, its on and off as and when you need to adjust speed.

The key thing is to do everything smoothly - small gentle movements of all controls - anything jerky and it all starts going wrong (because you tend to over-compensate and the whole thing just snowballs).

As for slow-speed junctions etc, the trick is to get everything done before the junction: if you slow down a bit too much on the approach, you can speed up a bit, but if you've arrived going to fast, its too late to do anything about it.

Just my views,

Dave

Yup, that's what I go for too.
The emphasis on any adjustments is "think metric." Go millimetres, not inches.

At junctions I like students down to 1st gear and onto slow control by about 10 - 12 metres back (2nd last hazard warning line at a give way) as it gives them more time for planning and observations (and also "plan B" if they don't like what they see), but if someone can come from hard on the brakes to pulling away smoothly in the last metre I won't hold them back (as long as they're safe!).

Edited by Rubin215 on Tuesday 1st April 09:19

[sprinter885]

1. You start off slow.
2. You go slower.
3. You fall over.
4. You stop.

Think that just about covers it.......