Sunday's riding - newbie thread
Discussion
Passed a month ago, so if I sound like a newbie it's cos I am 
Did about 130 miles yesterday - B roads and M4 mostly :
1) It's hard to make progress on B roads due to blind bends, crap road surfaces, tar banding, stones/gravel on every decent corner. No kidding, I could cover ground faster in my car.
2) Motorways are hard work on a naked bike, especially when there's a keen wind blowing. The little bubble-screen fitted on my bike is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
3) It's true - people really do try to kill you. One dozy cow started pulling out across my path - she didn't even look my way! Luckily the old rule about anticipation worked and I pulled-up in good time and gave her a good eyeballing. In my limited experience it's not difficult to spot the ones that'll try to kill you.
4) Riding into a low sun is dodgy as hell.
5) Biker nods do feel good. Not sure, but I could have sworn some bikers were even doing it on the motorway (ie. across 6 lanes of traffic). Not ready for that myself - at 70-80 I'm hanging on to the bars for dear life
I'm definitely enjoying the bike, but I can see trackdays being a necessity if I'm ever going to get cornering speeds up. It just feels too dodgy on the road - at least down here in the overcrowded south-east. Lack of experience maybe.
What did other newbies learn this weekend?
Did about 130 miles yesterday - B roads and M4 mostly :
1) It's hard to make progress on B roads due to blind bends, crap road surfaces, tar banding, stones/gravel on every decent corner. No kidding, I could cover ground faster in my car.
2) Motorways are hard work on a naked bike, especially when there's a keen wind blowing. The little bubble-screen fitted on my bike is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
3) It's true - people really do try to kill you. One dozy cow started pulling out across my path - she didn't even look my way! Luckily the old rule about anticipation worked and I pulled-up in good time and gave her a good eyeballing. In my limited experience it's not difficult to spot the ones that'll try to kill you.
4) Riding into a low sun is dodgy as hell.
5) Biker nods do feel good. Not sure, but I could have sworn some bikers were even doing it on the motorway (ie. across 6 lanes of traffic). Not ready for that myself - at 70-80 I'm hanging on to the bars for dear life
I'm definitely enjoying the bike, but I can see trackdays being a necessity if I'm ever going to get cornering speeds up. It just feels too dodgy on the road - at least down here in the overcrowded south-east. Lack of experience maybe.
What did other newbies learn this weekend?
Edited by surfsofa on Monday 30th June 09:55
Edited by surfsofa on Monday 30th June 09:56
I learnt this weekend that no matter how many signs you put up about people takin a nap if they're tired they still dont.
I was on the way to Exeter on saturday and some guy drifted from the middle lane so he was half wa in lane 3 and half way in lane 2.
I beeped my horn as he did this to give him notice that i was about to overtake and he didnt even realise.
He just drifted back to where he came from!
I was on the way to Exeter on saturday and some guy drifted from the middle lane so he was half wa in lane 3 and half way in lane 2.
I beeped my horn as he did this to give him notice that i was about to overtake and he didnt even realise.
He just drifted back to where he came from!
Sounds like you need some training - I don't think a track day is the way forward though. Some sort of school is in order.
That's why I reckon most riders give up - simply because of all the points you listed, doesn't sound much fun! So, get yourself some training ASAP if you can afford it. Once you understand how to sit on the bike, how to steer, where to position your head / shoulders in a corner you'll be away.
That's why I reckon most riders give up - simply because of all the points you listed, doesn't sound much fun! So, get yourself some training ASAP if you can afford it. Once you understand how to sit on the bike, how to steer, where to position your head / shoulders in a corner you'll be away.
surfsofa said:
Passed a month ago, so if I sound like a newbie it's cos I am
...
I'm definitely enjoying the bike, but I can see trackdays being a necessity if I'm ever going to get cornering speeds up. It just feels too dodgy on the road - at least down here in the overcrowded south-east. Lack of experience maybe.
I think your expectations are unreasonable and what your experiencing is perfectly normal. Patience... miles-covered... etc....
I'm definitely enjoying the bike, but I can see trackdays being a necessity if I'm ever going to get cornering speeds up. It just feels too dodgy on the road - at least down here in the overcrowded south-east. Lack of experience maybe.
Hi Simon -
I'm going through the same mate - I dawdle around roundabouts and am taking bends slower than I could in a car.
I'm sure that it will come, bit by bit. Main thing is to keep riding and keep gaining experience.
I'll also be taking further training - did your riding school not suggest any post test training? I'm going to be taking some with my DAS instructor once I've got a few more miles under my tyres, perhaps we could double up if you like?
I'm going through the same mate - I dawdle around roundabouts and am taking bends slower than I could in a car.
I'm sure that it will come, bit by bit. Main thing is to keep riding and keep gaining experience.
I'll also be taking further training - did your riding school not suggest any post test training? I'm going to be taking some with my DAS instructor once I've got a few more miles under my tyres, perhaps we could double up if you like?
You might think im crazy posting this.
But i was like you guys - upright cornering at like 20mph!
Watch a video by MCN on Youtube its titled getting your knee down.
Now i'm not saying you shouold all go out and try to get your knee down, but the basic characteristics of cornering are covered.
I watched it and its improved my confidence of cornering 10 fold its a very useful video.
It was posted in another thread on here too!
But i was like you guys - upright cornering at like 20mph!
Watch a video by MCN on Youtube its titled getting your knee down.
Now i'm not saying you shouold all go out and try to get your knee down, but the basic characteristics of cornering are covered.
I watched it and its improved my confidence of cornering 10 fold its a very useful video.
It was posted in another thread on here too!
I put a few hundred miles on the bike this weekend and discovered the following:
o The front brake can be used going round a corner but it leads to a very unstable bike. (too fast into a tight right, gently on the front brake looked as far up the road as possible). Won't be trying it again in a hurry.
o The bike brakes are much stronger than I initially gave them credit for after doing some 70 - 0 hard (emergency) braking on an empty stretch of road. (I recommend this to any new biker as you'll be far more confident on the brakes)
o Milton Keynes is fun on a bike
o Hitting Road kill is unpleasant in a car... its far worse on a bike!
o Low sun is a bugger to ride in.
o The front brake can be used going round a corner but it leads to a very unstable bike. (too fast into a tight right, gently on the front brake looked as far up the road as possible). Won't be trying it again in a hurry.
o The bike brakes are much stronger than I initially gave them credit for after doing some 70 - 0 hard (emergency) braking on an empty stretch of road. (I recommend this to any new biker as you'll be far more confident on the brakes)
o Milton Keynes is fun on a bike
o Hitting Road kill is unpleasant in a car... its far worse on a bike!
o Low sun is a bugger to ride in.
surfsofa said:
Stuff
Going on a Bikesafe course will sort out a lot of your problems...specifically road positioning etc. The only reason you think a car would be faster through the bends is because you feel safer...if you can't see round a bend on a bike, then you definitely cant see round it in a car!
See my thread entitled 'Knee down on a tourer' for some excellent tips.
With regards to the person pulling out in front of you - My rule is to be surprised when they DON'T pull out in front of you!
shot2bits said:
Sounds like you need some training - I don't think a track day is the way forward though. Some sort of school is in order.
That's why I reckon most riders give up - simply because of all the points you listed, doesn't sound much fun! So, get yourself some training ASAP if you can afford it. Once you understand how to sit on the bike, how to steer, where to position your head / shoulders in a corner you'll be away.
Listen to this man!!!That's why I reckon most riders give up - simply because of all the points you listed, doesn't sound much fun! So, get yourself some training ASAP if you can afford it. Once you understand how to sit on the bike, how to steer, where to position your head / shoulders in a corner you'll be away.
I'd hoin an IAM school or similar before even thinking of track days. If you're uncomfortable now, a track day will make it even worse. It's just a case of getting the miles under your belt whilst being shown the rights and wrongs. The DAS teaches tyou to pass a test, not to ride a bike properly.
Good luck!
I'm a newbie too, Bikesafe last week helped loads, also yesterday I went on a club run as a pillion with one of the most experienced riders.
It was a really good experience, watching the other club members, anticipating Tim's moves (mentally), feeling his control and speed on corners. I'd recommend it if you know anyone
It was a really good experience, watching the other club members, anticipating Tim's moves (mentally), feeling his control and speed on corners. I'd recommend it if you know anyone
surfsofa said:
1) It's hard to make progress on B roads due to blind bends, crap road surfaces, tar banding, stones/gravel on every decent corner. No kidding, I could cover ground faster in my car.
made me chuckle. reminded me of myself several months ago after i passed. Still learning, but doing a 100mile commute everyday certiainly helps. i absolutely agree about the b roads. there are some lovely b roads in the leicester area but i just don't feel confident riding on them. Visibility is never great due to the hedges, you're never sure of what's going to be on the road an i'm still convinced i'm riding slower than in the car-but i'm having a hell of a lot more fun Edited by surfsofa on Monday 30th June 09:56
leaning whilst cornering will come with time. i prefer long sweeping bends at about 50ish for getting the bike cranked over. never fails to put a grin on my face.
surfsofa said:
Passed a month ago, so if I sound like a newbie it's cos I am
Did about 130 miles yesterday - B roads and M4 mostly :
1) It's hard to make progress on B roads due to blind bends, crap road surfaces, tar banding, stones/gravel on every decent corner. No kidding, I could cover ground faster in my car.
2) Motorways are hard work on a naked bike, especially when there's a keen wind blowing. The little bubble-screen fitted on my bike is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
3) It's true - people really do try to kill you. One dozy cow started pulling out across my path - she didn't even look my way! Luckily the old rule about anticipation worked and I pulled-up in good time and gave her a good eyeballing. In my limited experience it's not difficult to spot the ones that'll try to kill you.
4) Riding into a low sun is dodgy as hell.
5) Biker nods do feel good. Not sure, but I could have sworn some bikers were even doing it on the motorway (ie. across 6 lanes of traffic). Not ready for that myself - at 70-80 I'm hanging on to the bars for dear life
I'm definitely enjoying the bike, but I can see trackdays being a necessity if I'm ever going to get cornering speeds up. It just feels too dodgy on the road - at least down here in the overcrowded south-east. Lack of experience maybe.
1) Yes. Get pleasure from riding within your limits and anticipating all the unseen hazards.Did about 130 miles yesterday - B roads and M4 mostly :
1) It's hard to make progress on B roads due to blind bends, crap road surfaces, tar banding, stones/gravel on every decent corner. No kidding, I could cover ground faster in my car.
2) Motorways are hard work on a naked bike, especially when there's a keen wind blowing. The little bubble-screen fitted on my bike is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
3) It's true - people really do try to kill you. One dozy cow started pulling out across my path - she didn't even look my way! Luckily the old rule about anticipation worked and I pulled-up in good time and gave her a good eyeballing. In my limited experience it's not difficult to spot the ones that'll try to kill you.
4) Riding into a low sun is dodgy as hell.
5) Biker nods do feel good. Not sure, but I could have sworn some bikers were even doing it on the motorway (ie. across 6 lanes of traffic). Not ready for that myself - at 70-80 I'm hanging on to the bars for dear life
I'm definitely enjoying the bike, but I can see trackdays being a necessity if I'm ever going to get cornering speeds up. It just feels too dodgy on the road - at least down here in the overcrowded south-east. Lack of experience maybe.
2) Yes. But...... yer being a big girls blouse!
3) Yes. A N T I C I P A T I O N
4) Yes. Riding away from it is worse: no one can see you!
5) Yes. Oh yes! [/churchill]
Forget the trackdays, you need miles and maybe some advanced training like IAM or RoSPA. Start thinking about how traffic can see you and how you can make yourself more visible; it's actually as important, if not more, than you seeing them. Learn how a bike handles, actively use countersteering and learn to ride through a corner with gentle acceleration.
Most importantly, get some miles on and RELAX! It's far more fun.
ruttager said:
I put a few hundred miles on the bike this weekend and discovered the following:
o The front brake can be used going round a corner but it leads to a very unstable bike. (too fast into a tight right, gently on the front brake looked as far up the road as possible). Won't be trying it again in a hurry.
o The bike brakes are much stronger than I initially gave them credit for after doing some 70 - 0 hard (emergency) braking on an empty stretch of road. (I recommend this to any new biker as you'll be far more confident on the brakes)
o Milton Keynes is fun on a bike
o Hitting Road kill is unpleasant in a car... its far worse on a bike!
o Low sun is a bugger to ride in.
1) Depends on the bike, but mostly on the rider. You should be bracing yourself on the tank when braking, NOT the bars. Takes some practice, but I believe most modern bikes will steer adequately on the brakes. Usually you find when you brake you stiffen your arms and it straightens the bars, which is the reason the handling goes to hell.o The front brake can be used going round a corner but it leads to a very unstable bike. (too fast into a tight right, gently on the front brake looked as far up the road as possible). Won't be trying it again in a hurry.
o The bike brakes are much stronger than I initially gave them credit for after doing some 70 - 0 hard (emergency) braking on an empty stretch of road. (I recommend this to any new biker as you'll be far more confident on the brakes)
o Milton Keynes is fun on a bike
o Hitting Road kill is unpleasant in a car... its far worse on a bike!
o Low sun is a bugger to ride in.
2) Yup, twin discs are awesome. You can even practice locking the front if you think you're the next superbike sensation.
4) Eeeeeew!
Good thread. Its like a newbies confessional.
Well father now for my sins.......
As a relative newb (I'm a weekend biker but dont get much free time to ride) I can sympathise with all the thoughts here and its helpful to hear other peoples comments and feedback.
My two penneth
1. Side winds can be a bugger - found myself slowing right down on exposed dual carriageway at the weekend.
2. Insect hits - a nightmare - dont know how these hardened types wear open faced helmets. Have had a bee blow inside my visor already in my limited riding career. Not much fun at 60.
3. Find steep down hill corners the most tricky to handle esp when you're having to shift the weight of the bike around under braking.
4. I've given up being a straightline hero and started trying to concentrate on how to ride properly.
5. Bikes lock their brakes quite easily. Not the best thing to learn when you're overtaking at 60 and someone pulls out of a side turning.
Best tip I have picked up so far from threads is learning to relax on the bike. Tense up and it all goes to pot.
Well father now for my sins.......
As a relative newb (I'm a weekend biker but dont get much free time to ride) I can sympathise with all the thoughts here and its helpful to hear other peoples comments and feedback.
My two penneth
1. Side winds can be a bugger - found myself slowing right down on exposed dual carriageway at the weekend.
2. Insect hits - a nightmare - dont know how these hardened types wear open faced helmets. Have had a bee blow inside my visor already in my limited riding career. Not much fun at 60.
3. Find steep down hill corners the most tricky to handle esp when you're having to shift the weight of the bike around under braking.
4. I've given up being a straightline hero and started trying to concentrate on how to ride properly.
5. Bikes lock their brakes quite easily. Not the best thing to learn when you're overtaking at 60 and someone pulls out of a side turning.
Best tip I have picked up so far from threads is learning to relax on the bike. Tense up and it all goes to pot.
I passed my DAS last year and I've thought of all the problems mentioned above, they've all affected me at some point but with 16,000 miles done now since passing I've learnt a lot, specifically:
1. Riding a bike needs 10x the skill of driving a car, the two are not comparable at all.
2. Riding a bike requires you to build confidence in the tyres, the suspension, the brakes - you have to understand and trust every part of the bike. Without that level of confidence youll never push on and you only get that confidence from training, technique and then practice, practice and practice.
3. Bikesafe should be the second part of DAS, not an optional extra.
4. Lots of new riders don't seem to get the right kit to start with - this makes a big difference, get a dark tinted visor for sunny days (plod don't kick you for it if you have a clear visor with night use), keep it clean, keep the bike in good condition, check tyres every trip, see 2 above.
5. Other road users, including some other bikers, will not give two hoots about you, ride as if they are all out to kill you.
6. It's the best thing since sliced bread so if you're not enjoying it join a club and ask what's going wrong or get some additional training, something is wrong if you're finding it very difficult.
7. Get some additional training The more the better up to a point.
1. Riding a bike needs 10x the skill of driving a car, the two are not comparable at all.
2. Riding a bike requires you to build confidence in the tyres, the suspension, the brakes - you have to understand and trust every part of the bike. Without that level of confidence youll never push on and you only get that confidence from training, technique and then practice, practice and practice.
3. Bikesafe should be the second part of DAS, not an optional extra.
4. Lots of new riders don't seem to get the right kit to start with - this makes a big difference, get a dark tinted visor for sunny days (plod don't kick you for it if you have a clear visor with night use), keep it clean, keep the bike in good condition, check tyres every trip, see 2 above.
5. Other road users, including some other bikers, will not give two hoots about you, ride as if they are all out to kill you.
6. It's the best thing since sliced bread so if you're not enjoying it join a club and ask what's going wrong or get some additional training, something is wrong if you're finding it very difficult.
7. Get some additional training
The more the better up to a point.I didnt manage to get out at the weekend, but I arranged a site visit on Monday morning so took the bike.. about 50 miles each way on a-b roads with a bit of DC thrown in for good measure...
Im starting to work out when I can overtake, and how much room is required for a safe overtake with plenty of room. the answer is a LOT less that a Diesel Land Rover !!! so Im no longer spending all may time at the back of a long line of slow moving traffic...
I always thought I was fairly aware of the road surface due to racing etc, but on the bike Its even more so 10 * what im used to so probably 100* the average car driver !!!
I've never been so aware of where the gravel is on the way into roundabouts and the edges of corners..
Im still getting the hang of what gear im in, blatting up to the round about, slowing down, and then trying to pull away in 3rd as i've not knocked it down through enough gears is looks silly..
how do you remember what gear your in?
I've also noticed that the rear brake leaver on my bike is set further in than the gear leaver, which as my toes point out, I have to physically twist my foot to use it. Not a major problem and I suppose it will be come second nature, but I've missed it a couple of times so far...
I tend to use the rear brake when coming up to roundabouts to allow smoother down shifting, or coming to a stop say at traffic lights.
today looks nice but I really need to spend some time in the office !!!! also Im off into town for lunch so may end up at a pub which puts the kybosh on any biking today
G
Im starting to work out when I can overtake, and how much room is required for a safe overtake with plenty of room. the answer is a LOT less that a Diesel Land Rover !!! so Im no longer spending all may time at the back of a long line of slow moving traffic...
I always thought I was fairly aware of the road surface due to racing etc, but on the bike Its even more so 10 * what im used to so probably 100* the average car driver !!!
I've never been so aware of where the gravel is on the way into roundabouts and the edges of corners..Im still getting the hang of what gear im in, blatting up to the round about, slowing down, and then trying to pull away in 3rd as i've not knocked it down through enough gears is looks silly..
how do you remember what gear your in?
I've also noticed that the rear brake leaver on my bike is set further in than the gear leaver, which as my toes point out, I have to physically twist my foot to use it. Not a major problem and I suppose it will be come second nature, but I've missed it a couple of times so far...
I tend to use the rear brake when coming up to roundabouts to allow smoother down shifting, or coming to a stop say at traffic lights.
today looks nice but I really need to spend some time in the office !!!! also Im off into town for lunch so may end up at a pub which puts the kybosh on any biking today
G
Graham said:
Im still getting the hang of what gear im in, blatting up to the round about, slowing down, and then trying to pull away in 3rd as i've not knocked it down through enough gears is looks silly..
how do you remember what gear your in?
After a while you stop bothering and instead use the gears to keep in a rev range that you can recognise by ear. That way you'll always have predictable power. I try and keep it above 4-5k unless I'm rolling in a 30 zone in which case I'll leave it in 2nd dropping down to first when I have to slow down at all.how do you remember what gear your in?
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