Sunday's riding - newbie thread

[Hyperion]

Graham said:

I tend to use the rear brake when coming up to roundabouts to allow smoother down shifting, or coming to a stop say at traffic lights.

I woulden't...the rear tyre is far more likely to lock up, especially in the wet. Forget about the back brake and use the front one instead.
Downshifting should be smooth no matter what brake you use.

[dern]

Hyperion said:

Graham said:

I tend to use the rear brake when coming up to roundabouts to allow smoother down shifting, or coming to a stop say at traffic lights.

I woulden't...the rear tyre is far more likely to lock up, especially in the wet. Forget about the back brake and use the front one instead.
Downshifting should be smooth no matter what brake you use.

I was of the same view until black-k1 pointed out that I was wrong and that I should be using both rear and front to slow down. I tried it and you're much more stable and you can slow down substantially quicker. Use the rear to help you slow down... you won't lock the rear up (you can't unless you're freewheeling which you shouldn't do anyway).

Edited by dern on Tuesday 1st July 12:47

[Nimbus]

I had a nice few hours out on sunday, 'practicing' on my current favourite bit of road, the B4011 between Thame and Bicester.

I'm trying to work on a number of aspects of my riding at the moment, still feeling a newbie after several thousand miles and 6 months under my belt..
Mainly trying to make myself quicker thro the corners,rather than piling up to them, hanging on the brakes, then wobbly round..

And trying to tidy up my overtaking, as I keep getting to close so I cant see ahead..

What I learnt was..

Yes, you can do the whole thing, 'quickly' ( for me..), without ever using the brakes.
Benefit here seems to be that its much smoother, you get in the right gear for the right corner, and there's less chance of that horrible feeling when you are freezing on the front brake into a corner, and the bike wont go round.
Was really pleased with this, and also managed to use some of the stuff from that MCN kneedown video, where you point your head at the corner exit, it really works
Somewhat blew it on the way home by coming in a bit to hot into a 90 left that I know well, freezing on the brakes and thinking I was going straight on.. Got round fine once I released the brake, but its a horrible feeling.. And of course, with a bit more confidence, I would have got round it ok in the first place.

Oh the other thing.. if you are trying to practice getting the bike leant over a 'bit', (and its really on a bit in my case.. ), by circling a big roundabout..dont change down from 3rd to 2nd with plenty of revs, just as you turn in..
The back end had a right fit, last traction then got it back.. would this be the beginings of a 'high side' ?
Anyhow an interesting moment, and a reminder of how easy it is to be complacent, and how you need to respect your bike at all times..

Other highlights, seeing so many bikes around

and downsides, my exhaust gasket has gone again so I must have messed uo fitting that

still, all in all a good days ride

[NineOneSeven]

Wow this is a great thread indeed. I have only had one day of DAS and I have another three days coming up at the end of the month, including the test.

When I started to gain confidence on my first day I encountered many of the issues you guys mention. I even felt if I had made a mistake and bikes may not be for me.

I found it tricky on the B road with regards to stability. Going round corners was also tricky. I was experiencing a kind of bike under steer. I felt like I was working too hard trying to get the bike round.

[Graham]

dern said:

Hyperion said:

Graham said:

I tend to use the rear brake when coming up to roundabouts to allow smoother down shifting, or coming to a stop say at traffic lights.

I woulden't...the rear tyre is far more likely to lock up, especially in the wet. Forget about the back brake and use the front one instead.
Downshifting should be smooth no matter what brake you use.

I was of the same view until black-k1 pointed out that I was wrong and that I should be using both rear and front to slow down. I tried it and you're much more stable and you can slow down substantially quicker. Use the rear to help you slow down... you won't lock the rear up (you can't unless you're freewheeling which you shouldn't do anyway).

Edited by dern on Tuesday 1st July 12:47

I certainly find that I can scrub of speed a lot more quickly and with more stability using a little bit of rear brake as well as front..

The brakes on my bike do seem to give plenty of feel, and i've come nowhere near locking either of them up.. including the odd bit of panic braking...

[surfsofa]

Nimbus said:

I had a nice few hours out on sunday, 'practicing' on my current favourite bit of road, the B4011 between Thame and Bicester.

Used to love that road in my Elise when I had it. The road up to Thame from the A40 is great as well. Must get over there on the bike sometime.

[lawrence567]

It's not that difficult to lock the back wheel, especially in the wet!
I can lock the back wheel by going down too many gears and letting and not using enough brake!
Needless to say i only did that once!

[Nimbus]

surfsofa said:

Nimbus said:

I had a nice few hours out on sunday, 'practicing' on my current favourite bit of road, the B4011 between Thame and Bicester.

Used to love that road in my Elise when I had it. The road up to Thame from the A40 is great as well. Must get over there on the bike sometime.

Indeed I still give the 993 a blast up there from time to time, but its mostly the bike these days..

There's always loads of bikes and fast cars on it, whatever time I try it

One old biddy started to give me 'the hard stare' on Sunday when I'd been thro 'her' village for about the 6th time, even tho I was keeping well below the limit in 30/40 zones and not revving at all..

I gave her a cheery wave

[dern]

lawrence567 said:

It's not that difficult to lock the back wheel, especially in the wet!
I can lock the back wheel by going down too many gears and letting and not using enough brake!
Needless to say i only did that once!

I've done it with the gears a few times but only once with the back brake and then was during a full on emergency stop staring at a small girl than ran out in front of the bike. I was breaking so hard that I suspect the back wheel was hardly touching the floor and I'd pulled the clutch in for the ten or fifteen feet so it locked. I should have left the clutch out for longer really but frankly I was just glad I didn't hit the girl and I stayed upright.

I've never locked it riding normally, even in the wet.

Edited by dern on Tuesday 1st July 16:44

[lawrence567]

I locked it in the wet the first day i got the bike, complete lack of experience and judgement!

[Hyperion]

I use the back brake just to balance the bike...what I meant was don't use just the back brake, try and keep it 75% front, 25% rear.

[black-k1]

dern said:

lawrence567 said:

It's not that difficult to lock the back wheel, especially in the wet!
I can lock the back wheel by going down too many gears and letting and not using enough brake!
Needless to say i only did that once!

I've done it with the gears a few times but only once with the back brake and then was during a full on emergency stop staring at a small girl than ran out in front of the bike. I was breaking so hard that I suspect the back wheel was hardly touching the floor and I'd pulled the clutch in for the ten or fifteen feet so it locked. I should have left the clutch out for longer really but frankly I was just glad I didn't hit the girl and I stayed upright.

I've never locked it riding normally, even in the wet.

Locking the rear wheel while the clutch is engaged is actually quite difficult though it does happen if you are braking and downshifting at the same time. (Or of you are coasting – which, of course, no one ever does!!!)

Even so, if the rear does lock up, as long as the bike is upright and travelling in a straight line, then there will be little more than a slight ‘tail waggle’ before you reduce the rear brake pressure and allow the wheel to start turning again. If you continue to stamp on the peddle even after the wheel has locked, then it is possible to get the rear to overtake the front which is likely to result is something serious.

If you are riding on the road then the rear brake should be used in every single event that requires application of the brakes. It will keep the bike more stable and, more importantly, allow you to stop, while in control, in a much shorter distance.

[Graham]

Hyperion said:

I use the back brake just to balance the bike...what I meant was don't use just the back brake, try and keep it 75% front, 25% rear.

Thats about what im doing, :-) a little bit of rear to balance the bike a little, and then in the very slow stuff, or when im comming to a halt mainly rear, as the bike doesnt dive around as much then.

[dern]

black-k1 said:

Even so, if the rear does lock up, as long as the bike is upright and travelling in a straight line, then there will be little more than a slight ‘tail waggle’ before you reduce the rear brake pressure and allow the wheel to start turning again. If you continue to stamp on the peddle even after the wheel has locked, then it is possible to get the rear to overtake the front which is likely to result is something serious.

Absolutely. Even in the emergency stop situation I was in the back only stepped sideways by a few inches and while I probably should have let off the brake I didn't because I was stting myself in an "oh my god I'm about to kill a small child!" moment. I was able to reflect on every nano-second of it when I'd managed to wobble round the corner, got off the bike and sat on the kerb to have a cig

[black-k1]

Ruttager said:

o The front brake can be used going round a corner but it leads to a very unstable bike. (too fast into a tight right, gently on the front brake looked as far up the road as possible). Won't be trying it again in a hurry.

You can use the front brake in a corner but that is how many riders end up becoming part of the scenery. As someone has said on here before, if the bike will get around a corner with the brakes on, it’ll piss around it with the brakes off!

Loading the front wheel (braking) while trying to corner is, I would suggest, the single most likely way to become a single vehicle accident statistic. Unless your name is Rossi or Stoner I really would suggest that this is a very bad idea. If you find you are too hot going into a corner, brake as much as you can before the corner then lean as far as you can (using counter steering) and look through the corner to the exit. Unless the bike is dragging large lumps of metal on the ground you will get around.

[Ruttager]

Yup it wasn't my smartest move but I learned a lesson. As pointed out in this thread you can't lock the back brake as long as your not coasting. I've just got back from a quick (post oil change) drive and used the back brake a load more than normal.In fact I don't think I've been using it at all the last few rides. It doesn't feel like its slowing you down but it does make a difference and smoothes everything out.

[Hooli]

back brake is great, i know which wheel id rather lock up. yes the front does a lot more braking but the rear brake stabilises the bike making it easier to stop. oh & the longer the bike the more effect it has, you can ride a sportsbike on just the front brake easy enough. its a bugger on a cruiser or other long wheelbase.
whoever said bikes lock their brakes easy - try applying the brakes not snatching them. squeeze the brakes on & load the suspension up before you apply full braking. only takes a fraction of a section as you apply them & makes it much smoother, especially in the wet.
learning to corner, took me ages too. those vids that have been mentioned have good tips in them. at least you know what you should be doing then, i felt after my DAS i still didnt know what i was ment to do when cornering on a bike.
i used to get confused which gear i was in, but it comes with pratice. i always drop to 4th for a 30 and know the revs/mph for 4th. you only need a few figures in mind to know roughly where you are in the gearbox. mine is easy, if the rec counter & speedo are following each other exactly thats 3rd. as you get to know your bike you'll pick up something like that too.

[hiccy]

I don't care what gear I'm in: down for down, up for up. Sometimes I try to change up in sixth, sometimes I try to change down in first; it doesn't matter, as others said, keeping the revs where you want them is more important.

[Hyperion]

hiccy said:

You should be bracing yourself on the tank when braking, NOT the bars. Takes some practice, but I believe most modern bikes will steer adequately on the brakes. Usually you find when you brake you stiffen your arms and it straightens the bars, which is the reason the handling goes to hell.

Nice little PH Top Tip there hiccy.
As you say, clenching the tank with your legs whilst braking leaves your arms relaxed to aid steering...it also stops your wrists aching. Most modern bikes have indentations moulded in the sides of the tank - that's what they're there for.

[hiccy]

Hyperion said:

hiccy said:

You should be bracing yourself on the tank when braking, NOT the bars. Takes some practice, but I believe most modern bikes will steer adequately on the brakes. Usually you find when you brake you stiffen your arms and it straightens the bars, which is the reason the handling goes to hell.

Nice little PH Top Tip there hiccy.
As you say, clenching the tank with your legs whilst braking leaves your arms relaxed to aid steering...it also stops your wrists aching. Most modern bikes have indentations moulded in the sides of the tank - that's what they're there for.

You got me thinking: take the theme of this thread and create a sticky for newbies, a PH Top Tips? Could we use it? Who could write it? We could have a contribution thread (this one?) and then compile a sticky out of it, perhaps?