Discussion
hiccy said:
Having done a quick tally, I can't see how Splat is "heavily outnumbered" in this thread, the opposite would seem apparent? Only two people have said that they are actively in favour of unmarked bikes, five have clearly expressed their opposition. I'd say it's fair comment that the majority of the remainder accept their presence, can see their benefits, but are also aware of their potential drawbacks: that's neither opposition nor support.
I think Heskey that if you had ridden a large capacity motorbike you would appreciate far more the concerns of many of the posters here: whilst in an ideal world Black-K1's perspective (for example) is fair and balanced, it only takes meeting the wrong cop on the wrong day and the majority of posters on this forum would be pedestrians. That has nothing to do with road safety, and that is why it is (at least a bit) unfair.
he's just a jumped up receptionistI think Heskey that if you had ridden a large capacity motorbike you would appreciate far more the concerns of many of the posters here: whilst in an ideal world Black-K1's perspective (for example) is fair and balanced, it only takes meeting the wrong cop on the wrong day and the majority of posters on this forum would be pedestrians. That has nothing to do with road safety, and that is why it is (at least a bit) unfair.
Heskey what are you on? Do you seriously expect the majority of bikers to be in favour of covert bike cops? Imagine if they took this kind of sneekery to new levels: sign up to a bike forum, join up on one of the Sunday hoons whilst casually filming it all for the courts. It might happen.
alfa daley said:
Heskey what are you on? Do you seriously expect the majority of bikers to be in favour of covert bike cops? Imagine if they took this kind of sneekery to new levels: sign up to a bike forum, join up on one of the Sunday hoons whilst casually filming it all for the courts. It might happen.
Actually, I do expect the majority of bikers to abide by the law on the most part.I think perhaps PH is probably a slight over-represenation of certain anti-police pro-speeding view points in certain aspects.
Like I said before; the only reason this news should come as a piss-on-the-bonfire for them is if they know full-well that what they do on the road is clearly illegal.
:shrug:
---
Again like I've said before, I understand the concept of speeding and if it were safe to do so, I can't say I wouldn't pass up on the opportunity; but that is a risk I would choose to take, and willingly accept the consequences of my own actions.
I think perhaps many of you should do the same, instead of knowing full well what you will get called up on, continuing to do it, and then whine when you get caught/whine at the increased policing on various activies.
Edited by Heskey on Thursday 3rd July 13:13
What's to say the police won't manipulate this system and interrogate bikers into going faster? I know people who have had experience of this in cars, and its only a matter of time when Mr Officer hasn't met his speeding quota that month he will be doing anything he can to provoke speeding. I think people are missing the point a bit here, we are basically paying for the police to ride around on superbikes with the intention of trying to catch us out.
davegsxr said:
What's to say the police won't manipulate this system and interrogate bikers into going faster? I know people who have had experience of this in cars, and its only a matter of time when Mr Officer hasn't met his speeding quota that month he will be doing anything he can to provoke speeding. I think people are missing the point a bit here, we are basically paying for the police to ride around on superbikes with the intention of trying to catch us out.
I would love to hear how the police can possibly encourage anyone to speed.The only people stupid enough to speed with the police on their tail are people running from the police.
And yes. We are paying the police to ride around on superbikes with the intention of trying to catch you out no doubt as a result of an increasing number of motorbike-related speeding accidents injuring themselves/others in certain areas. Budget well spent trying to keep you lot alive.
Edited by Heskey on Thursday 3rd July 13:15
Heskey said:
Like I said before; the only reason this news should come as a piss-on-the-bonfire for them is if they know full-well that what they do on the road is clearly illegal.
Speeding is clearly illegal in any context and I speed so yes. Having a bike and not speeding though seems a little pointless to most.This has always been the case with bikes and although some of the benefits of covert bikes are clear (as stated in my earlier post), it will clearly be abused and used as another cash cow.
If it's purely for safety, why not use marked superbikes which would get the message accross more clearly as their presence would be more clear to all?
Perhaps each of us should first answer a few simple questions:
Should there be traffic laws?
a) Yes.
b) No.
c) Only if applied to others and not to me.
If there are traffic laws, how should they be enforced?
a) By specifically qualified police.
b) By third party QUANGOS or private companies.
c) By any vigilant that wants to.
Should there be any speed limits?
a) Yes.
b) No.
c) Only if applied to others and not to me.
If there are speed limits, how should they be enforced?
a) By specifically qualified police.
b) By third party QUANGOS or private companies.
c) By any vigilant that wants to.
Now, working on the assumption that most right minded people would actually answer a) to all of the above, the question then is:
How should the specifically qualified police actually enforce the traffic laws and speed limits?
a) By using lots of marked vehicles that only ever appear in known locations and pre-prescribed times and provide advice and education in addition to charges and punishment.
b) By using some marked and some unmarked vehicles that provide advice and education in addition to charges and punishment and focusing on locations where statistics show there is an increased safety risk.
c) By using covert automated equipment that is focused on areas where there are known to be a greater likelihood of law transgression even though statistics show there is no greater safety risk.
If you are against the unmarked bikes, what are the alternatives? How do you suggest that you catch the chav in the body kitted Corsa who almost ran you off the road, but who behaves like ‘Reginald Molehusband’ as soon as there is a marked police vehicle in sight? How do you catch the ‘Mr Magoo’ who travels down country roads at a whopping 20mph but always pulls over to let police cars past ‘in case there is an emergancy’?
Should there be traffic laws?
a) Yes.
b) No.
c) Only if applied to others and not to me.
If there are traffic laws, how should they be enforced?
a) By specifically qualified police.
b) By third party QUANGOS or private companies.
c) By any vigilant that wants to.
Should there be any speed limits?
a) Yes.
b) No.
c) Only if applied to others and not to me.
If there are speed limits, how should they be enforced?
a) By specifically qualified police.
b) By third party QUANGOS or private companies.
c) By any vigilant that wants to.
Now, working on the assumption that most right minded people would actually answer a) to all of the above, the question then is:
How should the specifically qualified police actually enforce the traffic laws and speed limits?
a) By using lots of marked vehicles that only ever appear in known locations and pre-prescribed times and provide advice and education in addition to charges and punishment.
b) By using some marked and some unmarked vehicles that provide advice and education in addition to charges and punishment and focusing on locations where statistics show there is an increased safety risk.
c) By using covert automated equipment that is focused on areas where there are known to be a greater likelihood of law transgression even though statistics show there is no greater safety risk.
If you are against the unmarked bikes, what are the alternatives? How do you suggest that you catch the chav in the body kitted Corsa who almost ran you off the road, but who behaves like ‘Reginald Molehusband’ as soon as there is a marked police vehicle in sight? How do you catch the ‘Mr Magoo’ who travels down country roads at a whopping 20mph but always pulls over to let police cars past ‘in case there is an emergancy’?
m3psm said:
If it's purely for safety, why not use marked superbikes which would get the message accross more clearly as their presence would be more clear to all?
Because that would be like speed-cameras. People drive like demons and slam all on when they see the box; useless.What's the point in spending all day trying to catch speeders if on spotting the police they start riding sensibly?
The whole point of the covert is to catch out obvious speeders who will only obey speed limits when under surveillence.
And based on that merit, I think covert is a much better investment than marked riders.
Heskey said:
m3psm said:
If it's purely for safety, why not use marked superbikes which would get the message accross more clearly as their presence would be more clear to all?
Because that would be like speed-cameras. People drive like demons and slam all on when they see the box; useless.What's the point in spending all day trying to catch speeders if on spotting the police they start riding sensibly?
The whole point of the covert is to catch out obvious speeders who will only obey speed limits when under surveillence.
And based on that merit, I think covert is a much better investment than marked riders.
The way this thread is going anyone would think this is some sort of new sneaky-beaky trick.
There's nothing 'new' in the Police using this method at all.
45+ years ago, the Met Police Traffic Division started using 'covert' Speed Twin's in an effort to deal with the increasing accident and death rate on the Ace Cafe to Busy Bee 'race' circuit....;)
There's nothing 'new' in the Police using this method at all.
45+ years ago, the Met Police Traffic Division started using 'covert' Speed Twin's in an effort to deal with the increasing accident and death rate on the Ace Cafe to Busy Bee 'race' circuit....;)
Heskey said:
m3psm said:
If it's purely for safety, why not use marked superbikes which would get the message accross more clearly as their presence would be more clear to all?
Because that would be like speed-cameras. People drive like demons and slam all on when they see the box; useless.What's the point in spending all day trying to catch speeders if on spotting the police they start riding sensibly?
The whole point of the covert is to catch out obvious speeders who will only obey speed limits when under surveillence.
And based on that merit, I think covert is a much better investment than marked riders.
Can't see a problem with that.
These guys will tag onto a pack who will then try and shake them thinking they're out for a race, then go even faster than they normally would or crash. They'll also nick people like me who come up behind them and overtake when they're doing bang on the speed limit on a clear road and give me 3 points for the priveledge. If they were marked I'd sit behind them and ride to the highway code, not stand on the brakes or panic.
It's just dirty-tricks to generate money.
I will (and have repeatedly) take my punishment for speeding when caught, but this is just a sly underhand way of making sure that nobody sopts them.
When nobody knows who they are they are doing nothing for road safety either. People don't think it's a policed road and slow down in future becauise they don't know. If was a marked bike that they regularly saw, they'd think twice.
aeropilot said:
There's nothing 'new' in the Police using this method at all.
45+ years ago, the Met Police Traffic Division started using 'covert' Speed Twin's in an effort to deal with the increasing accident and death rate on the Ace Cafe to Busy Bee 'race' circuit....;)
It's not new, but it's previously been limited use in key high-risk areas, not regular patrolling45+ years ago, the Met Police Traffic Division started using 'covert' Speed Twin's in an effort to deal with the increasing accident and death rate on the Ace Cafe to Busy Bee 'race' circuit....;)
SplatSpeed said:
Heskey said:
SplatSpeed said:
he's just a jumped up receptionist
Right. And you're just an ass with no regard for the speed limit. 
now run along and shout some more government propoganda speed kills! my arse
But no seriously I'm not just mindlessly spouting propaganda that speed kills. I'm just saying:
1.) You know they're out to get speeders.
2.) You are a speeder
3.) Don't b
h if you get caught, you knew the risks.Speed all you like, just don't b
h about being caught!Heskey said:
I know, I'm such a charmer.
But no seriously I'm not just mindlessly spouting propaganda that speed kills. I'm just saying:
1.) You know they're out to get speeders.
2.) You are a speeder
3.) Don't bh if you get caught, you knew the risks.
Speed all you like, just don't bh about being caught!
Actually, you're coming quite close to the Speed Kills line, and ignoring the quite cogent arguments about entrapment, and covert bikes not actually doing an awful lot for the broader picture on road safety.But no seriously I'm not just mindlessly spouting propaganda that speed kills. I'm just saying:
1.) You know they're out to get speeders.
2.) You are a speeder
3.) Don't b
h if you get caught, you knew the risks.Speed all you like, just don't b
h about being caught!Personally, I'm willing to accept the entrapment risk that they pose, and will continue to ride within my limits, the limits of the Aprilia, and be bounded by a personal "appropriate speed" mantra, simply because of the covert bikes ability to witness the sheer stupidity of some of the other people around.
I shall rely on the common sense of the bike cop in question (though reading some of Humbersides own Masked Avenger on a Busa, I worry a little) to save me from the quick burst of speed points.
However, I'd take a certain amount of issue with your line of thinking. Fine, its easy to criticise speed if you aren't capable of it. You've said yourself that the Marauder is not capable of NSL speeds, and I think you'll find very few of us on here who willingly and regularly break 30's and 40's to the point of prosecution.
Artificial 50 limits on NSL roads, and indeed the NSL itself is, at least for me, a licence to use the training and intelligence I deem myself to have, and to decide for myself the appropriate speed, as long as that neither hurts myself or others. Maybe when you've decided to come back to two wheels, and tried a bike thats capable of doing more than 60, you'll change your mind a little about the whole speeding thing.
randlemarcus said:
Personally, I'm willing to accept the entrapment risk that they pose, and will continue to ride within my limits, the limits of the Aprilia, and be bounded by a personal "appropriate speed" mantra, simply because of the covert bikes ability to witness the sheer stupidity of some of the other people around.
randlemarcus said:
I think you'll find very few of us on here who willingly and regularly break 30's and 40's to the point of prosecution.
Artificial 50 limits on NSL roads, and indeed the NSL itself is, at least for me, a licence to use the training and intelligence I deem myself to have, and to decide for myself the appropriate speed, as long as that neither hurts myself or others.
Indeed. Succinctly put Artificial 50 limits on NSL roads, and indeed the NSL itself is, at least for me, a licence to use the training and intelligence I deem myself to have, and to decide for myself the appropriate speed, as long as that neither hurts myself or others.
Heskey said:
B.) Exactly, so what's your beef with coppers riding along... Unless you're doing something illegal?
Because they will be doing something illegal. Enjoying the performance of a decent motorbike on deserted country A roads in a group, will take most of them above the speed limit. I was doing 85 leptons the other night on a deserted B road in my crapastra and 4 bikers went past safely doing more than 85 leptons (alot more).
I use the word SAFELY. NONE of them died. I was a bit jealous as I've not been on a bike for 20 years.
Heskey said:
SplatSpeed said:
Heskey said:
SplatSpeed said:
he's just a jumped up receptionist
Right. And you're just an ass with no regard for the speed limit. now run along and shout some more government propoganda speed kills! my arse
But no seriously I'm not just mindlessly spouting propaganda that speed kills. I'm just saying:
1.) You know they're out to get speeders.
2.) You are a speeder
3.) Don't b
h if you get caught, you knew the risks.Speed all you like, just don't b
h about being caught!hing about being caught, i am bhing about underhand tactics being introduced ill be glad when you are outsourced to 118dia
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