40% power gain on Ninja 250? Yeah?
Discussion
There i was awake last night, thinking about how the universe works etc etc, and i thought about cyberface and his quest for less weight on his little 250. As far as i can see, you have a few options that might not be expensive, get a single seat conversion, lose the rear footpegs, replace the fairing with a lighter pattern part, but after that it starts to get expensive.
However, some of the things you could consider include a smaller battery(as was suggested by badgerbenji) or replacing as many of the bolts as you can with titanium ones, maybe lighter forged alluminium wheels. The problem as i see it,is that the frame and engine are going to weigh quite a bit as sakakaki make them heavy to begin with, iirc the frame is steel, and your only option ther is to get an ally one, but that will be mega money. Gives you some ideas though
However, some of the things you could consider include a smaller battery(as was suggested by badgerbenji) or replacing as many of the bolts as you can with titanium ones, maybe lighter forged alluminium wheels. The problem as i see it,is that the frame and engine are going to weigh quite a bit as sakakaki make them heavy to begin with, iirc the frame is steel, and your only option ther is to get an ally one, but that will be mega money. Gives you some ideas though
Having a frame made from ally won't save much if anything in weight.
Ballpark figures, ally is 1/3 the weight of steel but only 1/3 as strong so you have to use 3x as much ally to get the same strength. The advantage of using ally is that it's easier to form into complex shapes ie beam type frames and much quicker to machine.
I think the OP needs to weigh his bike fully brimmed with fluids and Dyno test it so he has a baseline to work from. Then go down the weight loss, suspension upgrade and engine tuning routes.
Ballpark figures, ally is 1/3 the weight of steel but only 1/3 as strong so you have to use 3x as much ally to get the same strength. The advantage of using ally is that it's easier to form into complex shapes ie beam type frames and much quicker to machine.
I think the OP needs to weigh his bike fully brimmed with fluids and Dyno test it so he has a baseline to work from. Then go down the weight loss, suspension upgrade and engine tuning routes.
snowy slopes said:
I take the point about ally frames, and also craig's point about a 400, for me, when i get round to getting another bike, being a short arse i think it may have to be an rvf400 or vfr 400, i always did like the v4 sound
my first 2 bikes (and another couple since) were 400's.with very litle trying and some ebay nous you can build yourself a mint nc30/35, add to the fact that spares are aplenty and many knowledgable owners clubs and it wouldnt take a lot (a lot less than a 250 4t) to get it mega.
There was a guy on the ninja forums who had a full system and PC put on the bike and I think he made 1-3bhp. So f
k all considering that it cost him £700 I'd have thought.
Like yourself I may be jumping into the world of the ninja but I'm just trying to weigh up my options. I love the idea of an RS250 but reliabilty is the bigger killer then theft of said bike. Then there's supermotos but they don't look as good, plus I think I'd turn into a wheelie monster.
k all considering that it cost him £700 I'd have thought.Like yourself I may be jumping into the world of the ninja but I'm just trying to weigh up my options. I love the idea of an RS250 but reliabilty is the bigger killer then theft of said bike. Then there's supermotos but they don't look as good, plus I think I'd turn into a wheelie monster.
obscene said:
There was a guy on the ninja forums who had a full system and PC put on the bike and I think he made 1-3bhp. So fk all considering that it cost him £700 I'd have thought.
Like yourself I may be jumping into the world of the ninja but I'm just trying to weigh up my options. I love the idea of an RS250 but reliabilty is the bigger killer then theft of said bike. Then there's supermotos but they don't look as good, plus I think I'd turn into a wheelie monster.
400, anyday of the week.k all considering that it cost him £700 I'd have thought.Like yourself I may be jumping into the world of the ninja but I'm just trying to weigh up my options. I love the idea of an RS250 but reliabilty is the bigger killer then theft of said bike. Then there's supermotos but they don't look as good, plus I think I'd turn into a wheelie monster.
obscene said:
There was a guy on the ninja forums who had a full system and PC put on the bike and I think he made 1-3bhp. So fk all considering that it cost him £700 I'd have thought.
Like yourself I may be jumping into the world of the ninja but I'm just trying to weigh up my options. I love the idea of an RS250 but reliabilty is the bigger killer then theft of said bike. Then there's supermotos but they don't look as good, plus I think I'd turn into a wheelie monster.
The good thing about Supermoto's/trailies and wheelying is it's all done at very sane speeds - take a look around - noone about and hoik it up in second at 10mph, get it up as high as possible and short shift through the box landing it at about 50mph!. The top speed of my down geared DRZ is often the speed I start a wheelie on the CBR!!k all considering that it cost him £700 I'd have thought.Like yourself I may be jumping into the world of the ninja but I'm just trying to weigh up my options. I love the idea of an RS250 but reliabilty is the bigger killer then theft of said bike. Then there's supermotos but they don't look as good, plus I think I'd turn into a wheelie monster.
Castrol Craig said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
i know his point, but if he wants a great project and ballistic corner speed, buy yourself a tidy 400 and work on that. 60-70bhp is acheivable and you can make them ride rings round the big stuff.
Oh yeah?Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
i know his point, but if he wants a great project and ballistic corner speed, buy yourself a tidy 400 and work on that. 60-70bhp is acheivable and you can make them ride rings round the big stuff.
Oh yeah?
Castrol Craig said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
i know his point, but if he wants a great project and ballistic corner speed, buy yourself a tidy 400 and work on that. 60-70bhp is acheivable and you can make them ride rings round the big stuff.
Oh yeah?Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
i know his point, but if he wants a great project and ballistic corner speed, buy yourself a tidy 400 and work on that. 60-70bhp is acheivable and you can make them ride rings round the big stuff.
Oh yeah?Castrol Craig said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Castrol Craig said:
i know his point, but if he wants a great project and ballistic corner speed, buy yourself a tidy 400 and work on that. 60-70bhp is acheivable and you can make them ride rings round the big stuff.
Oh yeah?
Alright then, broadening the options somewhat…
Keeping the 'narrow' and 'twin' theme… but trying to get the 'light' and 'good suspension' and 'sport' without modern IL4 supersport power…
What say I bung the filter and can on the Ninja just to make it sound nice, commute on that, and get an SV650S (don't like naked bikes - the SV650S has enough of a fairing doesn't it?), put decent suspension and sticky tyres on, and rag that around?
It'll be just a little bit too easy to break 100 mph but nothing like the supersport 600s. I was going to buy the SV650 as my first bike but got seduced by the red paint and the name 'Ducati' instead
- always loved the noise of the SV650.
Had a look at the old 748 Ducati but they're pretty powerful for a 750 v-twin and expensive, uncomfortable and desirable to thieves.
Are there decent tuning parts available for the SV650? It's a popular bike, but again if it's just beginners buying it then it'll be the same problem as the Ninja 250. I know it was pretty cheap new because I was considering one years ago, but years later there may be some decent bits to soup up the grip and handling…
And no, I don't want the SV1000. The 650 is surprisingly close to my power / torque maximums, and if I rag it around everywhere (and tune the suspension such that I *can* rag it around everywhere controllably) then I could lose my licence but jail is a lot less likely than if, say, I bought a CBR600RR on the basis that it weighed near-as-dammit the same as my Ninja 250.
How heavy is the SV650? Googled - bks - 196 kg. That's silly for a bike like that. The can looks like it weighs a ton and could be usefully lightened, but I'm after 150-160 kg FFS, like my bike and that damn CBR600RR….
Keeping the 'narrow' and 'twin' theme… but trying to get the 'light' and 'good suspension' and 'sport' without modern IL4 supersport power…
What say I bung the filter and can on the Ninja just to make it sound nice, commute on that, and get an SV650S (don't like naked bikes - the SV650S has enough of a fairing doesn't it?), put decent suspension and sticky tyres on, and rag that around?
It'll be just a little bit too easy to break 100 mph but nothing like the supersport 600s. I was going to buy the SV650 as my first bike but got seduced by the red paint and the name 'Ducati' instead
- always loved the noise of the SV650.Had a look at the old 748 Ducati but they're pretty powerful for a 750 v-twin and expensive, uncomfortable and desirable to thieves.
Are there decent tuning parts available for the SV650? It's a popular bike, but again if it's just beginners buying it then it'll be the same problem as the Ninja 250. I know it was pretty cheap new because I was considering one years ago, but years later there may be some decent bits to soup up the grip and handling…
And no, I don't want the SV1000. The 650 is surprisingly close to my power / torque maximums, and if I rag it around everywhere (and tune the suspension such that I *can* rag it around everywhere controllably) then I could lose my licence but jail is a lot less likely than if, say, I bought a CBR600RR on the basis that it weighed near-as-dammit the same as my Ninja 250.
How heavy is the SV650? Googled - b
ks - 196 kg. That's silly for a bike like that. The can looks like it weighs a ton and could be usefully lightened, but I'm after 150-160 kg FFS, like my bike and that damn CBR600RR….Just been googling and seen this:
If that 196 kg figure from Suzuki's website is a 'brand new with loads of emissions kit and full tank of fuel and fat bloke on board' weight…. and in reality the bike only weighs around 10 kg or so more than my Ninja 250, then fk the project, I'm selling the 250, buying a 5 year old SV650S at half the price and starting a project bike out of *that*.
I utterly *LOVE* TimmyWimmyWoo's Triumph and it ticks a lot of boxes, but it's the 100+ bhp 150 mph supersports thing again… and it's so beautiful, I'd feel like I need to polish it every day… for the 5 or 6 days I'd own it before the pikeys steal it.
As to a project SV650… the internet comments on the SV650S reckon it takes effort to get above 110 (it'll do 125, probably, with 70 bhp) and that's good news. Don't want more power, so keeping the engine standard output should help it being insurable.
There's also loads of suspension tuning parts available, all the way to Penske shocks and fork braces. It's a V-twin, my favourite bike engine type, and unless you put silly twin exhausts on it, it's narrow as hell - with that pic above, the high level exhaust has made it even narrower.
All it needs is fairing kits to make it look more sportsbike-like, the 650S has clip-ons so a different riding position (much more like the Ninja 250's 'comfy' compromise between sit-up-commuter and low-clip-on supersports). I think the US market gets a SV650SF, which has the full fairing for the sportsbike look… which is where that pic comes from. Apart from the rim tape, I think that bike is bloody good looking. Not 'beautiful' but I think I've got a dilemma brewing….
If it's really 196 kg as standard, then plus me and fluids it's as heavy as a bloody Bandit then forget it. If not - fickle cyberface has just found a new project…. and unless the SVs are stupidly tatty and unreliable, for the price of the Ninja I'm looking at a decent SV plus a grand to spend on mods.
Hands up who was expecting this? I mentioned this to my girlfriend and she smiled and said 'when are you picking it up then?' - she was convinced I couldn't keep convincing myself the 250 was fast enough. The only way this isn't going to work now is if the SV650S is heavy. You see, the pillion pad on the SV650 is big and comfy. And there's a big grab rail at the back. And Becky absolutely LOVES the SV650 because it's both very comfortable for her, and also a throbbing V-twin… she will be encouraging me to buy one. Especially if it's cheaper than the Ninja, though I'll piss through any savings on mods - suspension and tyres first, won't ever need to touch the engine other than to lighten / move the exhaust, as I don't need or want more power.
If that 196 kg figure from Suzuki's website is a 'brand new with loads of emissions kit and full tank of fuel and fat bloke on board' weight…. and in reality the bike only weighs around 10 kg or so more than my Ninja 250, then f
k the project, I'm selling the 250, buying a 5 year old SV650S at half the price and starting a project bike out of *that*.I utterly *LOVE* TimmyWimmyWoo's Triumph and it ticks a lot of boxes, but it's the 100+ bhp 150 mph supersports thing again… and it's so beautiful, I'd feel like I need to polish it every day… for the 5 or 6 days I'd own it before the pikeys steal it.
As to a project SV650… the internet comments on the SV650S reckon it takes effort to get above 110 (it'll do 125, probably, with 70 bhp) and that's good news. Don't want more power, so keeping the engine standard output should help it being insurable.
There's also loads of suspension tuning parts available, all the way to Penske shocks and fork braces. It's a V-twin, my favourite bike engine type, and unless you put silly twin exhausts on it, it's narrow as hell - with that pic above, the high level exhaust has made it even narrower.
All it needs is fairing kits to make it look more sportsbike-like, the 650S has clip-ons so a different riding position (much more like the Ninja 250's 'comfy' compromise between sit-up-commuter and low-clip-on supersports). I think the US market gets a SV650SF, which has the full fairing for the sportsbike look… which is where that pic comes from. Apart from the rim tape, I think that bike is bloody good looking. Not 'beautiful' but I think I've got a dilemma brewing….
If it's really 196 kg as standard, then plus me and fluids it's as heavy as a bloody Bandit then forget it. If not - fickle cyberface has just found a new project…. and unless the SVs are stupidly tatty and unreliable, for the price of the Ninja I'm looking at a decent SV plus a grand to spend on mods.
Hands up who was expecting this? I mentioned this to my girlfriend and she smiled and said 'when are you picking it up then?' - she was convinced I couldn't keep convincing myself the 250 was fast enough. The only way this isn't going to work now is if the SV650S is heavy. You see, the pillion pad on the SV650 is big and comfy. And there's a big grab rail at the back. And Becky absolutely LOVES the SV650 because it's both very comfortable for her, and also a throbbing V-twin… she will be encouraging me to buy one. Especially if it's cheaper than the Ninja, though I'll piss through any savings on mods - suspension and tyres first, won't ever need to touch the engine other than to lighten / move the exhaust, as I don't need or want more power.
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