Why aren't there any 'automatic' motorbikes? In the car...
Discussion
Carrot said:
Andrew_M said:
A maxi-scooter is the best example of gear less x2 wheel motoring. The Gilera GP800 is a bit of tool and TBH I would love one for the daily commute, but at £6500+ a touch rich for me...
As has been said the DCT Honda is pretty ground breaking, but the lack of control on something like a bike is a bit of a concern. Imagine an aggressive kick down, it wouldn't take long to get in a pickle. I would love a go though
I own a piaggio x9 500 As has been said the DCT Honda is pretty ground breaking, but the lack of control on something like a bike is a bit of a concern. Imagine an aggressive kick down, it wouldn't take long to get in a pickle. I would love a go though
I do have my eye on the gp800 as my next bike though...
Jazoli said:
R1 Loon said:
Semi automatic?
You could argue any bike with a quick shifter is.
You could but I'd say having to use the clutch to stop and go makes it in no way a semi auto You could argue any bike with a quick shifter is.
Bloody techinical numpties
Edited by Jazoli on Monday 4th October 19:22
Honda has done a sterling job of taking what they have and making it lighter and more suitable for the job, but the issue is that a good gearbox on a bike is actually efficient, easy to use and in many ways the best solution.
A modern bike with a sequential gearbox will allow for clutchless changes and if you go up market, some modern quick shifters will allow you to go up as well as down the gearbox without a clutch.
But it depends on what you are looking for though. I was always taught that slower speed riding is a lesson in the finer arts of clutch control and being in the right gear. If you have an automatic gearbox, you run the risk of losing all of the advantages that you might have. Again, I was always taught that you need the revs UP to maintain the gyroscopic forces for stability and modulate your speed with the clutch. I am sure you can work around a lot of this with clever electronics and stuff, but it makes it all a very complex system.
And then there is cornering and changing gear too. You would have to rely on all of those lean and other sensors to work out speed, lean angle and throttle position etc. Just to work out if you can change or not while cornering and when you could. I believe that Honda has done a great job in the latest version to fix the issues of the past. But it starts to add a lot of cost, complexity and issues to it. I am all for electronics and sensors, but I would be worried about the long term ownership of something like that. And potentially an error in a sensor might fluff a gear change on a sports car, but it means spitting the rider into a hedge on a sports bike.
Personally, given how much a good rider (which I am not) relies on engine speed, revs, gears and clutch - I would suspect its not simple or easy to do yet.
A modern bike with a sequential gearbox will allow for clutchless changes and if you go up market, some modern quick shifters will allow you to go up as well as down the gearbox without a clutch.
But it depends on what you are looking for though. I was always taught that slower speed riding is a lesson in the finer arts of clutch control and being in the right gear. If you have an automatic gearbox, you run the risk of losing all of the advantages that you might have. Again, I was always taught that you need the revs UP to maintain the gyroscopic forces for stability and modulate your speed with the clutch. I am sure you can work around a lot of this with clever electronics and stuff, but it makes it all a very complex system.
And then there is cornering and changing gear too. You would have to rely on all of those lean and other sensors to work out speed, lean angle and throttle position etc. Just to work out if you can change or not while cornering and when you could. I believe that Honda has done a great job in the latest version to fix the issues of the past. But it starts to add a lot of cost, complexity and issues to it. I am all for electronics and sensors, but I would be worried about the long term ownership of something like that. And potentially an error in a sensor might fluff a gear change on a sports car, but it means spitting the rider into a hedge on a sports bike.
Personally, given how much a good rider (which I am not) relies on engine speed, revs, gears and clutch - I would suspect its not simple or easy to do yet.
Golden fleece said:
...world, there are many high-end auto, semi-auto or clutchless manual transmissions, so why hasn't this sort of technology transferred to bikes?
Is it simply that the demand wouldn't be there to make it worthwhile for manufacturers to develop the technology for bikes? A clutchless auto sports bike, with abs and traction control would be SWEEEET!!
All opinions appreciated!! Or should I just stop being such a poof?
Stop being a poof.Is it simply that the demand wouldn't be there to make it worthwhile for manufacturers to develop the technology for bikes? A clutchless auto sports bike, with abs and traction control would be SWEEEET!!
All opinions appreciated!! Or should I just stop being such a poof?
Wanna be "driven" - take a buss.
I have never understood why a fast sequential box has never been fitted to a mainstream performance car? The change would be very quick and could be clutch less just using the clutch on down shifts and stop/starts. With a number on the dash you could easily keep up with quite a few gears to select from.
telecat said:
I have never understood why a fast sequential box has never been fitted to a mainstream performance car? The change would be very quick and could be clutch less just using the clutch on down shifts and stop/starts. With a number on the dash you could easily keep up with quite a few gears to select from.
Dog boxes rely on clean fast shifts, otherwise you get horrible noises and the dogs wear very quickly. It's also a PITA if you have to stop quickly and then work your way through the box back to neutral/reverse. I don't think the average driver would be able to cope with it in all honesty, and there are plenty of very average drivers in performance cars.telecat said:
I have never understood why a fast sequential box has never been fitted to a mainstream performance car? The change would be very quick and could be clutch less just using the clutch on down shifts and stop/starts. With a number on the dash you could easily keep up with quite a few gears to select from.
As above, they're not suited to road driving. Excellent at maximum attack on a racetrack, but their useful operating window is very small. Some road cars like the Gumpert Apollo have had sequential boxes, but the mainstream performance cars have sidestepped them.I might sound like a bit of a luddite here, but riding a bike with a quick shifter didn't add anything for me (i've done it on a couple of bikes, the most recent has a dead gearbox). I can't imagine an auto blipper would too. It's good fun to try out now and again, but for day to day riding, just give me a normal gearbox. I like to feel like I'm a little involved.
I'll be honest and say I really don't care if it gets me to work or the burger van 0.1 seconds slower......I'd rather feel like a part of the experience rather than a passenger pushing some buttons.
I'll be honest and say I really don't care if it gets me to work or the burger van 0.1 seconds slower......I'd rather feel like a part of the experience rather than a passenger pushing some buttons.
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