How much power is enough?

[Boosted LS1]

OP, if you start with a set of fairly low compression pistons you'll have scope built in to run higher boost at a later date if ever you want to. Rest of the engine can remain fairly stock if you don't increase the rpm limit.

[4.5]

That would depend on how good a driver you are.

[macdeb]

Power corrupts, and it costs. How much is enough? Never enough. To think of FI on an engine with 100k miles on it is asking for trouble IMHO.
PS; don't forget, suspension, brakes, driver ability [the latter is usually more luck than judgement]

Edited by macdeb on Monday 30th November 14:43

Edited by macdeb on Monday 30th November 14:46

Edited by macdeb on Monday 30th November 14:53

[TV8]

On the road a turbo 400 would be more than enough in my opinion. Unless you live in the remotest part of a remote place, you will not be able to use anything like the potential of the car and the slightest bit of damp makes things lots of fun!

[AceOfHearts]

Boosted LS1 said:

OP, if you start with a set of fairly low compression pistons you'll have scope built in to run higher boost at a later date if ever you want to. Rest of the engine can remain fairly stock if you don't increase the rpm limit.

Thanks Mike, I have sent you an email

[SILICONEKID345HP]

I would rather have 350hp na engine than a 4l Turbo,both making about the same hp.

[garfys v8s]

I have a 500 and it is a far better car than I am a driver. I am more than happy with it ?

[Richard 858]

macdeb said:

Power corrupts, and it costs. How much is enough? Never enough. To think of FI on an engine with 100k miles on it is asking for trouble IMHO.
PS; don't forget, suspension, brakes, driver ability [the latter is usually more luck than judgement]

Edited by macdeb on Monday 30th November 14:43

Edited by macdeb on Monday 30th November 14:46

Edited by macdeb on Monday 30th November 14:53

^+1 I'm with Mac on this, although the last point obviously doesn't apply to me as I am a driving God

[sgrimshaw]

If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you finally have enough horsepower! - Mark Donohue (RIP)

I don't have that much, but 374 is plenty enough for me.

[jamienshelly]

SILICONEKID345HP said:

I would rather have 350hp na engine than a 4l Turbo,both making about the same hp.

I would like to have 350 bhp N/A or FI, going FI is so much cheaper though, I can buy and fit a turbo with intercooler for a lot less than £500, that includes the plumbing for the cooler and making an exhaust, if I factor in a rebuild with new cam at another £500 then that works out so much cheaper than a V8D 5 litre engine and ancillaries. If I could afford that route then hands down, that's where I would be. I see Peters engine and think its a thing of beauty and the power is great, going the turbo route will give me an insight into proper performance for a fraction of the cost

[Richard 858]

jamienshelly said:

I would like to have 350 bhp N/A or FI, going FI is so much cheaper though, I can buy and fit a turbo with intercooler for a lot less than £500, that includes the plumbing for the cooler and making an exhaust, if I factor in a rebuild with new cam at another £500 then that works out so much cheaper than a V8D 5 litre engine and ancillaries. If I could afford that route then hands down, that's where I would be. I see Peters engine and think its a thing of beauty and the power is great, going the turbo route will give me an insight into proper performance for a fraction of the cost

A turbo installation for well under £500 !! Makes you wonder why everyone hasn't done it !!!!

Edited by Richard 858 on Monday 30th November 17:32

[SILICONEKID345HP]

jamienshelly said:

I would like to have 350 bhp N/A or FI, going FI is so much cheaper though, I can buy and fit a turbo with intercooler for a lot less than £500, that includes the plumbing for the cooler and making an exhaust, if I factor in a rebuild with new cam at another £500 then that works out so much cheaper than a V8D 5 litre engine and ancillaries. If I could afford that route then hands down, that's where I would be. I see Peters engine and think its a thing of beauty and the power is great, going the turbo route will give me an insight into proper performance for a fraction of the cost

Have you allowed for a new build when yours goes bang ?

I won`t be the first.

[neal1980]

Richard 858 said:

A turbo installation for well under £500 !! Makes you wonder why everyone hasn't done it !!!!

Edited by Richard 858 on Monday 30th November 17:32

I bet my first turbo conversion was about £500.00 all in for the turbo side on my first conversion




The latest one though was a fair bit more



The new one must be between 600-700bhp at the moment. I haven't even had full boost once yet probably about 4 pounds once then I got scared and backed off. Its so fast even before the turbos. Its mental but I love it!!

Completely un-drivable at full boost, would kill you in any gear, WAY WAY too much power but I wouldn't change it. I like the "this thing is trying to kill me" feeling

Hopefully next year when the weather comes can work on getting some of the power down but until summer comes this thing is staying off the road.

[jamienshelly]

I am fortunate to be in the trade and have access to full wksp facilities, I can buy a 2nd hand turbo for around £50-£60 or for a recon unit £120, an intercooler is about £30, some pipe probably kicking around in our scrap bin (fortunately truck and van exhausts and intercoolers and pipes are about the right size), the costly thing is after I have mocked up the exhaust is getting a proper Tig job done on it. Oil feed and return is not a major issue, a catch tank, RR pressure regulator and some other bits and bobs, I have even thought about fitting a twin unit from a sprinter, a small turbo then a larger unit so no lag, and I have one of those of an engine that had done less than 10k. My only real concern is running with the 14 cux, but people have run turbos and S/C successfully (Richard) with it. I am new to petrol FI, so if I have missed something important then please explain and I can work it into plan

[Richard 858]

Fair enough Jamie. As you rightly say some have run FI (as have I) successfully with the original Lucas system but it will need at least a best guess chip (which I believe isn't too bad on a 4 litre as they are apparently less variable in their characteristics than other derivatives), however if you do stick with the 14cux I would strongly recommend a proper remap even for modest boost levels and that is sure to add a few hundred quid to your costs.

I have learned the hard (& expensive) way that when you try to squeeze a bit more from your FI set up the Lucas system will ultimately fail to cope. My biggest mistake was not changing out the Lucas system before improving my FI output, I was politely warned beforehand but I can be stubborn and wanted to explore the full potential of the 14cux.
The result was that I found the limit and went further without realising it, I had already decided to upgrade to forged pistons for extra resilience when I decided on going MBE so the damage that had occurred to the original pistons wasn't really a problem but some rectification to the block was also required as a result.

To summarise I do believe a properly remapped Lucas 14cux can & will cope with modest boost(5 or 6 psi) but as has been said many times before you will get used to it and want more, then the wallet surgery really begins !!

Edited by Richard 858 on Monday 30th November 19:14

[jamienshelly]

Thats fair comment, I will go to a stand alone ECU, not sure which yet as they all seem to good and, I wont say bad points, but lesser points, and when I do, I will probably have also, or be close to a full 4.6 build. I will be using this an intro to FI and have some fun whilst I save and get a full fat unit built. S/C would be my first choice, but the initial outlay for the rotrex is not feasible at the moment

[ChimpOnGas]

How much power is enough?

It's a great question!

If you'd asked me that a couple of years ago I'd have said around 300hp, after all this was most powerful TVR I'd driven up to this point.

Fast forward a year or so and I've now experienced the following cars for comparison:

1. Mac's Turbo Nutter Bar Steward - Whoooosh & Grrrunt!

2. A1rak's supercharged AJP V8 Cerbera - Whoosh & revs!

3. Sonnylad's 6.3 litre LS engines Cerbera - Grrrrunt!

All made close to 500hp in their own way, and all seemed just right to me

Admittedly I was a passenger in the first two but did drive the 480hp LS Cerbera, and again my feeling was.... it felt about right

At no time in any of them did I feel my life was in significant danger or the car was incapable of containing this type of power.

I conclude 500hp is about right, until that is I get to go in something with 650hp, at which point I'm sure I'll be saying 650hp is about right

Does all this mean my meager 250hp & 260ft/lbs gas powered TVR creation is a disappointment to drive, not at all!!!

Give 'Ol Gasbag' a good spanking and she still spins her rubber & tickles my parts

What I'm trying to say here is... you can be happy with what you've got, but it's always nice to have more.

Perhaps 750hp is about right

Confucius says.....

"The best TVR is the reliable TVR, a 250hp Chimaera is 100% faster than a 600hp one going nowhere in the workshop with engine issues"

Finally I have to say for my purposes that big horsepower TVR (while fun) is probably going to annoy the inner Yorkshire man in me if it sucks a £70 tank of petrol in 120 miles or less, too many frequent fuel stops if nothing else!

Horses for Courses and all that.

[DangerousDerek]

It all depends on what's in the other lane.

[Pupp]

What's enough? Whatever the one you've specced, built and set-up yourself makes...

[ClassiChimi]

^^^^^^ hahah,, ain't that a fact!
I've been trying to reason it,,
If your going on track then there's never enough power,,,
If your a road driver like most of us,,,
I can only go by my car and I've got just about 300 Bhp at the wheels from my 4.6 ,,,
In my humble view it's close to being perfect for road use,,,
Hit a bump in 1st to 4th when hard at it on a road and mine will spin wheels at will,,
350 ft lbs torque when kept in the right rev range is fooking quick
Unless I had a need to run my car hard and time it I don't think FI would do anything for me that a fast N/A doesn't already do,,,
It's not just about ultimate power either to my mind,, you have to enjoy your car,, mine sounds just fantastic,,
The idea of effecting the induction roar or noises that the beast snorts out on over run,,
The best Tvr being a reliable Tvr can't be understated,,
After market Ecu and fine tuning of what you have,, especially if you use the 4.6 will give you real usable big power,,,
Run hard tyres like me and it feels like 500 hp,,,
in the real world we have no choice but to drive at sensible speeds,, I'm getting 28 mpg from my Tvr all day long,,,
Drove down to the Ace Cafe on Saturday evening to have coffee with an old mate,, 190 mile round trip,, just a cruise,, I probably got nearer 30 mpg,, the cars got 300 Bhp at the wheels FFS if I had to sacrifice those figures just so I had another 20% power of which I couldn't have used on any of that journey and stays hidden 90% of the time,,, it's totally unnecessary unless you have a private road,,
The question also revolves around the handling of the car,, my gut feeing is FI is another level,, surely your gonna need the highest spec suspension/brake set up, clutch, drive shafts ,,,,,
That's all money,,,
I'm personally really glad to have stayed N/A and my engine figures are in line with what I think can still retain reliability and most importantly use ability