Which Starter Motor?

[black_potato]

I just fitted one of these
http://www.racetechdirect.co.uk/car-parts/electric...
along with a new earth strap as the starter motor seemed very reluctant before and so far I have been very happy with the results.

[Penelope Stopit]

You often do get what you pay for

[ChimpOnGas]

Penelope Stopit said:

You often do get what you pay for

You're right, and what you're getting here is a very overpriced Range Rover starter motor and a warm feeling that the extra £70 you've just spent unnecessarily will be helping someone else pay their mortgage.

Worth every penny I'd say

[solarian]

I've been having similar problems with my Chimaera 400, in my case when I turn the key I can hear the relay in the cockpit going, but not the heavier thunk of the solenoid, so I'm going to try replacing the starter motor. After looking on Land Rover websites I found that the new part number for this starter appears to be NAD101490 (more specifically, NAD101490GP for the Global Power version, or NAD101490HD for the Powerlite one discussed above).

Some NAD101490 ones are rated 1.4kW and some 1.7kW, and on most websites these ratings aren't mentioned, and the exteriors of the various ones available all look subtly different, but I think this one:
http://www.ribblevalley4x4.com/allmakes/AM_NAD1014...
is identical to the one on tvr-parts.com so I'll give it a go and let you guys know.

Edited by solarian on Monday 5th November 14:12

[ChimpOnGas]

solarian said:

I've been having similar problems with my Chimaera 400, in my case when I turn the key I can hear the relay in the cockpit going, but not the heavier thunk of the solenoid, so I'm going to try replacing the starter motor. After looking on Land Rover websites I found that the new part number for this starter appears to be NAD101490 (more specifically, NAD101490GP for the Global Power version, or NAD101490HD for the Powerlite one discussed above).

Some NAD101490 ones are rated 1.4kW and some 1.7kW, and on most websites these ratings aren't mentioned, and the exteriors of the various ones available all look subtly different, but I think this one:
http://www.ribblevalley4x4.com/allmakes/AM_NAD1014...
is identical to the one on tvr-parts.com so I'll give it a go and let you guys know.

Edited by solarian on Monday 5th November 14:12

That's a Global Power starter, I fitted one seven years ago and it's still cranking the engine perfectly.

Today it cranked my engine seven times over the space of the day and was spot on, just as it is every day.

Seven years of perfect service and literally thousands of engine starts for £51.24 including VAT and delivery, I call that excellent value

[solarian]

Apparently the Global Power one is no longer available, but I see elsewhere on this forum that the Britpart one seems alright.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Penelope Stopit]

No offence meant,. Have you considered testing the circuit to find out if faulty wiring or a bad relay is causing the starter to fail?

Something that posters don't seem to mention in the TVR forums is that even when a good starter is fitted and working, the starter won't last anything like the time it should unless the wiring is good and of the correct current carrying capacity

Poster name "ChimpOnGas" has posted much information about battery cable sizes etc

[ChimpOnGas]

solarian said:

Apparently the Global Power one is no longer available, but I see elsewhere on this forum that the Britpart one seems alright.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

The Global Power brand does seem tricky to find these days so recently I fitted one of these on a friend's Chimaera and its spot on, I know other's who've had good service from this unit too:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-CHIMAERA-GRIFFITH-T...f:0

With good feedback from the TVR community and £65 delivered to your door you really can't go wrong, I've had seven years solid reliable service from my Global Power starter and I expect it to last many more years yet, but when it eventually packs up I'll probably fit one of the above myself.

Don't be tempted by the expensive £200 Powerlite high torque starter, I tried one years ago and the pinion did not engage correctly with my ring gear, it sounded nasty. It also cranked the engine no faster than any regular cheap Range Rover starter so I put it straight back on EBay to get my money back, that's when I decided to make a fifty quid punt on the cheap as chips Global Power starter and seven years later I couldn't be happier I did.

This £200 Powerlite high torque starter is a classic case of paying four times the price for something worse, I expect if I'd kept it on the car for any longer than the week I ran it I'd be looking at a new ring gear too which would have been even more costly!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-CHIMAERA-GRIFFITH-3...f:0

Avoid this Powerlite starter at all costs!

[ChimpOnGas]

Penelope Stopit said:

No offence meant,. Have you considered testing the circuit to find out if faulty wiring or a bad relay is causing the starter to fail?

Something that posters don't seem to mention in the TVR forums is that even when a good starter is fitted and working, the starter won't last anything like the time it should unless the wiring is good and of the correct current carrying capacity

Poster name "ChimpOnGas" has posted much information about battery cable sizes etc

^^THIS^^

The well publicised and common immobiliser fault will give you no cranking/intermittent cranking, and the weedy string thin starter cable and or a poorly earthed engine will give you slow cranking or sometimes just a click from the solenoid and no cranking at all.

That's not to say you dont have a starter motor issue, it's just there are many things that could be contributing to you starting issues that go beyond a straightforward failure of the starter motor and or the solenoid mounted to it.

My experience is its quite common to find more than one fault, as the starter gets older it tends to show up TVRs poor wiring where before it went undetected, my advice would be not to make assumptions and test everything. If you just fit a new starter it may solve the starting issue in the immediate, but you've still got that 20 year old feeble and way too thin 7' long starter cable in there draped over the bell housing and trapped behind the hot cylinder heads.

Seven years ago I took an holistic approach to my starting issues which effectively amounted to upgrading mostly everything significant in the whole starting circuit with far far superior components:

• New Odyssey PC1500 battery
• New much heavier gauge marine quality tinned starter cable
• New additional earth from battery to engine block in the same heavy gauge marine quality tinned cable
• Immobiliser issues resolved
• New Global Power starter motor

Suffice to say I've never ever had a single starting issue since, from baking hot restarts in the South of France to super strong cold start cranking in sub zero conditions the engine spins over like a top every time.

Note the absence from the above list is the so called 'Hot Start Kit' which was created by someone who didn't understand the true reasons why our cars can suffer starting issues. While it's true TVR chose not to equip our cars with a dedicated starter relay its important to understand the real reason car makers fit such a relay is to extend the life of the ignition switch, more specifically to take load off the contacts in the spring start position of the switch.

A starter solenoid relay is not really used by car makers to deliver more amps to the starter solenoid as the inventor of the 'Hot Start Kit' (just a relay) will have you believe, and in practice the Vauxhall Cavalier ignition switch used by TVR on Chims and Griffs is a pretty durable old thing anyway, I'm still on my 22 year old original and I've had no issues with it, my Chimaera has never had a starter relay fitted proving its really not required.

The truth is the voltage drop on the low amp starter solenoid circuit typically happens within the immobiliser unit, over time resistance becomes so great across the contacts on the internal relay potted inside the immobiliser that eventually the car fails to start, this often happens when the car gets hot as resistance in any electrical circuit increases with heat. The problem was made worse because TVR wired the higher amp starter solenoid through the low amp immobiliser relay designed for the low amp ECU circuit, and the low amp ECU through the higher amp relay designed for the starter solenoid.

This one simple but significant mistake by TVR is the true reason for the so called 'Hot Start Issue', and is probably the single most influential reason for our cars having such a poor reputation for reliability amongst the general public. Only last week I was in the pub speaking with a new friend and he took great delight in telling me his company director had a Griffith in the mid 90's and the damn thing would only start 50% of the time, these stories have become ingrained in the public subconscious to the extent that even 20 years later when you mention TVR you're likely to be met with much sucking of teeth and the words... "TVRs are terribly unreliable, right?"

If only TVR had wired the immobiliser correctly much of this would never have stuck, well until that is the Cerbera came along with all it's own wiring unreliability and then the 'T' cars with their chocolate Speed Six engine

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 7th November 15:44

[Jobster]

ChimpOnGas said:

The Global Power brand does seem tricky to find these days so recently I fitted one of these on a friend's Chimaera and its spot on, I know other's who've had good service from this unit too:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-CHIMAERA-GRIFFITH-T...f:0

With good feedback from the TVR community and £65 delivered to your door you really can't go wrong, I've had seven years solid reliable service from my Global Power starter and I expect it to last many more years yet, but when it eventually packs up I'll probably fit one of the above myself.

Don't be tempted by the expensive £200 Powerlite high torque starter, I tried one years ago and the pinion did not engage correctly with my ring gear, it sounded nasty. It also cranked the engine no faster than any regular cheap Range Rover starter so I put it straight back on EBay to get my money back, that's when I decided to make a fifty quid punt on the cheap as chips Global Power starter and seven years later I couldn't be happier I did.

This £200 Powerlite high torque starter is a classic case of paying four times the price for something worse, I expect if I'd kept it on the car for any longer than the week I ran it I'd be looking at a new ring gear too which would have been even more costly!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-CHIMAERA-GRIFFITH-3...f:0

Avoid this Powerlite starter at all costs!

Ordered this one from eBay as well as per your recommendation. Hot weather today, starter finally packed up at the fuel station. Never did this before, all other possibilities have been eliminated already. Will report back when installed.

[Tyre Tread]

I just started to get a click on turning the key rather then the usual engine noises so I removed the starter motor and seems like it's, (as usual) the solenoid that's at fault.

Anyone know a part number for the solenoid for a NAD101490 starter motor please?

[sixor8]

It's hardly worth it, a whole starter is less than £60:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202149332087?ssPageName...

And if you want an exact part no match, £78:

https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/nad101490-starte...

Are you sure it's not an immobiliser fault or poor supply to the solenoid? Using a second car battery on the bench (or rather in the kitchen ), I checked mine by hotwiring the solenoid to the starter positive terminal itself. Touching the positive terminal caused the starter to flick into operation.

Edited by sixor8 on Sunday 15th August 17:15

[Tyre Tread]

sixor8 said:

It's hardly worth it, a whole starter is less than £60:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202149332087?ssPageName...

And if you want an exact part no match, £78:

https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/nad101490-starte...

Are you sure it's not an immobiliser fault or poor supply to the solenoid? Using a second car battery on the bench (or rather in the kitchen ), I checked mine by hotwiring the solenoid to the starter positive terminal itself. Touching the positive terminal caused the starter to flick into operation.

Edited by sixor8 on Sunday 15th August 17:15

Thank you.

Yes, I've bench tested the motor and definitely the solenoid.