Billy Bilsteins
Discussion
Crikey that was fast service, I only paid Ben on Saturday evening and these lovelies arrive this morning....
Fingers crossed we'll have a dry weekend and I'll be able to fit them this weekend.
As my engine behaviour becomes even smoother by the day, the harsher than I'd like ride from my rose jointed Gaz Gold Pros annoys me more & more so I can't wait to feel how 'Ol Gasbag' drives on my new bespoke valved & sprung Mk4 Tuscan "S" Billies
I really hope I've made the right choice
Fingers crossed we'll have a dry weekend and I'll be able to fit them this weekend.
As my engine behaviour becomes even smoother by the day, the harsher than I'd like ride from my rose jointed Gaz Gold Pros annoys me more & more so I can't wait to feel how 'Ol Gasbag' drives on my new bespoke valved & sprung Mk4 Tuscan "S" Billies
I really hope I've made the right choice
ClassiChimi said:
I'm rooting for you big fella, now after all this sales patter you've got to be brutally honest which is hard when you've spent a bag of sand on shockers! Fingers crossed,, weekend 
ain't you got a torch 
Exactly mate, you nailed it there. ain't you got a torch The brutal honesty starts right here with my two first impressions:
1. My new steel bodied Billies are a shed load heavier than my aluminium Gaz Gold Pros
2. The piston rods on the Billies is much much thicker and look way stronger than the rods on my GGPs
I did bend one rod on my GGPs but to be fair that was when I was running softer springs than were right for the added weight in by boot, this resulted in allowed pretty violent bottoming out episodes. TBH I very much doubt the rod bending issue would have happened if I'd fitted the heavier 400lb springs from day one of my LPG conversion, so it's not like I'm saying the GGPs have weak rods.
On first appraisal the new Billies can best be described as "Beeefy Units", they are hefty in the hand and look very well made. The Billies are not race car sexy like a fully adjustable aluminium bodied set of coil overs from the usual suspects but as it's all hidden from view I prefer to focus on the way they perform rather than their rather industrial yellow painted looks.
Here's hoping for a dry weekend so I can bolt them to the car and test what's really important... How the car rides & handles on my new Billies!
By the way if anyone wants some old Norton motorcycle parts here's my auction that's meant to be paying for 'Ol Gasbags' new suspension...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norton-or-Brough-Laydown...
Bid freely, I need a grand
It's a thrilling time, new stuff in the post and that sense of anticipation and hope that all will be as one hoped for.
Sorry to be a PITA but you really need a full geo set up again Dave, new shocks/brakes could be miles out
Matt Smith, corner weighting, with your addded fuel tanks I'm sure he'd relish finding the sweet spot.
Think pendulum Dave think pendulum
You made two points that I've also noted in the past,
The quality and strength of the piston rods
And the inherent weight of a Bilstein shock.
I just wonder how much the rubber mounts might help to irradiate the sudden shocks through multiple quick succession bumps. It's directly through the chassis at the moment on mine.
It's extra padding in essence so I'm keeping everything crossed.
Love that gearbox, im also thinking of becoming a flee bay magnet for a month and sell off some cool stuff to fund more Tvr trick bits.
I've had the experience of considering swapping or selling my Tvr for something else,
All I really found out was my Tvr is even better than the opposition, by miles.
So are we saying the spring rates are something like 400F 550R
Have you got some data on the springs Dave.
The bump stops start working fairly early on by the size of them, that might also offer some reverberance protection.
Looking at the restricted damper movement I'd say it's true that even with adjusters the distance the damper moves is so short that only one or two click settings are workable, so on the whole pointless.
The only shocks that seem good at soft v hard on adjustables that I've tried were Racing Reds!
So the question that has to be asked
Bilstein v Nitron v Gaz Mono for a compliant but sportscar ride?
Sorry to be a PITA but you really need a full geo set up again Dave, new shocks/brakes could be miles out
Matt Smith, corner weighting, with your addded fuel tanks I'm sure he'd relish finding the sweet spot.
Think pendulum Dave think pendulum
You made two points that I've also noted in the past,
The quality and strength of the piston rods
And the inherent weight of a Bilstein shock.
I just wonder how much the rubber mounts might help to irradiate the sudden shocks through multiple quick succession bumps. It's directly through the chassis at the moment on mine.
It's extra padding in essence so I'm keeping everything crossed.
Love that gearbox, im also thinking of becoming a flee bay magnet for a month and sell off some cool stuff to fund more Tvr trick bits.
I've had the experience of considering swapping or selling my Tvr for something else,
All I really found out was my Tvr is even better than the opposition, by miles.
So are we saying the spring rates are something like 400F 550R
Have you got some data on the springs Dave.
The bump stops start working fairly early on by the size of them, that might also offer some reverberance protection.
Looking at the restricted damper movement I'd say it's true that even with adjusters the distance the damper moves is so short that only one or two click settings are workable, so on the whole pointless.
The only shocks that seem good at soft v hard on adjustables that I've tried were Racing Reds!
So the question that has to be asked
Bilstein v Nitron v Gaz Mono for a compliant but sportscar ride?
I'm not 100% sure on the spring rates actually but I recall Ben talking 375lb on the rears but I'll have a closer look at the weekend as I'm sure the spec is written on the springs. The spec sheet that came with the delivery today outlines everything just as you'd expect but it's all in some sort of code only Bilstein understands.
Anyway to me its not so much the spring rates (although this is clearly important), it's how the dampers are valved to ensure they work properly with those chosen spring rates, it stands to reason the two elements (spring & damper) must be well matched to work together in harmony and deliver the desired result.
My next observation is all about the bushes, first lets take a look at what you get with the Gaz Gold Pro set up...
As we all know GGPs (and many others) use rose joints which by themselves are really a track focused arrangement rather than something you would ordinarily select for a road car. Now look closer, the GGP uses aluminium spacers either side of its rose joints. Why? well the damper ends are generic, the same damper ends and rose joints are used on their Lotus, MX5, TVR kits ect ect, from what I can tell these spacers are only really there on the TVR damper sets to act as packers?
Now lets look at the Bilstein bushing arrangement, I think you'll agree there's quite some difference
Check out the size of the bushes in comparison to the GGP & other units that use rose joints and spacers, now observe the big old steel washers set into the top bushes that to me appear to be specifically designed to properly locate the damper in the TVR chassis brackets?
Here's a good comparison of what I'm on about:
First the big bush Billies...
And for comparison some rear Protechs that appear use the same rose joint & aluminium spacer setup as GGPs ect...
Hopefully you get where I'm going with this? Where the GGPs have hard race car derived rose joints and skinny wear prone aluminium spacers, the Bilstiens come with big rubber bushes which over many many years have proven themselves to help eliminate harshness and vibration on pretty much every road car ever made since the 1940's. More than this think about the surface area difference between the GGP spacers and those big old steel washers used on the Billies, now think about each design located in the brackets on the TVR chassis and wishbones.
Little rose joints and pencil thin aluminium spacers vs big old rubber bushes faced with a nice big steel washer to act as the bearing face in the chassis brackets. I'm no expert but all in all the Bilstein arrangement looks like it was designed to work with the TVR brackets whereas the GGP setup looks, errr... like it wasn't.
These are just my observation as a layman you understand, I'm no suspension expert but the Billies sure as hell look like they will be a nice well located large surface area fit within the chassis brackets, especially those top bushes with their big flat faced washers.
Gambling a £1000.00 on assumptions is not the way I normally do things, so here's hoping I'm on the right track with these new Billy Bilsteins of mine
Anyway to me its not so much the spring rates (although this is clearly important), it's how the dampers are valved to ensure they work properly with those chosen spring rates, it stands to reason the two elements (spring & damper) must be well matched to work together in harmony and deliver the desired result.
My next observation is all about the bushes, first lets take a look at what you get with the Gaz Gold Pro set up...
As we all know GGPs (and many others) use rose joints which by themselves are really a track focused arrangement rather than something you would ordinarily select for a road car. Now look closer, the GGP uses aluminium spacers either side of its rose joints. Why? well the damper ends are generic, the same damper ends and rose joints are used on their Lotus, MX5, TVR kits ect ect, from what I can tell these spacers are only really there on the TVR damper sets to act as packers?
Now lets look at the Bilstein bushing arrangement, I think you'll agree there's quite some difference
Check out the size of the bushes in comparison to the GGP & other units that use rose joints and spacers, now observe the big old steel washers set into the top bushes that to me appear to be specifically designed to properly locate the damper in the TVR chassis brackets?
Here's a good comparison of what I'm on about:
First the big bush Billies...
And for comparison some rear Protechs that appear use the same rose joint & aluminium spacer setup as GGPs ect...
Hopefully you get where I'm going with this? Where the GGPs have hard race car derived rose joints and skinny wear prone aluminium spacers, the Bilstiens come with big rubber bushes which over many many years have proven themselves to help eliminate harshness and vibration on pretty much every road car ever made since the 1940's. More than this think about the surface area difference between the GGP spacers and those big old steel washers used on the Billies, now think about each design located in the brackets on the TVR chassis and wishbones.
Little rose joints and pencil thin aluminium spacers vs big old rubber bushes faced with a nice big steel washer to act as the bearing face in the chassis brackets. I'm no expert but all in all the Bilstein arrangement looks like it was designed to work with the TVR brackets whereas the GGP setup looks, errr... like it wasn't.
These are just my observation as a layman you understand, I'm no suspension expert but the Billies sure as hell look like they will be a nice well located large surface area fit within the chassis brackets, especially those top bushes with their big flat faced washers.
Gambling a £1000.00 on assumptions is not the way I normally do things, so here's hoping I'm on the right track with these new Billy Bilsteins of mine
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 17th November 19:08
Logical reasoning says your onto a winner. 
My Protechs came with copper spacers, one split when being nipped up?
Dom quickly machined some more up and alll was well but still.
i have soft springs on my Protechs, the rears have bump stops and there often employed to good effect, the fronts don't have any and I've felt them bottom out with a thud a few times so the Bilsteins having them on the front seems like a good idea to me.
As I've been thinking on similar lines over shock absorbers this thread is very useful and supplies me with all the info I need to make an informed judgement.
Suspension is very much personal preference so whatever results you turn up it's very much a subjective thing.
I still have nagging thoughts about Nitrons, it would be great to do back to back tests with the buggers but that's not practical
I hope your monies well spent and you sell the gearbox to compensate the cost, if this works then it's worth lots more than a grand over the years of driving pleasure.
Top Tivin
Having looked again, the larger size of the Bilstein rubber bushed ends, they are going to spread that initial shock through the outer body and through the whole shock rather than up through the centre of it as I think the rose jointed types can do!
Big old units they are Dave.
My Protechs came with copper spacers, one split when being nipped up?
Dom quickly machined some more up and alll was well but still.
i have soft springs on my Protechs, the rears have bump stops and there often employed to good effect, the fronts don't have any and I've felt them bottom out with a thud a few times so the Bilsteins having them on the front seems like a good idea to me.
As I've been thinking on similar lines over shock absorbers this thread is very useful and supplies me with all the info I need to make an informed judgement.
Suspension is very much personal preference so whatever results you turn up it's very much a subjective thing.
I still have nagging thoughts about Nitrons, it would be great to do back to back tests with the buggers but that's not practical
I hope your monies well spent and you sell the gearbox to compensate the cost, if this works then it's worth lots more than a grand over the years of driving pleasure.
Top Tivin
Having looked again, the larger size of the Bilstein rubber bushed ends, they are going to spread that initial shock through the outer body and through the whole shock rather than up through the centre of it as I think the rose jointed types can do!
Big old units they are Dave.
Edited by ClassiChimi on Thursday 17th November 22:05
Gentlemen you have all got it wrong this is the best Billy to come out of Blackpool.
King Billy Ayre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79akDO3cXXQ
May he rest in peace
King Billy Ayre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79akDO3cXXQ
May he rest in peace
Edited by portzi on Saturday 19th November 18:14
ClassiChimi said:
The anticipation is palpable well it is in my house.
I'm sure Dave will do a full weeks test and travel half the globe on one tank full before committing his thoughts,
It's a bit cold to be swapping shocks about?
All fitted mate and I even managed a little test drive too well it is in my house. I'm sure Dave will do a full weeks test and travel half the globe on one tank full before committing his thoughts,
It's a bit cold to be swapping shocks about?
Wanna hear more?
ChimpOnGas said:
All fitted mate and I even managed a little test drive too
Wanna hear more?
Wanna hear more?
,Nah, I'm bored with this thread, I might start one up on the pros and cons of Nitrons,,, if I had some
Yeah, by the tone of those words, it's looking good
I'm interested in the Tuscan set up, is it a revelation with your gas tank.
Is it a bit soft or are the dampers doing the job?
Does it feel more cushioned?
Is it night and day
Edited by ClassiChimi on Saturday 19th November 20:58
The first thing I noticed was the old front Billies I've been running as a temporary measure have the same size bushes top and bottom whereas the new Billies have that big bush, I checked the rears and it was the same story.
The next thing I observed was the the lower wishbone brackets were clearly designed to work with the bushes on the Bilteins, they have a kind of nipple design I'd never paid much attention to before but when I offered up the new Billies the bushes located in a way that suggested the two elements were meant to work together.
The big top bushes presented more of a fitting challenge that the Gaz Gold Pros, but the location this bush offers is in a different league, I fitted the units to the wishbone first then needed to jack the wishbone to force the top bush into place. The top brackets needed opening up a bit to get those big bushes to start, much jacking up & down, levering and swearing was needed to get the bolt to slide through.
I fitted the fronts first and went for a little drive as I wanted to do things (and evaluate) in stages, with just the fronts fitted immediately something very surprising happened, something I just wasn't expecting....
The next thing I observed was the the lower wishbone brackets were clearly designed to work with the bushes on the Bilteins, they have a kind of nipple design I'd never paid much attention to before but when I offered up the new Billies the bushes located in a way that suggested the two elements were meant to work together.
The big top bushes presented more of a fitting challenge that the Gaz Gold Pros, but the location this bush offers is in a different league, I fitted the units to the wishbone first then needed to jack the wishbone to force the top bush into place. The top brackets needed opening up a bit to get those big bushes to start, much jacking up & down, levering and swearing was needed to get the bolt to slide through.
I fitted the fronts first and went for a little drive as I wanted to do things (and evaluate) in stages, with just the fronts fitted immediately something very surprising happened, something I just wasn't expecting....
QBee said:
.......the front of the car fell off the axle stands? 
Nearly 
But I wasn't referring to that, its the steering, the steering became much tauter returning to that lovely direct feel I've been missing for some time.
No idea why, but my fidgety steering and slight high speed vibration through the steering wheel has vanished, why just fitting front coil overs would properly tighten up my steering I have no idea?
But trust me... it did
The ride from the front was freaking brilliant too, so I immediately returned home to fit the rears. More jacking, levering and swearing followed but I eventually got the beggars in.
Then out for the second test drive, this time with the full kit fitted, wanna know what happened next?
ChimpOnGas said:
Nearly
But I wasn't referring to that, its the steering, the steering became much tauter returning to that lovely direct feel I've been missing for some time.
No idea why, but my fidgety steering and slight high speed vibration through the steering wheel has vanished, why just fitting front coil overs would properly tighten up my steering I have no idea?
But trust me... it did
The ride from the front was freaking brilliant too, so I immediately returned home to fit the rears. More jacking, levering and swearing followed but I eventually got the beggars in.
Then out for the second test drive, this time with the full kit fitted, wanna know what happened next?
This is bloody hilarious you bugger. But I wasn't referring to that, its the steering, the steering became much tauter returning to that lovely direct feel I've been missing for some time.
No idea why, but my fidgety steering and slight high speed vibration through the steering wheel has vanished, why just fitting front coil overs would properly tighten up my steering I have no idea?
But trust me... it did
The ride from the front was freaking brilliant too, so I immediately returned home to fit the rears. More jacking, levering and swearing followed but I eventually got the beggars in.
Then out for the second test drive, this time with the full kit fitted, wanna know what happened next?
Don't let us/me down Dave, I look forward to sitting down with a coffee and reading your posts similar to reading a journal or A Haines manual.
the weathers to cold for a decent test, it's too cold to fire up the gas you run out of gas
You got beached on some bit of old farmers drive filling up the tanks in the pitch black a mile from civilisation
Bottomed out all over the place, I dunno, what.
the weathers to cold for a decent test, it's too cold to fire up the gas
you run out of gas You got beached on some bit of old farmers drive filling up the tanks in the pitch black a mile from civilisation
Bottomed out all over the place, I dunno, what.
QBee said:
........the doors fell off? 
Nearly Now I need to caveat all this with the fact I only managed a 15 mile test drive, it was dark by the time I hit the streets for my second full kit run & the rain predicted for tonight & tomorrow had already started to fall.
I drove the car down some back roads I normally avoid because the surface is shocking, I threw in some M25 and pitched it into some fast (ish) bends mindful the roads had become greasy & wet.
So it was a very limited and brief evaluation but I did get to cover a good mix of driving, road types and speeds.
Wanna hear what happened next?
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