Bye bye heater pipes
Discussion
Is this just new routing to remove the under plenum water pipes? You will need some sort of heater circuit to allow water flow around the head before the stat opens, or you will get a sharp temperature rise the the head to about 95' before the stat opens, and then it drops sharply. You need to drill a 5mm hole in the stat to prevent this.
blitzracing said:
Is this just new routing to remove the under plenum water pipes?
MarkThe exact opposite, Peter is adding the valley heater feed pipe. The heater feed on all intermediate engines (Serps) comes out of the manifold on the front top right which you can see Peter has blocked off, he has then drilled and threaded the required hole on the underside rear of the thermostat housing to screw in the heater feed valley pipe like on yours. The valley pipe was only fitted on saloon & sports cars (mainly 4CU manifolds), 4x4 pre-serp & Serp engines do not have the rear exit valley pipe, they rely on an unrestricted front exit pipe that you can see is restricted on this manifold as it has the rear exit valley pipe. Hotwire manifolds with the rear valley heater feed pipe are very rare as only fitted to sports cars like TVR, Ginetta & Morgans.
As a result of the intermediate manifold's side exit heater feed TVR ran the heater pipes above the spark plugs which restricts plug access and also doesn’t look as tidy.
Peter,
I’m very impressed
You may be interested to know http://www.hobsonindustries.co.uk/ remanufactured the rear valley pipes for the military which you can see in this photo are slightly shorter but still plenty long enough to remove the jubilee clip in the field (situ).
You can also see I had the front restricted hose tail remade but for an 8mm hose which I plan to feed to the expansion tank in order to keep some water flow around the thermostat while closed to over come the sharp temperature change Mark refers to, it will also vent the engine while filling.
While there, I also removed and threaded the top 8mm hose tail near the coolant senders, but had to lower it as its directly below the fuel rail.
Good Luck with part two & three.
Steve
Edited by stevesprint on Friday 9th December 21:49
That's really cool dude, dare I say it a bit motor bike 
Long way to go but this is soooo interesting, I already know how fast you are, bust drive shafts prove the grunts there,
Oh, when you went past me with a grimace that day, I thought you'd f
ked a gear change, only when you stopped did I twig, it seemed like a blinding start until snap!
I've shied away from to much induction but this triggers some brain cells!
I'm really into the cut outs, hope this works as good as it looks, great crac trying though hey Pete, half the fun.
Good bloody luck
Long way to go but this is soooo interesting, I already know how fast you are, bust drive shafts prove the grunts there,
Oh, when you went past me with a grimace that day, I thought you'd f
ked a gear change, only when you stopped did I twig, it seemed like a blinding start until snap! I've shied away from to much induction but this triggers some brain cells!
I'm really into the cut outs, hope this works as good as it looks, great crac trying though hey Pete, half the fun.
Good bloody luck
What we do know is you'll be honest 
Vibration/heat, water circulation, soon find out but feckin hell it looks great.
The base might or might not effect much, if the manifold holds up to testing etc awesome mod. pity the injector wiring etc has to get in the way, are you planning on running wiring under neath?
Tell you what, I'll let you get on with it first, take loads of pics Pete, you don't see this sort of stuff on here to often.
Next thing will be a stainless Valley gasket
Vibration/heat, water circulation, soon find out but feckin hell it looks great.
The base might or might not effect much, if the manifold holds up to testing etc awesome mod. pity the injector wiring etc has to get in the way, are you planning on running wiring under neath?
Tell you what, I'll let you get on with it first, take loads of pics Pete, you don't see this sort of stuff on here to often.
Next thing will be a stainless Valley gasket
Can I just bump this and ask how it worked in practice? Gone down the same path but now have an unanticipated problem with coolant being expelled to the expansion tank (and beyond), and temperature spikes etc... thermostat does have a jiggle pin at the top...
Also, intrigued by Steve's pics insofar as both those pipes appear to enter the same chamber behind the stat? Or is one the bypass and the other the heater...?
Also, intrigued by Steve's pics insofar as both those pipes appear to enter the same chamber behind the stat? Or is one the bypass and the other the heater...?
Not sure if this will help Gary, but, when i converted to a serp front end i used the forward facing outlet just under the thermostat housing as my bye pass, plumbing it into the bottom hose, ie the swan neck as is on all serps. The rearward facing outlet on that underneath housing that would go to the heater i blanckedd off as i dont have a heater. My thermostat also has a jiggle pin.
When i first used the car set up like this the thermostat repeatedly failed to open and i kept having to switch off due to rising temp. Wait 5 mins and the thermostat would eventually open.
Thermostat tested ok so I put it down to an air lock around the thermostat. My solution was to remove the jiggle pin completely and i also opened the jiggle pin hole a few extra mm. It has worked perfectly ever since.
Just thinking could you have an air lock around the thermostat preventing it working correctly.
When i first used the car set up like this the thermostat repeatedly failed to open and i kept having to switch off due to rising temp. Wait 5 mins and the thermostat would eventually open.
Thermostat tested ok so I put it down to an air lock around the thermostat. My solution was to remove the jiggle pin completely and i also opened the jiggle pin hole a few extra mm. It has worked perfectly ever since.
Just thinking could you have an air lock around the thermostat preventing it working correctly.
All too late for immediate trip purposes but think I now finally know what is happening... maybe 
Thoughts are that as I run a forward facing JE thermostat housing and outlet, and have deleted the side angled heater loop port, there is no longer anywhere for steam to accumulate except in the manifold until the thermostat opens.... I think the upward cant of the OEM thermostat outlet and the up and over profile of the hose into the OEM heater rail were deliberate features intended to allow de-gassing and keep the water mass solid where it matters... suspect my combination has defeated that and, when combined with the particular stat I'm using, is encouraging vapour build up in the manifold and heads, then leading to the pressure cap on the expansion tank being overwhelmed and coolant being ejected - ie a degassing problem rather than a leak and I am having to replenish levels constantly due to volume loss through the cap rather than from the joint....
System as is seems very precarious.... car has not been run at all today although I did refill and cold bleed this morning more in hope than expactation, But by this evening by just being in the sun, it had pressurised enough to displace coolant into the expansion tank sufficiently to cause a load of gurgling and equalisation when I released the cap. Just never did that with the up and over side exit in place...
Thoughts are that as I run a forward facing JE thermostat housing and outlet, and have deleted the side angled heater loop port, there is no longer anywhere for steam to accumulate except in the manifold until the thermostat opens.... I think the upward cant of the OEM thermostat outlet and the up and over profile of the hose into the OEM heater rail were deliberate features intended to allow de-gassing and keep the water mass solid where it matters... suspect my combination has defeated that and, when combined with the particular stat I'm using, is encouraging vapour build up in the manifold and heads, then leading to the pressure cap on the expansion tank being overwhelmed and coolant being ejected - ie a degassing problem rather than a leak and I am having to replenish levels constantly due to volume loss through the cap rather than from the joint....
System as is seems very precarious.... car has not been run at all today although I did refill and cold bleed this morning more in hope than expactation, But by this evening by just being in the sun, it had pressurised enough to displace coolant into the expansion tank sufficiently to cause a load of gurgling and equalisation when I released the cap. Just never did that with the up and over side exit in place...
Sardonicus said:
No jiggle pin mods for me 
however I do have one on my OE stat, I insist on only using the Wahler stats purely for reliability purposes my coolant loop also differs from most by opening/venting the rear of the banks water jacket, slightly steam punk pipe work stainless and brass but it works
Thanks again for posting up Simon - the outlets on the rear of the manifold (where usually blanked), have you just linked those together to allow equalisation or are they feeding elsewhere? however I do have one on my OE stat, I insist on only using the Wahler stats purely for reliability purposes my coolant loop also differs from most by opening/venting the rear of the banks water jacket, slightly steam punk pipe work stainless and brass but it works 
Pupp said:
All too late for immediate trip purposes but think I now finally know what is happening... maybe
Thoughts are that as I run a forward facing JE thermostat housing and outlet, and have deleted the side angled heater loop port, there is no longer anywhere for steam to accumulate except in the manifold until the thermostat opens.... I think the upward cant of the OEM thermostat outlet and the up and over profile of the hose into the OEM heater rail were deliberate features intended to allow de-gassing and keep the water mass solid where it matters... suspect my combination has defeated that and, when combined with the particular stat I'm using, is encouraging vapour build up in the manifold and heads, then leading to the pressure cap on the expansion tank being overwhelmed and coolant being ejected - ie a degassing problem rather than a leak and I am having to replenish levels constantly due to volume loss through the cap rather than from the joint....
System as is seems very precarious.... car has not been run at all today although I did refill and cold bleed this morning more in hope than expactation, But by this evening by just being in the sun, it had pressurised enough to displace coolant into the expansion tank sufficiently to cause a load of gurgling and equalisation when I released the cap. Just never did that with the up and over side exit in place...
Gary just out of curiosity can you post up a pic of your stat plumbing because I am currently blind to why you may be having this issue and am basing it on what I similar to what I have just need to see the rising of the top outlet relative to the rad etc Thoughts are that as I run a forward facing JE thermostat housing and outlet, and have deleted the side angled heater loop port, there is no longer anywhere for steam to accumulate except in the manifold until the thermostat opens.... I think the upward cant of the OEM thermostat outlet and the up and over profile of the hose into the OEM heater rail were deliberate features intended to allow de-gassing and keep the water mass solid where it matters... suspect my combination has defeated that and, when combined with the particular stat I'm using, is encouraging vapour build up in the manifold and heads, then leading to the pressure cap on the expansion tank being overwhelmed and coolant being ejected - ie a degassing problem rather than a leak and I am having to replenish levels constantly due to volume loss through the cap rather than from the joint....
System as is seems very precarious.... car has not been run at all today although I did refill and cold bleed this morning more in hope than expactation, But by this evening by just being in the sun, it had pressurised enough to displace coolant into the expansion tank sufficiently to cause a load of gurgling and equalisation when I released the cap. Just never did that with the up and over side exit in place...
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