Central Locking Issues - Fekin Pish Poor TVR Wiring Again!

[ChimpOnGas]

Extracting the wiring at the drivers door solenoid reveals this lovey collection of crimp connectors....



Obviously this is someone's solution to recycling one half of the original connector when they replaced the door solenoid, this was long before I took ownership of the car some 8 years ago.

I'm wondering if they got the wiring right as there are now essentially three wire colour changes, the male half of the connector has different coloured wires to the female half which I believe is 'TVR normal'...



But the generic replacement solenoid came with different coloured wires again, it's just a thought... but did they connect these wires correctly when they fitted the new generic solenoid

Whatever the fault is, it's clearly causing a current draw and or voltage drop because with both door switches disconnected the car drives noticeably better. Low speed drivability is improved, the idle air control valve now works as it should and the engine feels way stronger especially over 3,000rpm like the coil packs are now getting more power.

I know Offord TVR charged the previous owner over £200 for reconditioning the Meta alarm system as I still have the bill, I subsequently discovered this works actually involved chopping out the siren and taking the fuses out of the alarm module, I guess this was their genius solution to infuriating false alarm activation. If this was the standard of their work and Offord also replaced the drivers door solenoid I have to question if they connected the wires correctly?

Here's those suspicious crimps again....



It's just a theory

[ChimpOnGas]

Brithunter said:

Seeing as how you now suspect the quality of teh work done by so called "professionals" if it was me then I would either have it done correctly by someone you trust or rewire it myself.


You know it makes sense!

Obviously in a ideal world it does make perfect sense, but we don't live in a ideal world and I thought the forum was about people sharing information and ideas with the objective of fixing things yourself?

Clearly there are no prizes for stating the blindingly obvious, since all this started I was never in any doubt the easiest and most effective solution would just be to get my cheque book out and have a professional take a look at it. However, all I'm doing here is discussing an issue with my car like hundreds of others do every year, many of whom often find a quick cost effective solution without resorting to paying a professional, thus proving the sharing of knowledge through a forum format can be a useful tool, actually this is really the foundation function of such technical forum platforms.

As I've been clear to say on a number of occasions it may well come to getting David from HF Solutions in to go through the wiring, but as there will be a considerable cost involved I thought I'd start this post to see if I (with the help of others) could find a solution before I resort to calling David. Now lets just say the only issue relates to Offord TVR connecting a couple of wires incorrectly when they fitted the generic solenoid and someone reading this spots the fault from my photos, that would take me two minutes to fix and be a nice free solution.

I'm not arguing against getting a TVR experienced auto electrician to look at the car, but like pretty much everyone posting problems on these pages I'm just discussing the fault with others first to see if I can find a solution before I do just that. The fact is for the time being I've effectively solved the problem for absolutely nothing... and all I've lost is my interior light coming on when I open the door. So I could argue getting David at HF in to fix it properly would be a very costly way of getting the interior light to function as it should, as it stands the interior light itself actually still works perfectly, it's just I now need to turn it on with my finger (hardly a big deal!).

But you're completely right of course, the proper way to fix it would be to employ the services of David at HF who conveniently is just up the road from me, unfortunately it's insurance time in a few weeks so my TVR war chest is already earmarked for that, I conclude insurance is way more important that having my interior light come on when I open the door.... so for the time being at least those door switches will remain disconnected.

Back on topic, can anyone advise me on the solenoid wiring and how to check if Offord got it right (or wrong) when they fitted the replacement generic solenoid?

Thanks, Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

Steve_D said:

I've just tested an interior light relay and get about 1 volt lower than battery volts on the (white/purple) pin.

As I said previously you need to take the 3 sources of power coming to the white/purple wires and disconnect them all. Then make sure you have no volts on your switches and no short to earth.
Then reconnect one source and test what volts it puts onto W/P. Disconnect and do same for each of the others. Finally reconnect them all and again see what you get.

Your solenoids are on a different part of the circuit so unlikely to be an issue. Also if they were incorrectly wired at the door they would lock when they were supposed to unlock so you would know there was an issue.

Steve

Thanks for checking that Steve, so my 7.9v is very wrong then being almost 5 volts below battery voltage, I'm not surprised my car now runs so much better since removing what looks to have been a significant drain.

As it stands with the door switches disconnected I'm enjoying a host of very noticeable engine behavior and drivability benefits, best of all it's cost me absolutely nothing. Given the only thing I've lost is the interior light coming on when I open the door and the light still works if I switch it on manually, I'm inclined to leave it as is for now and just get on with enjoying the car.

It's MoT and insurance time plus I could really do with some new diff bushes, a new pinion seal, and a Helicoil job on a pulled thread on the diff... so that lot will suck up the funds I'm prepared to invest in the car this year, as such for the time being I think I'll live with manually turning on my interior light. Next year with the TVR war chest replenished I'll get David at HF to give the electrics a complete health check and get the interior light working correctly, it'll definitely be money well spent but for now there are other priorities.

Thanks all, Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

Brithunter said:

Meanwhile hope you get the locking sorted.

Brithunter, I don't think you could have read my last post fully, It is sorted; with the exception of losing the interior light coming on when I open to doors (hardly a big deal) the doors now lock and unlock perfectly, with the added bonus the car now drives better than it ever has. The fault was clearly causing a big voltage drop which in turn was influencing the ECU's ability to operate the injectors and the idle air control valve properly, it also seems my MSD coil packs may not have been charging fully as I'm also enjoying much better throttle response especially in the upper rev range.

Finally some pearls of wisdom from the Cerbera forum that uses the same Meta system as our Chimaeras....

Tanguero said:
While the alarm its self may be low drain the door lock signal that the alarm uses to lock both doors is by enabling a positive voltage to the control box rather than disconnecting the opening circuit. When I was tracking down the high battery drain on mine, that seemed to be the culprit. I don't have a cure for it and ended up just using an Optimate to keep the battery topped up if I was leaving it undriven for more than a couple of weeks.

Tarmacshredder said:
Mine will just start after 3 weeks being stood but any more and it is flat and having read previous posts that seams about right. Having spent years dealing with alfas nearly all the gtv's fitted with a meta alarm have the same problem of battery drain after 2001 they are slightly better. I would say it is the alarm but also check after market stereos and amps aren't being powered continuously on the accessory power source as these can also flatten the battery quickly.

fatjon said:
It's the alarm box behind the helmet holder. I unplugged mine and the current drain dropped instantly from 200ma to zero. I replaced the whole kit and caboodle with a Viper system with electronic door and boot popping and a proximity detection system and the battery still lasts for months without charging, although I do tend to leave it on a timed trickle charge over the winter months when it gets no outings. It is ridiculous that a modern vehicle should be fitted out from new with an alarm that can kill a fully charged battery in less than a month.

It comes as no surprise if you Google search Pistonheads using either 'battery drain' & 'Meta alarm' as your search terms you get literally pages and pages of people suffering such issues with their mid 90's Meta equipped TVRs, these post go back some 10 years or more right up to the present day.

I believe Carl Baker of 'TVR Alarms' is now in France but still offers his services from Taylor TVR on occasion, for many years he built a whole business around ripping out what TVR put in badly and reinstalling a newer Meta system properly, David of HF has also been around for years solving TVR alarm issues for the public and helping TVR repair specialists alike, he seems to have taken over where Carl left off. Finally you have Abacus Alarms in South London who offer a DIY plug & play Meta solution along with some good background on how TVR got the wiring wrong, and how to rectify their mistakes!

It's worth reading "The car fails to start when the engine is hot (TVR's)" in the link below where Abacus explain the wiring mistakes made by TVR.

Abacus goes on to say...."Problems arise because TVR have wired the immobiliser circuits the wrong way around"

http://www.abacuscaralarms.co.uk/tvr-alarms.html

This is probably why I still get at least three PMs a month asking for my bypass instructions that completely fixed my no-start issues some five years ago, an element of my Meta system that has remained 100% reliable ever since because it's actually doing nothing. These instructions have subsequently gone on the help hundreds of other TVR Griff & Chimaera owners with similar issues all for the cost of a few connectors. It's always nice to get the thank you emails when people follow my simple instructions and fix their no-start issue for absolutely nothing, rather than resorting to spending the £500 - £600 the TVR alarm specialists will charge you for a completely new and correctly installed system.... which by the way I'm always clear to point out always remains the best solution if you can afford it/justify the cost that is

As we all know TVR were massively ridiculed in period for producing unreliable cars, this unreliability stigma has actually been so permanently burnt into the national psyche that even today if you mention you own a TVR in a social setting people will suck their teeth and tell you TVRs are very unreliable cars, and I'm not even talking car people here, sadly it's the default piece of knowledge everyone seems to hold regarding the TVR brand.

Just the other day I was sat having a pint outside a local pub on a village green with the car parked right out front, two guys came out to smoke and started to talk about mt Chimaera, I just kept quiet and listened, sure enough the more alfa male of the two keen to show his superior car knowledge starts telling his mate how while he liked TVRs he would never own one because they're so unreliable. Of course the poor TVR reliability thing didn't just fall from the sky, it was based on fact and the thousands of posts on PH discussing starting/alarm or locking issues seem to point to much of it emanating from the Meta system and/or how TVR wired these cars, I guess that's how such a low volume sports car can effectively support three TVR alarm specialists in the UK.

With such a huge body of evidence I really can't see how anyone could defend the TVR wiring and remain credible, I'm not saying anything here we don't already know deep down ourselves, while we all understandably want to defend the brand because we love our TVRs the reality is 'denial gets you nowhere' and its my experience excepting something was badly done in the first place is always the best starting point to putting it right.

I titled this post.... "Fekin Pish Poor TVR Wiring Again!" ..... and I firmly stand by my words.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Tuesday 18th April 11:55

[ChimpOnGas]

Penelope Stopit said:

How are you getting on with solving this problem?

TBH I just disconnected the door switches and the locking & unlocking function returned as did the long lost panic button on the central door release. This panic button hasn't worked for years and clearly the central locking/alarm unit was creating a huge drain as the car's idle quality and drivability has greatly improved since I disconnected the door switches.

While admittedly I currently have no interior light when I open the doors this is the only negative to disconnecting the door switches and I can turn it on manually, the other results are just possessives and as the objective of all this was to get my car locking and unlocking without resorting to spending a big chunk of money this is the way it'll stay for the time being.

I also fitted my new 120 amp alternator which is performing much better than the old original that had been reconditioned once already some 10 years ago or more, when I removed it the bearing sounded nasty so clearly it was on the way out. The car is driving, idling and performing the best it ever has and all I've spent is £100 on the new Denso 120 amp alternator.

While I'd never argue disconnecting the door switches is a complete fix and I will as some point get David of HF to sort it properly, for now at least I'm more happy with my resolution to the immediate issue... and I see the drivability improvements as a fantastic unexpected bonus.