Plug extender alternative?

[SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03]

Does anyone know wher to get wider socks ? I have the ford ones which are wider .

[Sardonicus]

Look at this website Daz that where my ones came from no complaints here http://www.designengineering.com/category/catalog/...

[andy43]

bobfather said:

Ceramic is strongest under compression so they should be removed by exerting force at the base. Perhaps devise a puller that can slip down the sides and hook under the lower lip

They do exist, grips around the base of the ceramic part - just bought one to see if it's any good

[cp81]

Came across these....

https://www.agriemach.com/c7-heat-and-sound-insula...

[SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03]

Sardonicus said:

Look at this website Daz that where my ones came from no complaints here http://www.designengineering.com/category/catalog/...

They told me to buy them from Demon Tweaks.

[bobfather]

cp81 said:

Came across these....

https://www.agriemach.com/c7-heat-and-sound-insula...

This is the sort of thing I looked for. Heat reflective outer. But those look too short

[Steve_D]

SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03 said:

Does anyone know wher to get wider socks ? I have the ford ones which are wider .

These mentioned earlier look to be made from the material normally used on the underside of bonnets and side of engine bay.
On that basis you could make some up to your own size.


https://www.agriemach.com/c7-heat-and-sound-insula...

Steve

[wseed]

It turns out the protective sleeves I bought from China are not the best so am looking at alternatives. Looking at one of the posts above of a short metallic sleeve would there be an issue using something like this?

It looks like cut down it would offer protection from the radiant heat but I'm wondering what implications there might be using a conductive material.

[ChimpOnGas]

wseed said:

It turns out the protective sleeves I bought from China are not the best so am looking at alternatives. Looking at one of the posts above of a short metallic sleeve would there be an issue using something like this?

It looks like cut down it would offer protection from the radiant heat but I'm wondering what implications there might be using a conductive material.

I really wouldn't bother trying to re-invent the wheel when the problem has already been solved.

1. MSD Super Conductor leads

2. MSD Pro-Heat Guard Sleeve over the top

3. DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots over the lot

Some four years ago now I was able to completely eliminate the nasty problematic extenders using this combination and its proven itself to be 100% reliable over an extended period of real world testing running the car for thousands of miles on LPG, a fuel that will soon expose any weaknesses in an ignition system.

• The MSD Super Conductors are great HT leads and their grey silicone plug ends are extremely heat resistant in themselves.

• The MSD Pro-Heat Guard Sleeve adds another line of defense and completely protects the vulnerable part of the lead itself, cut generous lengths from the roll and you'll enjoy lead protection a good 10" up from the plug end.

• The DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots are the best plug sock you can buy and are significantly better than the cheap woven fiberglass ones I've used in the past, they are there as a belt and braces third line of defense.

There's really no need to look for a new solution when this system completely proves you can ditch the dreadful failure prone plug extenders and never have a problem, I'd like to think four years and thousands of miles of trouble free service on an RV8 engine burning a fuel that's much harder on ignition components than petrol would give people confidence to just replicate my recipe?


The excellent and highly heat resistant MSD Super Conductor leads:




The MSD Pro-Heat Guard Sleeve:




Slip the MSD Pro-Heat Guard Sleeve over the lead, I'm mid way through sliding the sleeve on here so the photo doesn't show it but when fully fitted the sleeve goes right over and to the very end of the grey Super Conductor plug end:




The DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots go of the top of that lot acting as a belt & braces last line of defense (over-kill really):




And here's completed double protected system that to this day remains totally reliable and 100% impervious to whatever punishment the hot header pipes serve up:




And finally I trust people will agree the above conclusively proves the old wives tale you need airflow around the plug ends & heat protective socks is utter nonsense, if you want 100% reliability then my properly insulated and protected double skinned recipe over high quality HT leads (with plug ends that are themselves very heat resistant) is the totally proven way to delete your plug extenders.

[wseed]

Thanks CoG I'd seen your previous post re these. I found that the socks got scorched where they where in contact with the headers. I think you run without cats and that your manifolds are possibly cooler than with them in .

It could of course be that the socks I bought are garbage. I've reverted to the set that Qbee kindly loaned me.

[ChimpOnGas]

wseed said:

Thanks CoG I'd seen your previous post re these. I found that the socks got scorched where they where in contact with the headers. I think you run without cats and that your manifolds are possibly cooler than with them in .

It could of course be that the socks I bought are garbage. I've reverted to the set that Qbee kindly loaned me.

Four observational points based on your above photo:

• You're not using the straight MSD Super Conductor I'm recommending, MSD Super Conductors are super heat resistant and allow you to bend their ends a little which ensures the perfect fit, this is why I started with a straight ended lead set

• Your socks are on backwards, the metal ring in the socks are designed to go at the spark plug end

• You're not using the MSD Pro-Heat Guard Sleeve I'm recommending

• By the look of it you may be using cheaper fiberglass socks that just look like my socks because they're the same colour, rather than the vastly superior DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots I'm recommending, please correct me if I'm wrong here?

As such what you're running there is a long way off the recipe I've recommended and as a consistence while it might look similar it is in practice and in performance terms a completely different setup. The scorching itself should not necessarily be a cause for concern but you definitely will not suffer it if you're using the DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots I recommend, I have used cheaper fiberglass socks but switched to the DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots which I've found to be vastly superior.

The scorching you see on the cheaper socks is the dye burning out of woven fiberglass material they're made from, they turn white because white is the original & natural colour of the fiberglass. The DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boot is a completely different animal, it's made from a unique material that comes from mined lava rock so they simply do not scorch, actually they can't scorch like the cheaper dyed fiberglass socks because DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots are not dyed.

The titanium colour is the natural colour of the mined lava rock material they're made from, beware cheaper socks that look the same colour as the DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots, they will just be woven fiberglass socks dyed to look like DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots. But like I say don't get too hung up on scorching it's really just a reaction between the header heat and the dye used, it's a cosmetic annoyance but shouldn't be confused with a lack of performance.

A scorched fiberglass sock while looking unsightly will actually continue to perform in the exact same way as it did when new and un-scorched, the material itself hasn't changed by the scorching it's just lost it's dye which is purely added for cosmetic reasons, if the scorching really bothers and you want to stick with cheaper fiberglass socks then simply buy un-dyed socks that will be a white colour from new.

To understand the real difference between fiberglass socks and the DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots with lava rock technology you need to study their specifications:

• DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots will handle heat up to 1800°F (983°C)

• Dyed fiberglass socks will handle heat up to 1200°F (649°C)

At this point it's useful to understand exhaust gas temperatures, I run two exhaust gas temperature probes one in each manifold and the readings seldom exceed 1000°F but my sensors are where my pre-cats once lived so are a long way forward of the header pipes where the plug ends must exist, measured with a probe in the header pipe right out of the engine will show around 1300°F under load and with lean conditions can go as high as 1400°F, bare in mind this is without cats so will be a lot higher with all three cats present.

Of course these figures are for the temperature of the gas itself and heat will be lost to the steel header pipe itself, but even with no cats the gasses passing through them will be in the order of 1300°F - 1400°F, with the cats in place these figures will only be higher so using a sock that's only rated at 1200°F could easily be considered under specified. Switch to the 1800°F DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots and rather than running a fiberglass sock right on the ragged edge of it's upper performance limit you immediately give yourself a huge margin of safety.

So while fiberglass socks are running right on the edge of their 1200°F specified limit the 1800°F DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots are actually operating at a huge 600°F under their capability which I've proved after four years of testing means they not only perform better but offer significantly enhanced longevity. Now use the excellent performing MSD super conductor HT leads with their extremely heat resistant plug ends then put MSD Pro-Heat Guard Sleeve over the top of them and you've got a double layer of protection, each of these two elements being rated to resist 1000°F. Finally put the 1800°F DEI Titanium Protect-A-Boots over the top and you've created a massively over specified triple layer of protection that actually offers far superior protection to the dreadful failure prone spark plug extenders originally used by TVR.

And I don't think you can even buy extenders anymore, which is a good thing in my book; ACT, Racetech & TVR Parts aren't listing plug extenders anymore probably because they can't get hold them themselves and they've had that many returned by disgruntled customers that Racetech & TVR Parts have both now switched to offering sets of ACCEL ceramic HT leads instead. These ACCEL ceramic leads are an idea they nicked from this forum by the way, which shows the TVR parts specialists read these pages as much as the true enthusiasts/TVR owners do.

In summary if you follow my recipe to the letter you'll enjoy the same 100% reliability and heat protection that I've been running for the last four years, change the recipe and switch to cheaper and inferior parts and you really can't expect to enjoy the same results. Saying all that my solution isn't cheap and it's certainly over specified, I'm sure people can delete the extenders without spending what I did and still enjoy some good results, it's just I got so fed up with the dreadful extenders failing, poor quality leads (Magnecor KV85 reds) and cheap fiberglass socks I wanted to solve the problem once and for all with zero margin for future failure.

Finally a word of warning:

I've proved the much hyped Magnecor KV85 HT leads will fail even when running extenders and then protecting them with socks too, I thought I was buying top quality leads but as it turns out they were utter junk, you've been warned!





Magnecor market their KV85 leads as the best you can get, especially if you're running LPG which soon sorts out the men from the boys in the world of ignition components. They're probably Ok on petrol running a distributor and the original single canister coil but on LPG running wasted spark and 40,000v MSD coil packs even using extenders and socks over the top I blew my expensive Magnecor leads up up in no time at all , I was also very disappointed with Magnecor as even facing photographic evidence the owner of Magnecor UK still refused to honor their lifetime guarantee... AVOID!

Good luck with it, Dave

[wseed]

Thanks for the info Dave you are indeed correct the parts I got where cheap junk from China although the leads where not so cheap junk from a landrover dealer. All now ditched. I've now got a set of leads that have cured my miss fire and run well I just want to offer them protection.

Regarding the plug extenders I've found a source and just contemplating if it's worth spending £40 on a set or not. There's so much conflicting info some saying the resistance is needed for a standard petrol engine and some saying the opposite.

[Englishman]

As with many posts on PH, you tend to hear about problems rather than average experiences.

My personal experience of running with standard land rover leads and plug extenders on two Griff 500's both with all Cats still in place, is two extenders being replaced as a result of faults being detected on the dealers tuning equipment (I hadn't noticed a driving issue) in 19 years and well over 100K miles.

So, providing you can get OE quality replacements rather than the cheap ones on the bay, I'd just replace the failing extenders.

If I had to replace the lot though, I'd go for the ceramic option now.

Edited by Englishman on Friday 26th May 12:09

[QBee]

Englishman said:

As with many posts on PH, you tend to hear about problems rather than average experiences.

My personal experience of running with standard land rover leads and plug extenders on two Griff 500's both with all Cats still in place, is two extenders being replaced as a result of faults being detected on the dealers tuning equipment (I hadn't noticed a driving issue) in 19 years and well over 100K miles.

So, providing you can get OE quality replacements rather than the cheap ones on the bay, I'd just replace the failing extenders.

If I had to replace the lot though, I'd go for the ceramic option now.

Edited by Englishman on Friday 26th May 12:09

Not picking an argument with you, different sets will behave differently. My replacement set, bought in March 2015 from Powers were the real thing, Beru, but we're one of the many faulty sets around that time - 6 failed over the next 6 months. I then went to socks and am now on ceramics from Racetech.

[QBee]

wseed said:

Thanks for the info Dave you are indeed correct the parts I got where cheap junk from China although the leads where not so cheap junk from a landrover dealer. All now ditched. I've now got a set of leads that have cured my miss fire and run well I just want to offer them protection.

Regarding the plug extenders I've found a source and just contemplating if it's worth spending £40 on a set or not. There's so much conflicting info some saying the resistance is needed for a standard petrol engine and some saying the opposite.

You can put resistive into the loop by using NGK plugs with an R in the code.....so BPR6ES, or EIX that I use.

[Englishman]

QBee said:

Not picking an argument with you, different sets will behave differently. My replacement set, bought in March 2015 from Powers were the real thing, Beru, but we're one of the many faulty sets around that time - 6 failed over the next 6 months. I then went to socks and am now on ceramics from Racetech.

No offence taken! Just trying to give my personal experience to help the OP reach a decision that is right for him. Extenders are another of the items that get bashed on these forums from time to time. If it is said often enough, people, especially those with limited experience of the marque, start taking what is written by a few as true in all cases.

I'm aware that some owners have experienced issues, largely, like you, from replacement parts it seems, but In the case of my current Griff ('99 car), six of the eight extenders are original and still fine after 18 years which I certainly don't regard as a bad lifespan.

Having said that, as above, if they do eventually fail I will replace with the ceramic option.

[Sardonicus]

Englishman said:

QBee said:

Not picking an argument with you, different sets will behave differently. My replacement set, bought in March 2015 from Powers were the real thing, Beru, but we're one of the many faulty sets around that time - 6 failed over the next 6 months. I then went to socks and am now on ceramics from Racetech.

No offence taken! Just trying to give my personal experience to help the OP reach a decision that is right for him. Extenders are another of the items that get bashed on these forums from time to time. If it is said often enough, people, especially those with limited experience of the marque, start taking what is written by a few as true in all cases.

I'm aware that some owners have experienced issues, largely, like you, from replacement parts it seems, but In the case of my current Griff ('99 car), six of the eight extenders are original and still fine after 18 years which I certainly don't regard as a bad lifespan.

Having said that, as above, if they do eventually fail I will replace with the ceramic option.

The old ones are proper quality I never had issues with mine either they was dull ugly looking things on purchase of my car and stayed on for years in my hands, and as far as I know are still fitted to a Griffith somewhere along with my dizzy and amp, I changed them as a preventive measure to a new set and 2 went down after a few weeks and this was years ago so the crap ones have been spewing out for years, I also no longer use them in any form I gave the good 6 away ended up fitted the original 8 when I was still using em

[Classic Chim]

It you use decent socks on almost any boots and keep them suspended off the manifolds with subtle small cable ties etc they will all last years. I don't honestly think the heat is that much more oppressive than many other engine bays. The sooner the extenders are ditched the better and it's only when the leads touch exhaust cause issues. Keep em off the exhausts and it's no big deal it seems to me.

[SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03]

Sardonicus said:

Look at this website Daz that where my ones came from no complaints here http://www.designengineering.com/category/catalog/...

Got a reply back from them , they told me to shop at Demon Tweaks , they have the wider socks.

[Lolo256]

N7GTX said:

More than 2 years and absolutely no problems:

Hi,
I took inspiration on this pic and also another post to remove my extenders (thx again n7gtx)...

I have some msd plug wires + boot sleaves + volcano sockets fitted... when i first start the engine i've got some smoke going out of these sets... so i shuted the engine out quickly...

Do you think my volcano sockets and or msd sleaves or "connectors cap" could get a bit of smoke (light smiling cigaret like smoke for connaissor) on first start or do i have a real heat related problem (bad volcano sockets or other?).

Thanks!