Aftermarket ECUs

[QBee]

These are my graphs at 2.5 psi, 6 psi and 7.5 psi. Boost restricted by me to protect the engine. This is the joy of the switchable maps on the Emerald.
Note that Jools' rolling road doubles the torque axis when graphing cars with so MUCH torque - my previous 5 litre engine produced 355 ft lbs, this one on the 395 bhp graph produces 525 ft lbs.

[Litcoat]

I've had a look and it's jammed in tight against the battery, if things are running well is it advisable to disconnect it and then reattach

Cheers Mark

[QBee]

Litcoat said:

I've had a look and it's jammed in tight against the battery, if things are running well is it advisable to disconnect it and then reattach

Cheers Mark

If it's running well, no.

It's only if you have bad running issues that a reset is a good idea. It's a computer, so normal rules of technical support apply - "have you switched it off and switched it on again?". Only, to turn the ECU off and on you actually need to disconnect it.

[macdeb]

There is nothing wrong with MS, have you seen what MS3 can do? Problem with MS is some diy installs aren't the best hence why some mappers are reluctant to touch. Find the right guy though (Dale Bailey at Baileymotorsport) and you'll have no problems. My last dyno run the guy said the fuelling was spot on throughout, the best he'd seen all the way up to 573hp.

Edited by macdeb on Sunday 2nd July 17:29

[AdriaanB]

I've converted to Canems in April - best money spent on the car. Far more consistent running, no stalling, starting or rough running issues, more power, hardly any shunting, and car performs well in hot weather/horrible London stand-still traffic. It even has way improved fuel economy (for what it's worth!).

We actually started using the TVR a lot again, which we didn't do when it was still on its original system. This despite all the experts working on it (all reputable specialists), and the money spent on it (a lot). There always seems to be a niggle and after a couple of runs, the car didn't run as nice anymore, until further issues caused new garage work.

For now, car has done a couple of thousand miles through hot weather, absolute Welsh downpours for days (including an interior soak), has done several track days (whilst driving it there and back), and has been running fully consistently in all circumstances. Also nice to reduce the shunting, so it is actually a nice interplay of low revs, high gears and natural engine torque. Nearly a normal car then

Alongside the Canems mod, I've opted for new upgraded fuel injectors and Accel ceramic plug leads (to Ditch the extenders). Not a cheap package, but it totally transformed the car for me. Has definitely restored confidence and reduced irritation!

[QBee]

Where's the "Like" button when you need it?

[macdeb]

Sardonicus said:

angus337 said:

The GEMs option does look very appealing and I'm certainly looking forward to finding out more about the installation requirements, costs and mapping software.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Megasquirt MS3 can also run full sequential fueling and ignition.

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned above is the software for the various ECUs. I do find the megasquirt software (tunerstudio and megalog vieiwer) easy to use. One of the best features for me is Autotune, which for DIY mapping I find essential.

It does full seq inj I already have my MS3X ready to be installed outing my reliable MS2E purely for better control as I plan on full seq fuel and more toys programmable inputs/outputs one I plan to have working is flat shift full throttle shifting with a clutch ECU interrupt switch fitted bit like my sports bike days quick shifters

Edited by Sardonicus on Thursday 29th June 10:33

It also does traction control

[Sardonicus]

macdeb said:

Sardonicus said:

angus337 said:

The GEMs option does look very appealing and I'm certainly looking forward to finding out more about the installation requirements, costs and mapping software.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Megasquirt MS3 can also run full sequential fueling and ignition.

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned above is the software for the various ECUs. I do find the megasquirt software (tunerstudio and megalog vieiwer) easy to use. One of the best features for me is Autotune, which for DIY mapping I find essential.

It does full seq inj I already have my MS3X ready to be installed outing my reliable MS2E purely for better control as I plan on full seq fuel and more toys programmable inputs/outputs one I plan to have working is flat shift full throttle shifting with a clutch ECU interrupt switch fitted bit like my sports bike days quick shifters

Edited by Sardonicus on Thursday 29th June 10:33

It also does traction control

Maybe with your HP but I dont need it certainly lots of toys to quote ......................................................................VE and ignition tables are both 16 x 16 with full interpolation.
0.1% steps on VE table, 0.1 degree steps on ignition table
Socket for an onboard SD card – no laptop required for data logging (SD Card not included)
Built in USB port
GM stepper IAC control
Closed loop idle and mixture control
CANBus communications for interface with GPIO Board, IO Extender, or other devices
Staged injection
Native support for many different OEM trigger patterns
This MS3 EMS already has the MS3X expansion board installed, enabling the following features:

8 Sequential fuel injection outputs. Each can drive a high impedance injector, and unused injection outputs can be put to other purposes.
8 Logic level 5 volt ignition outputs. Works with many types of ignition modules and coils, including LSx coils and our IGN-1As. Requires external module or coils with internal ignitors.
6 Medium current outputs. Use for 2 stage progressive nitrous, boost control, tach output, 3 wire idle speed control, general purpose PWM or relay control, or many other potential applications.
3 Analog inputs. Use for an external MAP sensor, second O2 sensor, fuel pressure, accelerometer, or general data logging.
4 Switch inputs. Can be used to start data logging, arm a nitrous system, switch tables, launch control, VSS input (Hall sensor or VR with external conditioner), and more.
1 Cam sensor input. Can be used with VR, Hall, or optical sensors.

[motul1974]

COSTS - I assume it safe to presume a fully fitted and set up MS3, would be in or around the cost of an Emerald system from the likes of Kitandclassics?

[Sardonicus]

motul1974 said:

COSTS - I assume it safe to presume a fully fitted and set up MS3, would be in or around the cost of an Emerald system from the likes of Kitandclassics?

Most certainly the MS3X is not cheap and for most is over kill on the RV8 anyway MS2 can run the show along with Canems Emerald DTA etc

[QBee]

motul1974 said:

COSTS - I assume it safe to presume a fully fitted and set up MS3, would be in or around the cost of an Emerald system from the likes of Kitandclassics?

You would need to ask K&C to quote, as it depends on what else you have done at the same time.
For example, I had a wide band lambda installed, a 3 map switch and bigger injectors bought and fitted.

[macdeb]

Sardonicus said:

aybe with your HP but I dont need it certainly lots of toys to quote ......................................................................VE and ignition tables are both 16 x 16 with full interpolation.
0.1% steps on VE table, 0.1 degree steps on ignition table
Socket for an onboard SD card – no laptop required for data logging (SD Card not included)
Built in USB port
GM stepper IAC control
Closed loop idle and mixture control
CANBus communications for interface with GPIO Board, IO Extender, or other devices
Staged injection
Native support for many different OEM trigger patterns
This MS3 EMS already has the MS3X expansion board installed, enabling the following features:

8 Sequential fuel injection outputs. Each can drive a high impedance injector, and unused injection outputs can be put to other purposes.
8 Logic level 5 volt ignition outputs. Works with many types of ignition modules and coils, including LSx coils and our IGN-1As. Requires external module or coils with internal ignitors.
6 Medium current outputs. Use for 2 stage progressive nitrous, boost control, tach output, 3 wire idle speed control, general purpose PWM or relay control, or many other potential applications.
3 Analog inputs. Use for an external MAP sensor, second O2 sensor, fuel pressure, accelerometer, or general data logging.
4 Switch inputs. Can be used to start data logging, arm a nitrous system, switch tables, launch control, VSS input (Hall sensor or VR with external conditioner), and more.
1 Cam sensor input. Can be used with VR, Hall, or optical sensors.

Too many rubbish it on hearsay or with vested interest. Mine did everything I needed.

[Sardonicus]

macdeb said:

Sardonicus said:

aybe with your HP but I dont need it certainly lots of toys to quote ......................................................................VE and ignition tables are both 16 x 16 with full interpolation.
0.1% steps on VE table, 0.1 degree steps on ignition table
Socket for an onboard SD card – no laptop required for data logging (SD Card not included)
Built in USB port
GM stepper IAC control
Closed loop idle and mixture control
CANBus communications for interface with GPIO Board, IO Extender, or other devices
Staged injection
Native support for many different OEM trigger patterns
This MS3 EMS already has the MS3X expansion board installed, enabling the following features:

8 Sequential fuel injection outputs. Each can drive a high impedance injector, and unused injection outputs can be put to other purposes.
8 Logic level 5 volt ignition outputs. Works with many types of ignition modules and coils, including LSx coils and our IGN-1As. Requires external module or coils with internal ignitors.
6 Medium current outputs. Use for 2 stage progressive nitrous, boost control, tach output, 3 wire idle speed control, general purpose PWM or relay control, or many other potential applications.
3 Analog inputs. Use for an external MAP sensor, second O2 sensor, fuel pressure, accelerometer, or general data logging.
4 Switch inputs. Can be used to start data logging, arm a nitrous system, switch tables, launch control, VSS input (Hall sensor or VR with external conditioner), and more.
1 Cam sensor input. Can be used with VR, Hall, or optical sensors.

Too many rubbish it on hearsay or with vested interest. Mine did everything I needed.

Exactly Mac and I have never heard of one fail in our circles which pitches the reliability same as the rest if I was to moan about anything I would say the DB37 /DB15 style computer sourced plugs good be improved but they dont give bother so why try Tuner studio software is just fantastic especially the paid for one (but is its cheap to purchase) more functions , I cant knock any of them really they all do what they say be it Emerald Canems etc its just what you want that counts i.e like the fact that upgrades are cheap and easy and all based on the original sound platform

Edited by Sardonicus on Monday 3rd July 17:19

[motul1974]

Speaking very much as 'Google' home mechanic ONLY, I like the idea of having knock sensors and fully sequential injection. I know it's not needed, but that doesn't stop me wanting what's 'better'!
I very keen on the Gems option, but just wondered about this as a ready to go alternative.

[angus337]

From what I can gather, Gems is a good option on if you have a cross bolted block, which has the correct housing for the engine speed sensor which uses a ring on the flywheel, rather than the crank based trigger wheel that most aftermarket systems use. Even with this you would still need to replace or modify the fly wheel.

Cam position sensor might also be an issue, the gems sensor requires the correct timing cover. MS3 sequential can take the cam position from a modified distributor pickup, not sure if this would be possible with Gems, but pretty sure Mark Adams would be able to help.

My ECU (MS2) has a knock sensor input, but I've never got round to settimg this up.

Edited by angus337 on Monday 3rd July 18:47

[carsy]

The Gems does sound good and i shall be having a good look at it when the to do guide hits these pages, but i take it you cannot get into the maps yourself to modify the fueling table etc. I`m assuming you get the afr target table that Mark Adams puts in it for you. Yes no ?????

This is ok as long as your engine likes what MA has put into it. We all know in the low 1-2k rpm area some like more fuel than others.

I`ve been out in mine today for a mess and i`ve richened that low speed / light throttle running up to 12.5 afr. I was at 13.5. A huge improvement with zero shunting. Pretty much perfect.

[Boosted LS1]

As an aside for those running coil on plug have you considered an LS ecu? Obviously it would need recalibrating for fuelling and some spark alterations but I've just bought an Efi Live package for an ls engine. I'm quite amazed at what can be done. The ecu's cost peanuts and some are 58T

https://www.efilive.com/product-info-efilive-tunin...

It's quite a lot to get to grips with, well for me it is :-)

[Twistygit]

Hi, I remember seeing a full DIY kit think it was with kits and classics but can't seem to find it, have they stopped doing it?

[Classic Chim]

Sprint arrived yesterday with what looks like a comprehensive article on the Gems set up. This thread just got interesting I'll have a good read later

[carsy]

I wonder if 450 Nick can post his "how to" on the Gems install now that its been published in Sprint.

450 Nick