Aftermarket ECUs
Discussion
Excellent article. I really hope this takes off.
As the Gems system was not used for long are there still new parts available, things like the AFM etc. I'm just asking what the availability will be like going forward.
Two years to late for me as Ive already replaced my Ecu.
I think it's important to note this car is supercharged as my experience so far is mines not needed re mapping for almost two years now.
It seems the issues over fuelling and re map sessions has led to this rather fantastic development and it's clearly a step above the rest in its abilities, knock sensors etc and self mapping suggests continued excellence just getting better by the day.
I've not really driven my Mbe equipped car for a number of weeks since setting a personal record on the drag strip. It lives outside in all weathers and has been brilliant for these last two years since it was mapped, 2600 mile road trip to France and I've covered over 10,000 miles since install, yesterday I did almost 150 miles in the midday sun on country roads and I still can't fault the mapping on a daily basis from winter to summer so that part of the article does have me now wondering if mine could be even better, but driving yesterday with a permanent grin on my face and an ear always and totally focused on my engine note and it's firing fuelling etc does have me begging the question could mine actually be better than it is already.
It's pretty obvious from a technical perspective the Gems is going to do an even better job but it's also True to say that maps produced for more standard N/A engines by engine mappers who have been tweaking them for years and in many cars are a very close match straight out the box. My friends home installed Canams fired up on Lloyds generic map and ran surprisingly well. Only one session at Lloyds tweaking the map and the car was good to go. He even drove it down there as he had an afr gauge confirming fuelling was within parimeters. from what I remember he said it shunted a bit but drove remarkably well considering it's a best guess map. He'd changed cam and crank shells and stuff too.
Tuned or forced induction cars do present a different ball game I suspect.
Really enjoyed reading the article and I hope others follow the lead and show us what it's capable of, asking for hp figures seems pointless as the car in question is a long way from standard which shows how good this system must be
As the Gems system was not used for long are there still new parts available, things like the AFM etc. I'm just asking what the availability will be like going forward.
Two years to late for me as Ive already replaced my Ecu.
I think it's important to note this car is supercharged as my experience so far is mines not needed re mapping for almost two years now.
It seems the issues over fuelling and re map sessions has led to this rather fantastic development and it's clearly a step above the rest in its abilities, knock sensors etc and self mapping suggests continued excellence just getting better by the day.
I've not really driven my Mbe equipped car for a number of weeks since setting a personal record on the drag strip. It lives outside in all weathers and has been brilliant for these last two years since it was mapped, 2600 mile road trip to France and I've covered over 10,000 miles since install, yesterday I did almost 150 miles in the midday sun on country roads and I still can't fault the mapping on a daily basis from winter to summer so that part of the article does have me now wondering if mine could be even better, but driving yesterday with a permanent grin on my face and an ear always and totally focused on my engine note and it's firing fuelling etc does have me begging the question could mine actually be better than it is already.
It's pretty obvious from a technical perspective the Gems is going to do an even better job but it's also True to say that maps produced for more standard N/A engines by engine mappers who have been tweaking them for years and in many cars are a very close match straight out the box. My friends home installed Canams fired up on Lloyds generic map and ran surprisingly well. Only one session at Lloyds tweaking the map and the car was good to go. He even drove it down there as he had an afr gauge confirming fuelling was within parimeters. from what I remember he said it shunted a bit but drove remarkably well considering it's a best guess map. He'd changed cam and crank shells and stuff too.
Tuned or forced induction cars do present a different ball game I suspect.
Really enjoyed reading the article and I hope others follow the lead and show us what it's capable of, asking for hp figures seems pointless as the car in question is a long way from standard which shows how good this system must be
Edited by Classic Chim on Sunday 9th July 09:41
I suppose that depends on how much work is put into standardised parts. If the demand were there, the best thing to do would be to produce loom pin board so that they could be knocked out to order, and then add a kit of parts including all sensors, flywheel etc etc so that it could become a bolt on kit. The work has been done so there are no unknowns, it just needs a bit of leg work in producing some kits. It does take time however so I'm sure it would require some money putting down up front to cover the development costs as Mark's company is very small and he can't afford to take big risks with his time. It's definitely doable though!
I enjoyed the GEMS article in sprint magazine, and I was momentarily sold, but I think I am more likely to go for Canems, MBE or Emerald.
Essentially, are there many people who can map GEMS?
Ancient laptops and not widely available software needed?
Also, I don't want to use secondhand GEMS bits, so not sure what it would cost for all new, probably comparable to the aftermarket
Seems like a faff when there are 2-3 proven kits available.
I fitted an Omex 600 to my 1966 Alfa, and that was simple enough but took some time. That also has 8 plugs, but on a 4 banger.
Omex is another to consider, but there seem to have been less fitted to the RV8
Essentially, are there many people who can map GEMS?
Ancient laptops and not widely available software needed?
Also, I don't want to use secondhand GEMS bits, so not sure what it would cost for all new, probably comparable to the aftermarket
Seems like a faff when there are 2-3 proven kits available.
I fitted an Omex 600 to my 1966 Alfa, and that was simple enough but took some time. That also has 8 plugs, but on a 4 banger.
Omex is another to consider, but there seem to have been less fitted to the RV8
urquattroGus said:
I enjoyed the GEMS article in sprint magazine, and I was momentarily sold, but I think I am more likely to go for Canems, MBE or Emerald.
Essentially, are there many people who can map GEMS?
Ancient laptops and not widely available software needed?
Also, I don't want to use secondhand GEMS bits, so not sure what it would cost for all new, probably comparable to the aftermarket
Seems like a faff when there are 2-3 proven kits available.
I fitted an Omex 600 to my 1966 Alfa, and that was simple enough but took some time. That also has 8 plugs, but on a 4 banger.
Omex is another to consider, but there seem to have been less fitted to the RV8
All fair points, but I guess that the point I was trying to make with the article is that you shouldn't need to map GEMS; Rover engineers spent a long time putting the maps together for Rover V8s, so any work by Mark is simply to ensure that the map is scaled correctly for your engine (I was using far bigger injectors than GEMS was used to for example). If you're not miles from a standard engine then GEMS will set its self up, and the idea is that it is OEM quality - you won't need anyone to look at the map, ever. The most you'll need is diagnostics, which any garage can do via an OBD reader. You also don't need to use second hand bits, you can find everything you need new from a Land Rover parts dealer, but it will make things more expensive. My plan was to start with second hand bits in case I broke something while test fitting and playing with the installation, and I have spares of most things, but to be honest it works well now so I'll leave all of the parts in place for now.Essentially, are there many people who can map GEMS?
Ancient laptops and not widely available software needed?
Also, I don't want to use secondhand GEMS bits, so not sure what it would cost for all new, probably comparable to the aftermarket
Seems like a faff when there are 2-3 proven kits available.
I fitted an Omex 600 to my 1966 Alfa, and that was simple enough but took some time. That also has 8 plugs, but on a 4 banger.
Omex is another to consider, but there seem to have been less fitted to the RV8
It's difficult to explain on here, but having spoken to Mark at length about these systems, and having looked at the sheer number of parameters in that old software, it is miles beyond anything in the aftermarket. It is literally staggering what it considers in the map, and you can literally feel it tweeking the map every time you drive it for the first couple of hundred miles. I played with my Emerald on the laptop a lot to smooth out lumps and bumps with some good results, but this is on a completely different level. It sounds like a faff but it is so worth it.
Edited by 450Nick on Tuesday 11th July 11:39
Following this thread with interest, although I am looking at Megasquirt as the 'distance from an installer' part is my only option.
Looking at the the versions available, of the 3, which one do I need to look at, MS1, 2 or 3? Wasted spark, semi-sequential etc
I also see that V8 developments have produced plug and play options which drop straight into the car, a fuel only one and one with ignition as well.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/injection...
These are more expensive than the Extra EFI ones even though they look the same. What am I missing here?
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/products/RV8_kits.html
Looking at the the versions available, of the 3, which one do I need to look at, MS1, 2 or 3? Wasted spark, semi-sequential etc
I also see that V8 developments have produced plug and play options which drop straight into the car, a fuel only one and one with ignition as well.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/injection...
These are more expensive than the Extra EFI ones even though they look the same. What am I missing here?
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/products/RV8_kits.html
jazzdude said:
Following this thread with interest, although I am looking at Megasquirt as the 'distance from an installer' part is my only option.
Looking at the the versions available, of the 3, which one do I need to look at, MS1, 2 or 3? Wasted spark, semi-sequential etc
I also see that V8 developments have produced plug and play options which drop straight into the car, a fuel only one and one with ignition as well.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/injection...
These are more expensive than the Extra EFI ones even though they look the same. What am I missing here?
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/products/RV8_kits.html
Even more reason to use GEMS... You just wire it up, get sent the ECU in the post then plug it in and drive it, no base maps, no rolling roads if your engine isn't super modified. Mark sends them all over the world for other cars (off road racers, Range Rovers, Morgans, race cars etc...)Looking at the the versions available, of the 3, which one do I need to look at, MS1, 2 or 3? Wasted spark, semi-sequential etc
I also see that V8 developments have produced plug and play options which drop straight into the car, a fuel only one and one with ignition as well.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/injection...
These are more expensive than the Extra EFI ones even though they look the same. What am I missing here?
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/products/RV8_kits.html
I'm no mechanic, but generally confident to have a go at anything. After Nicks article and his general advise on here, not to mention chatting to Mark Adams, who incidentally was super infirmative offering future help in anyway he could....I feel quite happy to tackle the install myself. I'll need very much a plug and play parts, but their all available.
The biggest pig I see is having to replace the flywheel and the costs associated with it, but, being as I'm planning a body off chassis refurbished over the winter, I seems prudent to replace the clutch at the same time, with the bonus of lightening the flywheel - win win for me, bar the money side, but that's where man maths comes in to play! 😉
Man maths is also to blame for me buying a BRAND NEW ECU from Mark - not strictly necessary, but 'whilst I'm at it, I might as well'!
The development of my car has always been with and eye on improvement, sort of version 2.1, or a chim mk4 and I see the Gems fitting in with this direction perfectly.
Cost is a little unknown however, but I'm confident it should be under the 2k mark, which will include a nice new shinny clutch and lightened flywheel - what's not to be impressed with that!
The biggest pig I see is having to replace the flywheel and the costs associated with it, but, being as I'm planning a body off chassis refurbished over the winter, I seems prudent to replace the clutch at the same time, with the bonus of lightening the flywheel - win win for me, bar the money side, but that's where man maths comes in to play! 😉
Man maths is also to blame for me buying a BRAND NEW ECU from Mark - not strictly necessary, but 'whilst I'm at it, I might as well'!
The development of my car has always been with and eye on improvement, sort of version 2.1, or a chim mk4 and I see the Gems fitting in with this direction perfectly.
Cost is a little unknown however, but I'm confident it should be under the 2k mark, which will include a nice new shinny clutch and lightened flywheel - what's not to be impressed with that!
motul1974 said:
I'm no mechanic, but generally confident to have a go at anything. After Nicks article and his general advise on here, not to mention chatting to Mark Adams, who incidentally was super infirmative offering future help in anyway he could....I feel quite happy to tackle the install myself. I'll need very much a plug and play parts, but their all available.
The biggest pig I see is having to replace the flywheel and the costs associated with it, but, being as I'm planning a body off chassis refurbished over the winter, I seems prudent to replace the clutch at the same time, with the bonus of lightening the flywheel - win win for me, bar the money side, but that's where man maths comes in to play! ??
Man maths is also to blame for me buying a BRAND NEW ECU from Mark - not strictly necessary, but 'whilst I'm at it, I might as well'!
The development of my car has always been with and eye on improvement, sort of version 2.1, or a chim mk4 and I see the Gems fitting in with this direction perfectly.
Cost is a little unknown however, but I'm confident it should be under the 2k mark, which will include a nice new shinny clutch and lightened flywheel - what's not to be impressed with that!
Why do you have to change the flywheel?The biggest pig I see is having to replace the flywheel and the costs associated with it, but, being as I'm planning a body off chassis refurbished over the winter, I seems prudent to replace the clutch at the same time, with the bonus of lightening the flywheel - win win for me, bar the money side, but that's where man maths comes in to play! ??
Man maths is also to blame for me buying a BRAND NEW ECU from Mark - not strictly necessary, but 'whilst I'm at it, I might as well'!
The development of my car has always been with and eye on improvement, sort of version 2.1, or a chim mk4 and I see the Gems fitting in with this direction perfectly.
Cost is a little unknown however, but I'm confident it should be under the 2k mark, which will include a nice new shinny clutch and lightened flywheel - what's not to be impressed with that!
Unfortunately GEMS has a big trigger wheel that mounts to the flywheel and uses pairs of trigger pins which run either side of the nose of the sensor. I thought about tackling this in my install as well but it seemed like a lot of potential work to engineer something to replicate it's signals, conversely its not that hard or expensive to buy a flywheel and swap it out so I decided to go with OEM.
Ah, I guessed that was the reason just after I posted. I've done Gems conversions for chevy engines including manufacturing a pulley mounted trigger wheel and sensor. It could be replicated for a rover.
The best part about the Gems is that it's designers have engineered it to cope with hot starts, freezing cold starts in really hot or cold climates. The numerous maps inside will take into account altitude, engine wear and offer the correct compensation. There will have been hundreds and hundreds of hours spent on development and then dozens of engines will have been evaluated and monitored in test rigs to find the best and safest parameters. It does offer a plug and play solution and a smooth drive more or less from the 'off' and it'll fine tune itself for you.
The best part about the Gems is that it's designers have engineered it to cope with hot starts, freezing cold starts in really hot or cold climates. The numerous maps inside will take into account altitude, engine wear and offer the correct compensation. There will have been hundreds and hundreds of hours spent on development and then dozens of engines will have been evaluated and monitored in test rigs to find the best and safest parameters. It does offer a plug and play solution and a smooth drive more or less from the 'off' and it'll fine tune itself for you.
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