Big bad TVR? Pffft!
Discussion
I was at Abingdon on Friday for a track day, and I was determined to find where the limit was in the Chim. I'd been to Castle Combe before but never got out of my comfort zone- I had a great time, but my god it's an intimidating circuit. The mission is to become proficient enough with track driving to return when I can really get on top of the car with confidence, even at 5 or 6 tenths it was a wonderful track to drive and I'd love to master it.
Anyway, I booked Abingdon so that I could enjoy the luxury of huge run-off areas without any solid objects to ruin the day! The Chim is my first RWD car, the first RWD car I've driven on track (though I do have karting experience, but once the needle shoots past 100mph that suddenly seems very irrelevant!), and of course being a TVR it desperately wants to murder me, so I had some genuine concern that once I poked it with a stick I was guaranteed to be going backwards at very high speed very promptly.
I was hugely surprised; it's a pussycat! I left the track completely satisfied that I'd reached the limit, but not once did I find myself going round in circles. Unless I was being completely lead-footed or jerky with the application of throttle, it didn't want to oversteer at all, and when it did it was more of a lazy listing than the violent snap oversteer I'd heard and read so much about. Pushing into corners at piss-taking entry speeds resulted in the front washing wide and the front tyres screaming mercy, but the car was easily balanced on the throttle. I'm absolutely not qualified to comment on the relative abilities of the car, but for a chassis that's received criticism in the past it felt balanced. I did feel that I was lacking in grip compared to the cars around me, though that may well be down to only being on fairly worn unspectacular road tyres. By the end of the day I was showing my taillights to the slower of the s1 Elises, sport Clios and MX5s which was good enough for me, if not entirely complimentary to the mighty TVR as I was still getting pretty well murdered by everything else!
I also managed to adopt heel-and-toe on track for the first time which I'm rather proud of as I never could get the hang of it. I was still totally rubbish, but I finished the day with the same clutch I started with and didn't lock the rears once so I consider that to be a victory! Although I cheated massively by doing the entire lap in 3rd save for an upshift to 4th halfway down the runway and downshift again for the chicane-into-left at the end of it. I commented to the instructor who jumped in with me that if I was better at downshifting I'd be taking 2nd for a couple of corners, but he said that there was no need with the level of torque and was probably right, from 2-2.5k revs in 3rd the RV8 would still get up and go with great aplomb. Mechanically the car was superb, the engine seemed to run really well on its new dose of Castrol 10w40 semi synthetic (cheeky dig at all the oil snobs out there!), and it was commented a few times that it was making the best noise of any car there, which is the real victory right?
it was also the first time on track for my new front brakes, basic single-pot jobbies but they were fantastic, a marked improvement on before and not having locked up once I may not even have found the limit of them yet. Well impressed!
I've no doubt at all that I'd still get completely embarrassed by all the track day regulars on here, and I've still got a lot to learn, I'm just chuffed at how nicely the car handled and how consistent I managed to be on account of its predictability. The lack of relative grip irked me a little, and I'm pretty sure now that I'm going to buy a set of road wheels so that I can wrap my current Team Dynamics in something more track-suitable. Then I'll be coming for you fellas! I've also just helped a mate unearth his car trailer which has been sat for 4 years, once we've restored it to good nick then I can hopefully blag use of it to join all you northern monkeys at the likes of Snet, Cadwell and Oulton Park. I've got no doubt that the Chim could make it that far and back without issue, but the uncertainty of having to drive back that distance with whatever damage might be sustained on track would probably put me off. It wouldn't really be worth bothering if I was pootling around gently because 'oo-er I've got to drive this home tomorrow!'
If there's a message anywhere in any of this, it's probably that I seriously advocate the Chimaera/Griffith as a track car. I understand that appreciating values will put people off, but in terms of the driving it's all glorious noise, respectable performance, lovely balance and predictable handling but without being bubble-wrapped or isolated from the experience. I wouldn't suggest going out and buying one with the intention of breaking lap records, but what a wonderful machine to thrash around in. Very happy
Also to anybody who hasn't been I really would recommend Abingdon, I wasn't expecting much especially after watching some of it on YouTube, it pretty much looked like going down a runway then weaving through some cones and seemed a bit rubbish, but in the flesh err Tarmac it was a great circuit. Flowing, rhythmic, challenging enough to be interesting, and all with that added safety blanket of having nothing to crash into should the car swap ends. Really cool place!
Anyway, I booked Abingdon so that I could enjoy the luxury of huge run-off areas without any solid objects to ruin the day! The Chim is my first RWD car, the first RWD car I've driven on track (though I do have karting experience, but once the needle shoots past 100mph that suddenly seems very irrelevant!), and of course being a TVR it desperately wants to murder me, so I had some genuine concern that once I poked it with a stick I was guaranteed to be going backwards at very high speed very promptly.
I was hugely surprised; it's a pussycat! I left the track completely satisfied that I'd reached the limit, but not once did I find myself going round in circles. Unless I was being completely lead-footed or jerky with the application of throttle, it didn't want to oversteer at all, and when it did it was more of a lazy listing than the violent snap oversteer I'd heard and read so much about. Pushing into corners at piss-taking entry speeds resulted in the front washing wide and the front tyres screaming mercy, but the car was easily balanced on the throttle. I'm absolutely not qualified to comment on the relative abilities of the car, but for a chassis that's received criticism in the past it felt balanced. I did feel that I was lacking in grip compared to the cars around me, though that may well be down to only being on fairly worn unspectacular road tyres. By the end of the day I was showing my taillights to the slower of the s1 Elises, sport Clios and MX5s which was good enough for me, if not entirely complimentary to the mighty TVR as I was still getting pretty well murdered by everything else!
I also managed to adopt heel-and-toe on track for the first time which I'm rather proud of as I never could get the hang of it. I was still totally rubbish, but I finished the day with the same clutch I started with and didn't lock the rears once so I consider that to be a victory! Although I cheated massively by doing the entire lap in 3rd save for an upshift to 4th halfway down the runway and downshift again for the chicane-into-left at the end of it. I commented to the instructor who jumped in with me that if I was better at downshifting I'd be taking 2nd for a couple of corners, but he said that there was no need with the level of torque and was probably right, from 2-2.5k revs in 3rd the RV8 would still get up and go with great aplomb. Mechanically the car was superb, the engine seemed to run really well on its new dose of Castrol 10w40 semi synthetic (cheeky dig at all the oil snobs out there!), and it was commented a few times that it was making the best noise of any car there, which is the real victory right?
it was also the first time on track for my new front brakes, basic single-pot jobbies but they were fantastic, a marked improvement on before and not having locked up once I may not even have found the limit of them yet. Well impressed!I've no doubt at all that I'd still get completely embarrassed by all the track day regulars on here, and I've still got a lot to learn, I'm just chuffed at how nicely the car handled and how consistent I managed to be on account of its predictability. The lack of relative grip irked me a little, and I'm pretty sure now that I'm going to buy a set of road wheels so that I can wrap my current Team Dynamics in something more track-suitable. Then I'll be coming for you fellas!
I've also just helped a mate unearth his car trailer which has been sat for 4 years, once we've restored it to good nick then I can hopefully blag use of it to join all you northern monkeys at the likes of Snet, Cadwell and Oulton Park. I've got no doubt that the Chim could make it that far and back without issue, but the uncertainty of having to drive back that distance with whatever damage might be sustained on track would probably put me off. It wouldn't really be worth bothering if I was pootling around gently because 'oo-er I've got to drive this home tomorrow!'If there's a message anywhere in any of this, it's probably that I seriously advocate the Chimaera/Griffith as a track car. I understand that appreciating values will put people off, but in terms of the driving it's all glorious noise, respectable performance, lovely balance and predictable handling but without being bubble-wrapped or isolated from the experience. I wouldn't suggest going out and buying one with the intention of breaking lap records, but what a wonderful machine to thrash around in. Very happy
Also to anybody who hasn't been I really would recommend Abingdon, I wasn't expecting much especially after watching some of it on YouTube, it pretty much looked like going down a runway then weaving through some cones and seemed a bit rubbish, but in the flesh err Tarmac it was a great circuit. Flowing, rhythmic, challenging enough to be interesting, and all with that added safety blanket of having nothing to crash into should the car swap ends. Really cool place!
Glad to hear that you enjoyed it, Abingdon is a good airfield track.
You are right, these cars handle very well even in standard trim..
The good news is, they can be made to handle much better. Tyres are the biggest letdown closely followed by standard suspension.
Treat yourself to a set of Toyo R888s if you feel flush or the federal RSR595s which are very reasonably priced.
You will never be able to dial out understeer in the tighter bends but can improve matters dramatically.
I always found that midway around bends on road tyres, you can introduce oversteer/understeere by just lifting and introducing more throttle which was a bit disconcerting. This totally disappears with good tyres.
I will have my car back later this week so will be up for another track day if you or anyone else fancies a bit of a winter blast.
I haven’t been on an airfield track day for years but quite happy to book one as my tyres are half worn and airfields are more aggressive on the rubber!
Saying that, they actually have more grip then a proper race track!
You are right, these cars handle very well even in standard trim..
The good news is, they can be made to handle much better. Tyres are the biggest letdown closely followed by standard suspension.
Treat yourself to a set of Toyo R888s if you feel flush or the federal RSR595s which are very reasonably priced.
You will never be able to dial out understeer in the tighter bends but can improve matters dramatically.
I always found that midway around bends on road tyres, you can introduce oversteer/understeere by just lifting and introducing more throttle which was a bit disconcerting. This totally disappears with good tyres.
I will have my car back later this week so will be up for another track day if you or anyone else fancies a bit of a winter blast.
I haven’t been on an airfield track day for years but quite happy to book one as my tyres are half worn and airfields are more aggressive on the rubber!
Saying that, they actually have more grip then a proper race track!
Sounds like you're day was as successful as mine at Rockingham, it's interesting to see how the car performs in changing conditions.
If you are going to put some trackday tyres on you will need to fit a baffled sump.
If I get my car back in time after having the Emerald system fitted I had my eye on Donington on the 20th jan £149 weather permitting.
If you are going to put some trackday tyres on you will need to fit a baffled sump.
If I get my car back in time after having the Emerald system fitted I had my eye on Donington on the 20th jan £149 weather permitting.
Edited by trev4 on Tuesday 5th December 13:08
Peter, I'd be well up for another airfield. It'd be good to pick your brains about how to best set the car up, and of course that age old issue of tyres. My car is on GGPs courtesy of Alun (ClassicChim), he's probably best placed to comment how he found them compared to all the other super duper shocks he's played with! I was eyeing up MOD Lyneham this weekend but ultimately won't be able to make it, please do give me a heads up if anything catches your eye.
Do the cornering loads get that much higher on better tyres Trev? Good to hear you went well at Rockingham, I guess the speeds there were even higher than at Combe? I'll rain check Donington but I'd like to get another airfield day or two done, remarkable how nice it felt to have all that room to play, like a weight had been lifted!
Do the cornering loads get that much higher on better tyres Trev? Good to hear you went well at Rockingham, I guess the speeds there were even higher than at Combe? I'll rain check Donington but I'd like to get another airfield day or two done, remarkable how nice it felt to have all that room to play, like a weight had been lifted!
Just a few things I have done to make it more track compliant including the power steering as it was really rubbish without it!
34 row Oil cooler with therostatic sandwich plate take off
MULFAB extended and baffled sump
Gaz Mono Dampers with Eibach 450/400 Springs
5 stud conversion
RL7 wheels 17&18" with R888s for track,
Braided hoses
Tuscan big brake conversion with DS2500 pads
Thicker 25mm & 22mm ARBs fitted
Mondeo estate rear rose joint drop links
Leven front drop links
Superflex Polyurethane bushes all round
TR Lane roll bar
Converted to electric/hydraulic PS pump,
Converted to Subaru PS rack .
Series 2 Elise seats
4 point harness fitted
Additional vents to front valance
Carbon fibre splitter to front, (forces more air into the cooler)
34 row Oil cooler with therostatic sandwich plate take off
MULFAB extended and baffled sump
Gaz Mono Dampers with Eibach 450/400 Springs
5 stud conversion
RL7 wheels 17&18" with R888s for track,
Braided hoses
Tuscan big brake conversion with DS2500 pads
Thicker 25mm & 22mm ARBs fitted
Mondeo estate rear rose joint drop links
Leven front drop links
Superflex Polyurethane bushes all round
TR Lane roll bar
Converted to electric/hydraulic PS pump,
Converted to Subaru PS rack .
Series 2 Elise seats
4 point harness fitted
Additional vents to front valance
Carbon fibre splitter to front, (forces more air into the cooler)
Hi Mike
Good to hear you had a good time. I wondered how you got on and was going to email later to ask.
I'm definitely up for more track days in the New year so happy to join you further North as and when. Still a few things to do on the car before it's back on four wheels but shouldn't take too long.
Good to hear you had a good time. I wondered how you got on and was going to email later to ask.
I'm definitely up for more track days in the New year so happy to join you further North as and when. Still a few things to do on the car before it's back on four wheels but shouldn't take too long.
Re the baffled sump, if it's something that I can fit at home for a score and a freddo bar then it seems reasonable to do, but having spoken to a couple of people running RV8 race cars on slicks they've kept the standard sump without any pressure issues so personally I'm not too enthused to throw any cash at it.
Peter that car is a work of art and certainly a mod list to drool over but although I'm working to make my car more friendly on track I'm not chasing outright speed (he says..), I'm made up with how the car handled on the cheap'n'cheerful GGPs on rose joints, the 17inch TD wheels are pleasantly light and the 300mm single pot front brakes were good enough for me, working with probably 200hp or so on carb with very mild enhancements it makes for a very characterful, enjoyable but painfully slow package. Perfect for me
tyres are an easy addition for what I hope will be a significant improvement but I need to get out with you more experienced guys I think to learn more about the effects different upgrades have as I know very little about suspension.
Liam I'll get on your case whenever another day comes up, be good to see you again. Good luck getting the car ready, I'm a source of limited knowledge but plentiful enthusiasm close by if you ever need a hand with anything
Peter that car is a work of art and certainly a mod list to drool over but although I'm working to make my car more friendly on track I'm not chasing outright speed (he says..), I'm made up with how the car handled on the cheap'n'cheerful GGPs on rose joints, the 17inch TD wheels are pleasantly light and the 300mm single pot front brakes were good enough for me, working with probably 200hp or so on carb with very mild enhancements it makes for a very characterful, enjoyable but painfully slow package. Perfect for me
tyres are an easy addition for what I hope will be a significant improvement but I need to get out with you more experienced guys I think to learn more about the effects different upgrades have as I know very little about suspension.Liam I'll get on your case whenever another day comes up, be good to see you again. Good luck getting the car ready, I'm a source of limited knowledge but plentiful enthusiasm close by if you ever need a hand with anything
CanoeSniffer said:
Re the baffled sump, if it's something that I can fit at home for a score and a freddo bar then it seems reasonable to do, but having spoken to a couple of people running RV8 race cars on slicks they've kept the standard sump without any pressure issues so personally I'm not too enthused to throw any cash at it.
You would be very unwise to use R888's or similar b list tyres in anger without a baffled sump. If you are on the limit the cornering speeds and oil surge are significantly increased and in right hand bends you will starve the engine of oil. Left hand bends are fine. To put it in perspective on good road tyres I can get about 1G lateral on my data logger. On r888's I can get 1.3 - 1.4G. I speak from bitter experience - that mistake of keeping the standard sump cost me £5,000 for a rebuild and I know a lot of other sprinters who have also done the same thing. A John eales sump is £400 and just bolts on.What Jes said. Cornering speeds are so much more with good track tyres, it is well worth investing in a baffled sump. Not a huge amount of money for peace of mind and they work!
The sump and and oil cooler are highly recommended for track days, you can get away without the rest and just build up slowly if that is what you fancy doing.
The sump and and oil cooler are highly recommended for track days, you can get away without the rest and just build up slowly if that is what you fancy doing.
Fitting a new one will save you cleaning out the black goo from the old one......
Or you could try this oil: https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1... which claims to clean out the sludge after 2 or 3 changes.
Probably cheaper to fit a baffled sump though
Or you could try this oil: https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1... which claims to clean out the sludge after 2 or 3 changes.
Probably cheaper to fit a baffled sump though
You need a proper seat... well I do
You'll be amazed at how much easier (and therefore quicker) the car is to control through the twisty bits if your arse isn't sliding around on the slippery leather seat resulting in you expending large amounts of energy manically hanging on the steering wheel rather than being able to put in smooth movements and measured corrections...
In retrospect, you mentioned karting experience so you'll know what I'm prattling on about....
Obviously ignore the above if you're a right fat b
d that's solidly wedged in once someone closes the door for you
Just my two penneth..
Chilli
You'll be amazed at how much easier (and therefore quicker) the car is to control through the twisty bits if your arse isn't sliding around on the slippery leather seat resulting in you expending large amounts of energy manically hanging on the steering wheel rather than being able to put in smooth movements and measured corrections...
In retrospect, you mentioned karting experience so you'll know what I'm prattling on about....
Obviously ignore the above if you're a right fat b
d that's solidly wedged in once someone closes the door for you Just my two penneth..
Chilli
Thanks for the info/pic on the sump...I'll have to drop it when I get a chance. Probably in the Spring.
How long before you'll be wanting a 500, Mike?
I'm in two minds about this track day malarkey...would be quite interesting to give mine some beans without worrying about the speedo going into silly territory...
How long before you'll be wanting a 500, Mike?
I'm in two minds about this track day malarkey...would be quite interesting to give mine some beans without worrying about the speedo going into silly territory...
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