Breakdown

[macdeb]

Why would you need to help compression? With minimal compression an engine will fire. Sounds like an ignition problem.
PS; After you sort this, drop the oil and replace as filling cylinders and sump with un-burnt fuel is not a good idea..

[Chimp871]

Shavings solved. When I switched dizzy caps I changed HT leads before clipping to distributor.

Turns out there's a locating lug on the cap so before although clipped down it was off axis.

I'm off to South Africa for a couple of weeks so will then take a look when i get back.

[Penelope Stopit]

Chimp871 said:

Shavings solved. When I switched dizzy caps I changed HT leads before clipping to distributor.

Turns out there's a locating lug on the cap so before although clipped down it was off axis.

I'm off to South Africa for a couple of weeks so will then take a look when i get back.

Very good, part of the mystery is solved. Did you try starting it after fitting the cap correctly?

[Chimp871]

No. Out of time. But plugs cleaned and ready to spark test.

I assume the dizzy cap contacts must be setup for the offset the contact lug gives. So if you mount it 180 degrees out (which is whar I did) it wouldn't work?

[N7GTX]

Chimp871 said:

No. Out of time. But plugs cleaned and ready to spark test.

I assume the dizzy cap contacts must be setup for the offset the contact lug gives. So if you mount it 180 degrees out (which is whar I did) it wouldn't work?

Correct

[Penelope Stopit]

Chimp871 said:

No. Out of time. But plugs cleaned and ready to spark test.

I assume the dizzy cap contacts must be setup for the offset the contact lug gives. So if you mount it 180 degrees out (which is whar I did) it wouldn't work?

Yes you're right.
There is a good chance the cap is now scrap as it could have been cracked by the rotor arm hitting the lobes, you will struggle to see hairline cracks, the lobes won't be very good after the catching

[SILICONEKID 345HP 12.03]

Are the leads crossed ?

[Chimp871]

I don't believe so as I'm using the bible config.

When I get round to starting if it doesn't work then I'll go through tdc check. But I'm not thinking that route.

[Chimp871]

update after a couple of weeks away. Still not running

Put back old coil pack, amp module & magnacor leads, cleaned plugs, dizzy cap and rotor arm are from used pile (all working before switching) and installed cap the RIGHT way this time. Cleaned earth points on amp module clamp.

Checked for spark on each HT lead separately and I have to say they all look weak to my eye, orange in colour.

Checked fuel pressure at rail and it's 35-40 psi after priming.

Oil pressure starts on turnover is 20-30 psi which I know is lower than normal, but gauge may not 100% accurate.

On turnover with fully charged battery it turns fast enough, tries to catch but sounds farty like the video I posted before.

options (in order):
charge spare battery in garage and put 2 battery's to help cranking
Check spark plug gap/change plugs to old ones
Check compression ratio
add oil to cylinder to help seal to create compression (doesn't fuel do this to?0
Worst case: bad ecu or throw in towel and send to garage. <<< I don't want to do this, it's not why I bought the car....

Any other areas to check?

[N7GTX]

Remove all the plugs and see if they are soaking wet which they should be straight after cranking. If they are then fit your old spare set. If they are not wet then there is another problem.
Ensure the battery is charged, foot to the floor on the accelerator pedal and try again.
You have a spark at the plugs, if they are wet then the injectors are opening so if there is another fault I would give the car a tow to try starting. This will overcome any bore wash caused by the excess petrol in the bores from your attempts to start it and even with lower compression, the much faster turning of the engine should help it to start.
Adding oil will raise the compression but you then run the risk of causing oil fouling of the plugs so if you do go down this route just 2 drops will be more than enough.
Petrol does NOT increase compression - it does the opposite by washing the oil from the piston sides and the rings.

[QBee]

Would it help if i posted (or dropped in) my coil and ignition amp that ran my car perfectly until I went Emerald 12 months ago? If you have wet plugs, I still suspect the pre-distributor part the ignition system.

I think I came by a couple of years ago with plug extenders? The post will be the quickest and cheapest way of getting those parts to you, but I am coming down to Cwmbran next Sunday. I can also bring jump leads and a booster pack if you suspect the battery. And my battery charger/conditioner. And all my other ignition spares.

[Loubaruch]

Have you bypassed the immobiliser?

If the immobiliser contacts are bad then you may still measure 12v at the coil but high resistance immobiliser contacts could limit the current required by the coil and would produce a weak spark ( if it is actually weak). Just a thought!

[Chimp871]

I can bypass the immobiliser as I've done the mod. I'm about to turnover, check plugs, add a few drops of oil and then get a tow down the drive.

I'll do one way with immobiliser as is and the other bypassed, but in theory I shouldn't get a spark if the immobiliser isn't working? It's either on or off

[Penelope Stopit]

There should be a blue spark when checking for it at the king lead
You mention that there is a week orange spark at the plug leads, if you have a blue spark from the king lead you should have a blue spark at the plug leads
if you have a weak orange spark at the king lead you will need to get that to spark blue before checking the spark at the plug leads
A weak orange spark at the king lead could be caused by low voltage to the coil or/and amplifier

Don't assume that the immobiliser is ok because it is either on or off, there could be a volt drop through the immobiliser unless you have bypassed the ignition immobilisation if that circuit exists on your car

[Hedgehopper]

I' m sure you must have checked that the leads are in the correct order several times but is no.1 lead on the distributor cap the one the rotor arm points to when no.1 piston is approaching TDC on the compression stroke?

Sounds obvious but very easy to have the leads in the correct order but starting from the wrong cap contact.

[Chimp871]

QBee said:

Would it help if i posted (or dropped in) my coil and ignition amp that ran my car perfectly until I went Emerald 12 months ago? If you have wet plugs, I still suspect the pre-distributor part the ignition system.

I think I came by a couple of years ago with plug extenders? The post will be the quickest and cheapest way of getting those parts to you, but I am coming down to Cwmbran next Sunday. I can also bring jump leads and a booster pack if you suspect the battery. And my battery charger/conditioner. And all my other ignition spares.

yes I was the plug extender man near Hereford...

Thanks for the offer, but I can't believe 2 coil packs and 2 amp modules are fried. The new ones are <12 months.

[Chimp871]

so low battery stops play..... now charging.....

I've taken the plugs out and they were wet and smelt of fuel.

I've cleaned up and put back in my old BP7ES plugs, put a drop of oil in the cylinder.

Will try again in the morning and will try with immobiliser as it is and with mod (that I did earlier in this saga but is back in OE position), Will also get a tow from my wife's car.

It's my daily driver at the moment but I'm mainly up and down Brum airport at the moment so it's not killing me now having it running but the cerb is also out of action too with a failed saxo PS pump.

[Chimp871]

Hedgehopper said:

I' m sure you must have checked that the leads are in the correct order several times but is no.1 lead on the distributor cap the one the rotor arm points to when no.1 piston is approaching TDC on the compression stroke?

Sounds obvious but very easy to have the leads in the correct order but starting from the wrong cap contact.

out of interest is it possible for the rotor position to be off from the firing order? new one to me

but you got me thinking that maybe the reluctor in the dizzy may be a possible cause, if its rusty wouldn't it help provide a weak spark ? easy one to check tomorrow.

red circles below from an earlier picture

Edited by Chimp871 on Sunday 28th January 20:58

[gamefreaks]

I haven’t seen any mention of the fuel pump/Ecu relays in the footwell yet.


I had these symptoms last summer. Changing the two brown relays attached to the loom in the footwell fixed it.

[ianwayne]

Using the schrader valve, the OP said he has 35 psi of fuel pressure. It should start with that even if the relays mentioned drop out momentarily.