Gaz Nickel Adjustment - settings suggestions
Discussion
Then def go Billies , for outright reliability and comfort , generally always a trade off for Go-Faster stuff either comfort or maintenance, although I have had no issues with Gaz Mono's as they suite my purpose but obviously hard focused 
for fit and forget see above ^
for fit and forget see above ^ Edited by Sardonicus on Thursday 8th November 09:53
The issue I've always found with the gaz twin tubes is the relatively low levels of rebound compared to compression, and of that it's more the high speed compression rather than low speed .. so you adjust for a nice comfort level as you hit a bump, but you find the rebound too low to control the spring so it's all a bit floaty .. so you dial in more stiffness (less bleed through the adjuster) and you get rid of the floaty feel, but you find that the high speed compression is now too severe and ride quality has suffered. You sometimes can't get that happy medium.
As I've said before, one way to get a damper that's poor in high speed compression to behave with more apparent suppleness is to slow the piston rod by fitting f-off big bushings .. it's not for no reason that TVR/Bilstein felt the need to move from a small bush to a big bush - it significantly improves comfort for little penalty in control to the road user. Track users may prefer something a bit more immediate in response hence rose joints .. but for road use if your damper can't deliver the comfort you require, fit big bushes.
I've had a few top eyes machined up over the years for people on rose jointed dampers (of all makes, even the established big names in the industry) to take a big bush and deliver some comfort back.
Mind you, you've only got to hop over to the mx5 forums to realise bilstein don't always get it right.
As I've said before, one way to get a damper that's poor in high speed compression to behave with more apparent suppleness is to slow the piston rod by fitting f-off big bushings .. it's not for no reason that TVR/Bilstein felt the need to move from a small bush to a big bush - it significantly improves comfort for little penalty in control to the road user. Track users may prefer something a bit more immediate in response hence rose joints .. but for road use if your damper can't deliver the comfort you require, fit big bushes.
I've had a few top eyes machined up over the years for people on rose jointed dampers (of all makes, even the established big names in the industry) to take a big bush and deliver some comfort back.
Mind you, you've only got to hop over to the mx5 forums to realise bilstein don't always get it right.
Well I had another look at the car today, didn’t get far as I’d like but having wind down the troublesome side it kept going and going round.
So looks like the adjuster isn’t actually working properly which would explain a lot. So hopefully I can get that fixed for free and I think I will still move over to the billies anyway
So looks like the adjuster isn’t actually working properly which would explain a lot. So hopefully I can get that fixed for free and I think I will still move over to the billies anyway
I had a set of Gaz Nickels fitted for both road and track a while back, when my original factory Bilsteins were shot, and found them fine. I then moved to GGPs, which I found to be similar, and after changing to Racing Reds (bought cheaply off a sprinting enthusiast who changed to Nitrons) I am even happier.
Tried various springs - the Gaz dampers always seemed to need heavier springs than the Racing Reds, I ended up with 500 lb springs on the front and 450 on the rear with the Gazs. I am now on around 375 lb springs with the RRs. Trouble was if I forgot to change the settings before leaving a track day when I was on the Gaz products, I shook my teeth out on the way home.
The adjusters on the Gaz shocks seemed to go from soggy soft to rock hard in about 4 clicks. I agree with Phazed, on Gaz dampers I always needed the rears much softer than the fronts, or it hopped on tight corners on track, but the softer rear settings compromised other aspects of the handling, especially stability under hard braking. Now I am on Racing Reds, (which I believe were made by Nitron) the adjustment is far more progressive and I actually have it about the same front and rear. The rear end hopping has gone, it handles well on track and it actually feels fine on country roads with the adjusters left on the track (hard) settings. Yes, you know it is a tad stiff, especially when your passenger mutters on a long journey, but it isn't stupidly so.
I am guessing that you get what you pay for in terms of damping quality, which is why racers spend thousands on their dampers, but you also should suit the dampers you choose to the use you expect to make of the car. We may be tempted to think of Bilsteins as basic, factory-fitted dampers, but TVR chose them wisely and they are fitted to many top sports car marques.
As Chimpongas and Sardonicu both say, if you are basically only using the car on the road, the new spec Bilsteins are well liked and would seem to be a good choice in the correct spec. If you are going to spend your spare cash on a fair few track days a year, then getting the best adjustable dampers you can afford, with suitable springs, seems to be the way forward. I know people rave about Nitrons on here (and then only do 1000 miles a year on smooth roads), but I have heard good things about Gaz Monos from people who know about these things, and they are only a couple of hundred quid more than Gaz Gold pros or Nickels and a far more responsive damper, especially on rebound.
Good luck solving your issues and getting the car back to being the car you want to drive. Yes, you have an adjuster issue, but if you still cannot get the car to feel right after that is fixed, it may well be worth having the alignment checked again, and the camber perhaps increased slightly by someone who knows the cars. I think I noticed you are in the south east, so if you are anywhere near Mat Smith Sportcars in West Norfolk (30 miles north of Cambridge), Mat (one "t", milk no sugar) is very good at making his Hunter machine produce the car you want and, being a Chimaera racer himself as well, he understands the effect of the various adjustments and can set the car up how you want it.
Tried various springs - the Gaz dampers always seemed to need heavier springs than the Racing Reds, I ended up with 500 lb springs on the front and 450 on the rear with the Gazs. I am now on around 375 lb springs with the RRs. Trouble was if I forgot to change the settings before leaving a track day when I was on the Gaz products, I shook my teeth out on the way home.
The adjusters on the Gaz shocks seemed to go from soggy soft to rock hard in about 4 clicks. I agree with Phazed, on Gaz dampers I always needed the rears much softer than the fronts, or it hopped on tight corners on track, but the softer rear settings compromised other aspects of the handling, especially stability under hard braking. Now I am on Racing Reds, (which I believe were made by Nitron) the adjustment is far more progressive and I actually have it about the same front and rear. The rear end hopping has gone, it handles well on track and it actually feels fine on country roads with the adjusters left on the track (hard) settings. Yes, you know it is a tad stiff, especially when your passenger mutters on a long journey, but it isn't stupidly so.
I am guessing that you get what you pay for in terms of damping quality, which is why racers spend thousands on their dampers, but you also should suit the dampers you choose to the use you expect to make of the car. We may be tempted to think of Bilsteins as basic, factory-fitted dampers, but TVR chose them wisely and they are fitted to many top sports car marques.
As Chimpongas and Sardonicu both say, if you are basically only using the car on the road, the new spec Bilsteins are well liked and would seem to be a good choice in the correct spec. If you are going to spend your spare cash on a fair few track days a year, then getting the best adjustable dampers you can afford, with suitable springs, seems to be the way forward. I know people rave about Nitrons on here (and then only do 1000 miles a year on smooth roads), but I have heard good things about Gaz Monos from people who know about these things, and they are only a couple of hundred quid more than Gaz Gold pros or Nickels and a far more responsive damper, especially on rebound.
Good luck solving your issues and getting the car back to being the car you want to drive. Yes, you have an adjuster issue, but if you still cannot get the car to feel right after that is fixed, it may well be worth having the alignment checked again, and the camber perhaps increased slightly by someone who knows the cars. I think I noticed you are in the south east, so if you are anywhere near Mat Smith Sportcars in West Norfolk (30 miles north of Cambridge), Mat (one "t", milk no sugar) is very good at making his Hunter machine produce the car you want and, being a Chimaera racer himself as well, he understands the effect of the various adjustments and can set the car up how you want it.
Edited by QBee on Saturday 10th November 05:08
If your a seriously fast track day user then adjustables are probably your best bet although you’ll need seriously harder springs to make a true track car which will be impossible to drive on bumpy roads. Something in the region of 600/450 springs or it’s still a compromise.
If you are doing a couple of trackdays a year just to be able to let the car have its head and not bothered about absolute cornering performance then get some Billies on.
The problems occur when these cheaper after market shocks get hot and damping falls away.
It sounds like your more interested in road performsnce which must include a decent level of ride.
Two things I’ve done which made a big difference to this road performance was move away from adjustable as I too could never find a happy medium on our ever changing roads
In my case I git a set of very old Koni shocks as fitted to a 90’s Griff just as an interim measure and found myself liking them very much, these shocks are both old and the springs slightly tired but the area that used to annoy me on so called sports shocks was going over abrupt bumps of which the car felt like a go cart and totally unable to deal with these shock through the chassis, the old Koni delt with these bumps much better and I was over the moon.
Secondly and in my quest to make the car more civilised I then replaced the tyres for Rainsport 3 which I know is not easy on standard size wheels but for me on larger wheels 17’s all round this was the final part of the puzzle that in conjunction with the old Koni shocks has given me the road holding and comfort I was looking for.
No more shocks through the chassis and shaking steering wheel when hitting say man hole covers or anything that is an abrupt change of road surface.
After spending upwards of £1500 on more than one new set of adjustables these old shocks made me realise what a fool i’d been as they out performed both GGP and Protech.
If I knew then what I know now I’d have got Ben Lang’s Billies as they are the only shocks that seem to have been tested properly on these cars rather than guess work.
It’s important to remember the tyres constitute the first part of the suspension system and have a big effect on the small sharpe shocks that often springs and dampers can’t really handle of which for me the Rainsport has addressed this issue nicely.
Rose joints to my way of thinking are not to be recommended on a road car unless it never gets wet!
They offer no damping effect from the type of shocks the average road will inflict so your already starting from a poor position if road comfort is your main goal.
That and I believe the damping on something like Bilsteins will be more sophisticated than a cheap aftermarket shock made in a small unit somewhere.
If my old Koni which are old and surely a bit softer than when new handles both short sharpe shocks and cornering forces better ( as a road car) than any of these cheaper adjustables then there’s something not quite right!
Sounds to me like you’d be better off getting your shocks checked again then selling them on as may people want the adjustability for serious trackday abuse, this should offset the cost of Lang’s Billies which with said big top bush etc etc are likely to be a fit and forget option let alone return the car to some sense of both comfort and consistency.
If you are doing a couple of trackdays a year just to be able to let the car have its head and not bothered about absolute cornering performance then get some Billies on.
The problems occur when these cheaper after market shocks get hot and damping falls away.
It sounds like your more interested in road performsnce which must include a decent level of ride.
Two things I’ve done which made a big difference to this road performance was move away from adjustable as I too could never find a happy medium on our ever changing roads
In my case I git a set of very old Koni shocks as fitted to a 90’s Griff just as an interim measure and found myself liking them very much, these shocks are both old and the springs slightly tired but the area that used to annoy me on so called sports shocks was going over abrupt bumps of which the car felt like a go cart and totally unable to deal with these shock through the chassis, the old Koni delt with these bumps much better and I was over the moon.
Secondly and in my quest to make the car more civilised I then replaced the tyres for Rainsport 3 which I know is not easy on standard size wheels but for me on larger wheels 17’s all round this was the final part of the puzzle that in conjunction with the old Koni shocks has given me the road holding and comfort I was looking for.
No more shocks through the chassis and shaking steering wheel when hitting say man hole covers or anything that is an abrupt change of road surface.
After spending upwards of £1500 on more than one new set of adjustables these old shocks made me realise what a fool i’d been as they out performed both GGP and Protech.
If I knew then what I know now I’d have got Ben Lang’s Billies as they are the only shocks that seem to have been tested properly on these cars rather than guess work.
It’s important to remember the tyres constitute the first part of the suspension system and have a big effect on the small sharpe shocks that often springs and dampers can’t really handle of which for me the Rainsport has addressed this issue nicely.
Rose joints to my way of thinking are not to be recommended on a road car unless it never gets wet!
They offer no damping effect from the type of shocks the average road will inflict so your already starting from a poor position if road comfort is your main goal.
That and I believe the damping on something like Bilsteins will be more sophisticated than a cheap aftermarket shock made in a small unit somewhere.
If my old Koni which are old and surely a bit softer than when new handles both short sharpe shocks and cornering forces better ( as a road car) than any of these cheaper adjustables then there’s something not quite right!
Sounds to me like you’d be better off getting your shocks checked again then selling them on as may people want the adjustability for serious trackday abuse, this should offset the cost of Lang’s Billies which with said big top bush etc etc are likely to be a fit and forget option let alone return the car to some sense of both comfort and consistency.
Good post Classic Chim in all aspects, but the part about tyre choice is very well made. I have Uniroyal Rainsport 3s on my Saab, and the slightly more pliable tyre walls give really lovely handling on all road surfaces. Yes, its a heavier car, and only 260 bhp when seriously provoked, but it's still important to have a safe ride and a car under you that handles like you expect it to.
The other advantage of Rainsport 3s is as the name implies - they are brilliant in the wet. Your car doesn't turn into a bar of soap as soon as the weather turns, but instead sticks to the road like a car should.
The other advantage of Rainsport 3s is as the name implies - they are brilliant in the wet. Your car doesn't turn into a bar of soap as soon as the weather turns, but instead sticks to the road like a car should.
Classic Chim said:
Thankyou kindly sir.
The tyres make a bigger difference than any shock absorber Imho
thanks guys, there is certainly some consistency in the responses here. I think there is no other choice apart from to upgrade to Ben's shocks once my adjuster has been fixed. I already have Rainsports and they are very good, so no issues there. The tyres make a bigger difference than any shock absorber Imho
Once this is done I will only have another 7 things to fix, slowly getting there!
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff