Survey of ownership cost v buying a sorted example .

Survey of ownership cost v buying a sorted example .

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Classic Chim

Original Poster:

8,737 posts

87 months

Thursday 7th February
quotequote all
TVR by their very nature are all unique with bespoke colours and differences based on buyers original spec.
Tvr appear to be one of those few cars we like to claim and make our own, not so much changing anything in particular but repairing and making good the job TVR and former owners left us with.

Even doing work at home and saving on labour costs who dares count up the cost of making a Tvr faster better and altogether a more reliable car when getting all the major recognised mods for both power handling and reliability installed.
You can include tuning and any mods that have been added, chassis repairs etc etc.
The question I’m trying to answer is
Can you turn a standard car into a great car for less than just buying a really good car that’s had an owner do just that.

I often hear people mention TVR are expensive cars to buy but are they really,, if you want to keep or own a top line Tvr someone somewhere has been very busy and spent money along the way to maintain its presence.
Re sale prices never really reflect the cost of creating the brilliance top line cars exhibit so maybe when someone says they are expensive to buy i’d say yes the cheap ones are. smile most high end cars couldn’t be re created from a poor car without serious wedge spending so the better cars ( incl mods) ?!! are actually better value for money by many £1000’s in some cases.

As a Tvr owner should we all be advising buy the best you can and if that means waiting until you have saved another 2/4 k or whatever that’s still the best way to buy to get the most for your money.
Saving 2 k on purchase might cost 8k to rectify.

I’ll start
£10,000 car purchase 2011
£25,000 Engine,road train,engine management,clutch,Dif, full respray, new windscreen and hood, dash and tonnes more.
Everything else I saved on and did myself biglaugh

Only saying it like it is. yikes

But then I’ve also driven it for those years a lot 40,000 miles and had huge fun out of it so the pleasure must be worth 10k of that easy biggrin man math had to come into it somewhere.

So that’s an idea of what it costs from a main dealer to do such works that comes with warrantees and type approval or it was in my case.

Chassis work is stil to be fully costed but nothing major. Couple of K at the worst.

What’s my car worth,, 17/22K depending on who’s selling it and if it’s warranted.

Has anyone noticed the price difference yet.

Threads like this should encourage people to buy the better cars....... or by a wreck cos you enjoy it as a hobby and couldn’t care less what it costs thumbup

ETA
Pictures are welcome on this thread to show both what can be done and what it leads to. Hp numbers are welcomed for a start biggrin

My little effort.
















Edited by Classic Chim on Thursday 7th February 22:22


Edited by Classic Chim on Thursday 7th February 22:24

Penelope Stopit

3,761 posts

47 months

Thursday 7th February
quotequote all
That's nice
You have a great hobby, look how much a premiere league game ticket costs and then add booze and travel expenses x 38 games this season, that's got to be approx 5000 to 6000 pounds and nothing to show for it

Classic Chim

Original Poster:

8,737 posts

87 months

Thursday 7th February
quotequote all
Penelope Stopit said:
That's nice
You have a great hobby, look how much a premiere league game ticket costs and then add booze and travel expenses x 38 games this season, that's got to be approx 5000 to 6000 pounds and nothing to show for it
Thanks, although that’s not why I posted the thread smile .
It’s simply to look at the costs involved one way or another
I’m quite proud of spending so much hehe it’s a different world right now so not so much modding going on unless you live in Yorkshire biggrin Joke amongst friends.
We all know the answers but seeing it in black and white might bring home what so many of us enthusiasts do spend to keep these cars upto spec and something I hope the original builders and Tvr men who worked at the factory etc would approve of. Development of the bread is sort of in the blood of many owners and fans alike.

I know proper accounting isn’t the name of the game in this age but putting up what it’s cost to get the car your liking might be very relevant to someone thinking of buying or indeed selling sometime in the future wink

motul1974

517 posts

77 months

Thursday 7th February
quotequote all
Oups....this is a mistake! eek

'99 450 cost 12 500

Approximately 16-17k spent

Full chassis rebuild Inc new out riggers.
V8d 450 rebuild and gas flow
GEMS
Clive Ford bits
Usual brakes, clutch, hoses, bushes etc
Tuscon Bilsteins
Interior stuff Inc new osysseys
Tyres
Mk3 lights

Still not fully back together, but I think I'm on the money.....maybe....hopefully!

No idea what it'll be worth!

AND......Could do with a new windscreen to add to it all. smile

KevtheRev

55 posts

15 months

Thursday 7th February
quotequote all
I bought a Griff 12 months ago, high mileage at >100k, good chassis, great full repaint and full retrim.
I can do mechanicals but don't have the facilities or skills for body & trim.
I hadn't planned it this way when I bought it but is ideal for me. Expensive stuff I can't do is already done and the mechanicals I can do, although well maintained are ideal for me to carry out a rolling refresh. So I've started from the rear and working forward.
When I was looking for a Griff, I was reliably advised a car with one major fault is preferable to lots of minor faults.






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Belle427

3,446 posts

171 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
KevtheRev said:
I bought a Griff 12 months ago, high mileage at >100k, good chassis, great full repaint and full retrim.
I can do mechanicals but don't have the facilities or skills for body & trim.
I hadn't planned it this way when I bought it but is ideal for me. Expensive stuff I can't do is already done and the mechanicals I can do, although well maintained are ideal for me to carry out a rolling refresh. So I've started from the rear and working forward.
When I was looking for a Griff, I was reliably advised a car with one major fault is preferable to lots of minor faults.



Stunning colour that.

QBee

16,300 posts

82 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
I just daren't post.....

Edited by QBee on Friday 8th February 08:16

phazed

17,220 posts

142 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
QBee said:
I just daren't post.....

Edited by QBee on Friday 8th February 08:16
Am thinking about it, got a quite day biggrin

Englishman

1,808 posts

148 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
QBee said:
I just daren't post.....

Edited by QBee on Friday 8th February 08:16
Likewise. I didn't bother in the past, but over the last 10 years I have kept a record of my expenditure on TVR's and adding it all up is scary!

glow worm

4,232 posts

165 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
For the first 5 years after purchasing my Tuscan Convertible new...I kept the BLOG on here up to date.. When I hit the top ten list for running costs , I stopped . Then I got a 4.5 SS / new ECU upgrade and Nitrons and a few other items … Good job I don't intend selling the car because I would never get anywhere near my money back , fortunately I spent the money for my own satisfaction. smile
Similar story for my Chim but not quite as extreme.

phazed

17,220 posts

142 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
If we are coming out..............Just copied and pasted so not quite as sad as you think.

Some of the upgrades carried across from my old 4.6 as I put that back to standard when I sold it.

Also includes a new block as the old one developed a crack behind the liner and the resulting water ingress, the whole radiators worth went through the engine at a track day and I reckon that is what prematurely wore the bores.
Crankshaft also replaced when it snapped while cruising at 60 miles an hour! As to why that happened, no one will ever know but the new crankshaft which was balanced by John Eales brother has made the engine smoother than before so I am guessing the original crankshaft wasn't balanced that well.
Car running beautifully and doesn't use a drop of oil.

Engine.
5.5 RV8 built by yours truly.
Top hated large journal block.
Cross bolted,
Special stroker crank,
Cat forged steel H beam rods,
ARP head bolts,
Forged Diamond pistons,
Total Seal gapless rings,
H404 camshaft plus hydraulic lifters,
Yella Terra roller rockers,
JE billet outrigger posts,
ACT Triple plenum and 45mm trumpet base,
Plenum inlet opened out to 95mm,
100mm induction hose,
100mm KN Hiflow filter,
Stage 4 ported big valve heads,
10.5 :1 Comp,
Ported and polished inlet manifold,
30lb Accell Injectors,
JE alternator bracket,
P38 coil pack,
twin flame traps and catch tank fitted,
Magnacor 8mm leads,
McLeod 10.5" twin plate clutch (rated to 800 horses),
Forged lightweight alloy flywheel,

Other stuff.
Aaron alloy radiator,
ACT full set black silicon hoses,
34 row oil cooler with therostatic sandwich plate take off,
ACT S/S complete decatted big bore exhaust manifolds and pipe work,
New Emerald ECU fitted and mapped by Joolz plus new engine harness,
Wideband gauge,
SPA dual digital oil temp and pressure gauge,
Gaz Mono Dampers with Eibach 450/400 Springs,
5 stud conversion,
RL7 wheels, 17" all round with R1Rs for road,
Black RL7 wheels 17" & 18" with R888s for track,
Braided brake hoses,
Tuscan big brake conversion with DS2500 pads,
Thicker 25mm & 22mm ARBs fitted,
Ford Focus RS rear rose joint drop links,
Leven front drop links,
Superflex Polyurethane bushes all round,
TR Lane roll bar,
Converted to electric/hydraulic PS pump,
Converted to Subaru PS rack,
Series 2 Elise seats superbly upholstered in matching leather by Zigga,
4 point harness fitted to drivers seat,
Additional vents cut to front valance,
Carbon fibre front splitter,
QD bonnet hinges,
Additional servo and electric vacuum pump fitted to assist HD clutch,
Additional sound and heat insulation fitted, t
Tubular front wishbones fitted to front,
New outriggers fitted in-house,
New diff fitted & Polybushed ,
Gearbox completely overhauled with 5th gear mod.

Bought for £11,000 with 31k on the clock.
Spent about £10k, (car came with a lot of goodies but in a very sad state)

If I had not started with a car that had money spent on it, you could easily add another £15k on top and that's doing the work myself.

https://youtu.be/v4aahE3UvsQ

[img]








ChimpOnGas

8,416 posts

117 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
Excellent post Peter bow

With so much experience improving your Chimaera you are now in a unique position to share what worked well and what didn't.

With this in mind perhaps you can share with everyone your top 10 modifications?

Here's mine:

1. My LPG conversion, drives better on LPG than a stock Chimaera drives on petrol, and at just £0.11p a mile switching to gas simply means I can enjoy my TVR more, this makes my LPG conversion the best improvement I've made to the car by a country mile, and it's the only modification that's actually paid for itself!

2, My custom TTV Racing 18lbs lightweight Chro-mo steel flywheel, a full 10lbs lighter than the 28lb Rover SD1 millstone TVR fitted, and there are no downsides to it in the lightweight Chimaera either... combined with my V8D Stealth cam the flywheel just gives a far more freely revving V8 which is a wonderful pleasure improving thing

3. My custom built Mk4 Tuscan S spec Bilsteins from Ben Lang, fantastic on road handling and body composure with truly excellent ride quality

4. My BMW E38 Brembo four piston and 324mm big disc conversion, powerful yet controllable braking which with the Mk4 Bilsteins and Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres makes the car light years faster than when it left Bristol Avenue in 1996

5. My S10 Tail housing mod (TVR remote linkage delete) and Core Shifter quick shift kit ect ect ect, a collection of parts that give a lovely direct, precise, and mechanical shift feel which truly enhances driving pleasure

6. My AP five litre Chim/Griff spec clutch, finally I get a quality engineered nicely weighted progressive feeling clutch, the release bearing carrier was also clearanced by Mat Smith on his advice when he fitted this excellent AP clutch, I'm convinced this greatly helped the clutch feel and modulation too

7. My leather Recaro seats from a Jaguar XJS, super comfy, sits you higher up for a better more commanding (safer) view of the road, way more supportive when cornering briskly these seats are a set of mid 1990's period correct looking full leather Recaros at a very reasonable price, they do take some fitting though as clearances are literally zero!

8. My folding Surrey top, so much more convenient to fit and stow than the hard panel, it's compact size and ease of use means I haven't used the original hard panel since buying the Surrey top

9. MK3 faired headlights using the new generation of LED H4s with the addition of PIAA LP270 driving lights, gives modern car levels of light to finally make rapid night driving in a Chimaera safe, well as safe as it can be in a TVR

10. One spring removed from the throttle linkage, a simple free mod that makes a big improvement to the feel of the standard Range Rover off road friendly overly heavy for a sports car throttle action

Overall the car is not only hugely improved over when I bought in ten years ago, it is also faster, nicer to drive, safer, better handling, better braked and massively more economical to fuel than when it was sold brand new some 23 years ago!

A well maintained but bone stock TVR Chimaera was already a wonderful improved classic British sports car for the 90's classic car buyer who didn't want to suffer the many challenging compromises that come with buying and trying to regularly use an E-Type or a Healey 3000 ect on modern roads. What I've tried to do is take this already excellent platform and improve it still further so the car remains very much an exciting analogue driving experience but further enhanced for today's world.

I've shied away from the big horsepower goals remaining happy to develop my still light 1100kg Chimaera to 250hp & 263 Ft/lbs of torque, what I've tried to do is merely knock a few more edges of a slightly rough diamond while ensuring it's TVR heart and unique charisma remain firmly intact. I like to think of my TVR Chimaera is my very own Eagle E-Type that over the last 10 years has cost me less that £20k to buy, improve and run.

And that's quite some saving over an Eagle I can tell you wink, a TVR Chimaera is quite simply, by far, the most underrated and undervalued classic British sports car ever!

markcoopers

280 posts

131 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
I am not sure my expenditure matches many others here, but i would say i am in £25k having purchased the car for £20k and added Emmerald, wheels/tyres and a host of "accessories". That by no means matches the money invested my car by the previous recent owner, highlights of which are: Rebuilt engine with new valve train, cam and head work, outriggers and chassis, new suspension and brake systems, some paint work and a new carpet set/refreshed full leather.

What i would say from experience of purchasing many used performance cars is always go for the one that has all the money spent on it already, it is always cheaper than purchasing it yourself, you will almost always want the bits anyways, and removing and selling is always a cash generating process.

That said one of the beauties of these era TVR's and some other British sports car makers is that they meat the demands of both those that want to DIY and those that want a performance bargain but no hassle.......their really is a car for everyone.

Classic Chim

Original Poster:

8,737 posts

87 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
QBee said:
I just daren't post.....

Edited by QBee on Friday 8th February 08:16
biglaugh

Luckily I’ve added it up for you and it’s well over,,,,,,, biggrin

Onlt 8-10 years ago it seemed every other owner was doing something major to the cars every few months, probably still are but not bothering to share it on this platform maybe!

It’s just hard to see how us average Joe’s can get a Tvr and have a top line car with the power/reliability to match the factory numbers without having to spend about 20k one way or another.
Others no doubt can do it for far less but they probably have very good electro/mechanical skills to start with.

I can also confirm as others will, the changes made and or just stuff replaced for new and re freshing the car do really add up and gives it as new kind of feel.
My car was very low mileage when I got it, it was a great car to drive then, it’s an even better car to drive 10 years later. The money I spent gave me the results I roughly hoped for so these things do work and improve the vehicle. There are a few pretty simple areas that can be improved on the Chim/Griff not least the brakes, with various well known ways to go about this on the front brakes it’s an easy upgrade that for me gives supercar type feel and a huge confidence booster in the cars braking capability which is actually very good with good brakes and tyres to start with.

Then there’s the steering , I replaced both knuckle joints and lovely light steering resumed so not everything is about big upgrades and expensive mods.






fieryfred

47 posts

19 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
No matter what old car you buy it will always require maintenance.
Buy the best one you can with money spent on servicing.
Its no cheaper keeping an MGB, Healey or E type etc on the road.
My car had 50K miles with out riggers replaced & racing red dampers & was 4K cheaper than a 16K miles car that needed the out riggers replacing.
So a new radiator, new hood, new dampers, induction kit plus service items & now a blown manifold gasket & head off to remove just one bolt plus i may as well get new manifolds & do the chassis rails while the manifolds are out & where do you stop.
Its an age thing.
So the 4K saved has been spent & it could have been spent on either car.

I know from my motorbikes you can never recover your labour costs & its cheaper to buy a restored item than start with a pile of rotten bits.

Now the plus points.
The car is good to drive, parts & support are plenty full & anything to do has already been done before by someone on this web site.
It cost a lot i know but not as much as other cars. TVRs are cheap maybe too cheap to buy & i wont say what my mates Porsche has cost or how much a V8 Morgan costs.
Smile all that work keeps the car rolling for another 20 years.


2 sMoKiN bArReLs

21,637 posts

173 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
10 TVRS + 350,000 miles over 24 years. Never done a thing. (OK, checked oil, kicked tyres & changed a relay)

ChimpOnGas

8,416 posts

117 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
The way I see it there are many more expensive hobbies than running a TVR yes

  • Bought mine 10 years ago for £8k
  • Spent roughly £12k on maintaining and improving it over the 10 years
  • Total outlay £20k
  • Equity now remaining in the car £14k plus
  • Total cost over 10 years less equity £6k
  • Annual cost of ownership £600
  • Additional costs (annual Tax, Insurance & Fuel) £1,000
  • Total annual cost of TVR hobby (following return of equity) £1,600
  • That's just £30 a week, or cheaper than three packets of cigarettes at today's insane tobacco prices smokin
I gave up smoking a packet a day when I bought my Chimaera, so at the same time as I did something to improve my health I also used the money saved on fags to buy and run a TVR...... so I feel qualified to say:

"There are definitely more expensive, pointless, and considerably more risky hobbies than running a TVR" wink

TV8

2,638 posts

113 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
We don't discuss money spent on cars in our house. Mrs B and I have this understanding that everything costs £40 and leave it at that, which is just as well!

When I first bought an old car, a wise person told me if you can't afford one of the good ones, you definitely can't afford a bad one!

ChimpOnGas

8,416 posts

117 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
TV8 said:
When I first bought an old car, a wise person told me if you can't afford one of the good ones, you definitely can't afford a bad one!
Brilliant bow

Dave85chim

114 posts

24 months

Saturday 9th February
quotequote all
I think I’m in touble - inpaid £1,600!