Mod-Wise dual fan cooling
Discussion
quote:
quote:
Joolz, i use crystal filled temperature stips (from Think Automotive 020 8568 1172)about £1 each, they only measure once, but i assume give a accurate reading.?
The infra red thing is a lot more fun. Point it at clouds and it will tell you how high they are because it will read their temp and that is proportional to their altitude. You can also use it to measure when meat is cooked on a barby, measure exhaust manifold temps to make sure that all cylinders are running correctly and best of all pretend it is a mobile speed gun and scare the idiots that speed through my village.
About £70 from Burton Power.
Steve,
How would you use one of these to check the temp? Which bit of the engine would you point it at? I gadget freak relative may have one that I could borrow and I'd like to check if my gauge is accurate or not.
thanks
quote:
Your turn, Pete
I'm not sure how to respond to this without simply repeating myself, and I suspect this is descending into a boring "oh yes it is", "oh no it isn't" sort of debate. I'm not trying to bully you into agreeing with me, if you don't want to believe that I know what I'm talking about then to be honest that's fine with me. But in case you're interested I'll have one last attempt to explain, just to show willing.
First some facts that are (IMO) beyond reasonable doubt. If you don't accept these, then there's really little point reading any further.
(1) TVRs leave the factory with a conventional cooling system using a top stat; with these systems, all flow through the radiator has to go through the stat housing. Stat fitted and closed equals no water flow through the rad. There is no other path for water to get into the rad. In particular, you imply that the bypass would let water into the rad with the stat closed. If you had one, it wouldn't. In any case, (2) TVR did not fit a bypass to their serpentine engines. You haven't got one.
If the stat is fitted and working, it'll open over a defined temperature range. You can get stats with different ranges, but a typical stat would be fully closed at say 75 deg and fully open at around 85 deg. These numbers are approximate.
If the engine puts out more heat than the cooling system can dissipate, the engine temperature can rise well above the stat open temperature. Early modern Griffiths are a classic example, they have a relatively small air intake that is almost entirely obstructed by the number plate. The mesh front on early Chimaeras is also very restrictive. Particularly since the air is encouraged to flow down across the face of the rad rather than approaching it at right angles, causing congestion at the face of the matrix and making it more likely that air will simply bypass the rad and go straight under the car.
If the stat is missing or defective, the cooling system can cool the engine well below the nominal 'stat closed' temperature.
Also, regardless of what the stat and radiator are doing, there's a significant amount of air blast cooling at speed. Depending on ambiant temperature and how hard the engine is working, this can cool the engine well below the stat closed temperature. When I take my V8S down the motorway in sub-zero temperatures, the temperature settles at around 50 deg. It'll cruise indefintely with the stat fully closed, the radiator stone cold and all cooling provided by the cold air blast. The only way to get it up to temperature is to block off the air intake to reduce the air blast cooling, then it runs with the stat just open a crack at about 70 deg.
Finally, the temperature sensors and gauges are neither consistent nor accurate, and the sensor itself is on the front of the engine where it is subject to air blast cooling, so the gauge readings are not particularly reliable.
I believe these factors account completely for the cases you mentioned. Happy to explain how in gory detail if you really want, but I suspect you're as bored of this topic as I am right now.
Can we change the subject now pleeeeaaase?
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
I agree that we should move on and agree to disagree, the interesting thing is I have some TVR docs that state that there is a seperate bypass pipe and not just through the heater. I haven't worked out where but I suspect it may be in the pipework in the footwell behind the dash. The serpentine engine has a seperate pump outlet that is fed externally into the rad circuit on the 520 and John Eales was adament about using it to feedback into the rad. There is also a heating path in the inlet/plenum on some cars as well.
I have seen this arrangement on some 400SEs as well and there are thermostat housings that provide a similar function to the holes in the stat which are used so I think this whole area is not as black and white as we both may think.
The air blast theory is something I have thought about but on the 520 the cold air from the rad is directed right out of the engine bay and doesn't get near the engine. It doesn't explain why a bigger rad drops the temp as the flow through it will be very similar. Done deliberately to improve the cooling and under bonnet temperatures. The ECU system logs the engine and air intake temps and there doesn't appear to be any real discrepency between what the ECU sees. It has a 3/4 inch bypass though that allows some flow through the rad.
If there is no bypass then I agree that the stats effectively controls the temp. The point is we differ on whether there is a bypass or similar there. I can only say I get a warm rad before the stat fully opens. I know the stat fully opens because of the rapid temp change. That to me says there is some kind of bypass function. The temperature range of the car is spot on and it heats up quickly so I will leave it as it is.
Anyway let's move on. I'm sure we will talk about this again... How about 2005?
Steve
I have seen this arrangement on some 400SEs as well and there are thermostat housings that provide a similar function to the holes in the stat which are used so I think this whole area is not as black and white as we both may think.
The air blast theory is something I have thought about but on the 520 the cold air from the rad is directed right out of the engine bay and doesn't get near the engine. It doesn't explain why a bigger rad drops the temp as the flow through it will be very similar. Done deliberately to improve the cooling and under bonnet temperatures. The ECU system logs the engine and air intake temps and there doesn't appear to be any real discrepency between what the ECU sees. It has a 3/4 inch bypass though that allows some flow through the rad.
If there is no bypass then I agree that the stats effectively controls the temp. The point is we differ on whether there is a bypass or similar there. I can only say I get a warm rad before the stat fully opens. I know the stat fully opens because of the rapid temp change. That to me says there is some kind of bypass function. The temperature range of the car is spot on and it heats up quickly so I will leave it as it is.
Anyway let's move on. I'm sure we will talk about this again... How about 2005?
Steve
I pointed one of those laser thingy's at the Y-Piece manifold on my Chimaera once while it had been sat idling for 20 mins. It read 985 degrees celcius 
The header tank was somewhere around 250ish, but where the temp sensor was it was reading 90 almost dead on, the temp gauge was reading over 100c
No wonder these things get so hot in the summer, where the hell does a 1000 degress c of heat dissapate to in GRP car?
Oh yeah and if I remember correctly I pointed the thing at the rubber pipe going into rad and it read about 100ish and coming out it was down to 85ish.
The header tank was somewhere around 250ish, but where the temp sensor was it was reading 90 almost dead on, the temp gauge was reading over 100c
No wonder these things get so hot in the summer, where the hell does a 1000 degress c of heat dissapate to in GRP car?
Oh yeah and if I remember correctly I pointed the thing at the rubber pipe going into rad and it read about 100ish and coming out it was down to 85ish.
I've had the mod-wise 2-stage cooling fitted for several months now and would recommend it -
- it's 10 minutes to fit
- it helps stop fuse blowing
- gets round the standard dodgy otter switch problem
- it reduces the volatility of temperature swings
when going from heavy traffic to higher speeds
- you get a replacement relay with a LED indicator
bulb that you can fit in the instrument binnacle
that tells you that the fans are on or off.
A good piece of kit. I also got the starter motor heat shield (not because I had overheating problems but I
figured that prevention was better than cure), and I'm
going to fit their additional lighting loom so I can safely fit more powerful h/lamp bulbs.
- it's 10 minutes to fit
- it helps stop fuse blowing
- gets round the standard dodgy otter switch problem
- it reduces the volatility of temperature swings
when going from heavy traffic to higher speeds
- you get a replacement relay with a LED indicator
bulb that you can fit in the instrument binnacle
that tells you that the fans are on or off.
A good piece of kit. I also got the starter motor heat shield (not because I had overheating problems but I
figured that prevention was better than cure), and I'm
going to fit their additional lighting loom so I can safely fit more powerful h/lamp bulbs.
quote:
I pointed one of those laser thingy's at the Y-Piece manifold on my Chimaera once while it had been sat idling for 20 mins. It read 985 degrees celcius
The header tank was somewhere around 250ish, but where the temp sensor was it was reading 90 almost dead on, the temp gauge was reading over 100c
No wonder these things get so hot in the summer, where the hell does a 1000 degress c of heat dissapate to in GRP car?
Oh yeah and if I remember correctly I pointed the thing at the rubber pipe going into rad and it read about 100ish and coming out it was down to 85ish.
I'll tek it nobody was impressed with that then
>> Edited by schueymcfee on Thursday 26th September 18:37
quote:
I pointed one of those laser thingy's at the Y-Piece manifold on my Chimaera once while it had been sat idling for 20 mins. It read 985 degrees celcius
The header tank was somewhere around 250ish, but where the temp sensor was it was reading 90 almost dead on, the temp gauge was reading over 100c
No wonder these things get so hot in the summer, where the hell does a 1000 degress c of heat dissapate to in GRP car?
Oh yeah and if I remember correctly I pointed the thing at the rubber pipe going into rad and it read about 100ish and coming out it was down to 85ish.
Jeeeeeeeeeeez those figures are sensational .. glad you posted them for us all.
Oops should have read your post above before replying then!!
:edited to appear more sensational:
quote:
It is actually Infra Red and doesn't send a beam but receives it.
As for scary... how about 20 to 286 degrees on a front brake disc going from 80 to 0 in not very much. Its a wonder anything survives!
Steve
I believe some of the posh ones also send out a laser 'sighting' beam though, to show you exactly what they're pointing at?
Look out for the new boy.
my chim runs on the commute every day, and has to crawl a couple of miles ( can take 2mins or 30 - who knows? ), temp guage routinely gets up to 95. get home, switch off ignition, then switch back on to give fans a chance to work. often the indicated 90-95 is replaced by an idicated <90.
i reckon the sketchy earthing in these motors plays a part.
my chim runs on the commute every day, and has to crawl a couple of miles ( can take 2mins or 30 - who knows? ), temp guage routinely gets up to 95. get home, switch off ignition, then switch back on to give fans a chance to work. often the indicated 90-95 is replaced by an idicated <90.
i reckon the sketchy earthing in these motors plays a part.
Bit late here, but, Steve you have already told us that your water stat has holes drilled in it, so it never closes. When you tried two stage cooling it did overcool for this very reason. Also the otter is in the top hose, ie input to the radiator.One more point, there is an increase in cooling ability when you take a top up supply from the starter motor, in fact an 11 amp increase, so all in all, its very worth while. As far as "if it aint broke" my exhaust wasnt broke, my lights wernt broke, my brakes wernt broke,radio wasnt broke. If you can improve on things, do it.Or your money back!!
quote:
Bit late here, but, Steve you have already told us that your water stat has holes drilled in it, so it never closes. When you tried two stage cooling it did overcool for this very reason. Also the otter is in the top hose, ie input to the radiator.One more point, there is an increase in cooling ability when you take a top up supply from the starter motor, in fact an 11 amp increase, so all in all, its very worth while. As far as "if it aint broke" my exhaust wasnt broke, my lights wernt broke, my brakes wernt broke,radio wasnt broke. If you can improve on things, do it.Or your money back!!
The whole top end has been rebuilt and the stat is a new 74 degree one. The holes are an insurance policy as there is a large H shaped bypass in the pipework to the heater located in the depths of the passenger footwell and so there is bleed through the system. Got the part number. It is in the Griff 500 parts list and spoken to several specialists and they say yep it exists. You can't see it easily as it is at the heater end not in the engine bay. I even have a document from John Ravenscroft saying don't remove it or you screw up my engine. Some were removing it as it was causing a bit of bleed through into the heater.
Spent yesterday playing round tracing a small leak that turned out to be a water pump bolt that needed tweaking. Symptom was that the running temps had gone up by about 10 degrees. Caused by the weeping loosing water after time and introducing air leaks. The rad cap was also iffy so the system was loosing water and this was causing the problem. So sorted it out and checked the temps and yes the rad does indeed start to get warm before the stat opens. The top hose gets to around 60 and the bottom gets to 40. The rad itself is a little lower in temp. when the stat opens completely at around 74 then the temps equalise out.
So I am pretty sure that the stat is not an accurate a temp setter/controller than claimed. Below the opening temp there is cooling effect from the rad. At this temp, the fans are off so no problem with the Mod Wise kit and no effect either.
Above the opening temp, the temp is defined by the thermal equilibrium. End result is on where the temp is more or less controlled by the thermal equilibrium of which the stat is part but the complete owner. The car was idling on my drive for over 20 minutes and stayed at 80 degrees. The fans were cutting in about every 5 or so minutes but everything was sweetness and light. The Mod Wise kit will smooth out the temp with its finer degree of control but basically will not do anything more. If the fans are on full then they are on full.
As for your unit not working, it wasn't the fact that it didn't work it did what it said in terms of operation but I saw no difference in running temps or heat soak compared to without it.
I did put it back yesterday using an adjustable otter switch set it working so that at 70 they come on at half speed and at 80 ish full speed. I do like the idea and think it is great but I just don't see the changes. At a minimum it does run the fans more often so that they are less likley to seize and it is kinder to the electrics. That is an advantage.
Has it changed the temp characteristics? No. Not that I could measure. Has it reduced underbonnet temperatures? Still not sure. If the bonnet is up to measure them then I get an increase as the air flows over the exhaust manifold and acts like a hot air heater. With the bonnet closed, a lot of the air flows out over the top and the effect is reduced. It does circulate the air and stop hot spots forming though which is not a bad thing though. I don't get heat sink into the cabin. Never had.
As for voltage and current drop... main problem is that the fans and headlamps are earthed to the front of the chassis and this corrodes and increase the resistance and drops the power. I have run a second earth to fans and headlamps and yea things are bright. I am running standard bulbs and the lighting is pretty good when I compare it with other car is the Heath household.
As for the if it ain't broke don't fix it... I have tweaked many bits but the whole engine temp thing is a real nightmare in that it is so completely related to other areas and changing one bit can result in another. I am going to be blunt here and say that the standard system is fine and does not fixing. If the running temp is reduced by fixing things then you can start screwing up the ECU mapping. You can also start premature wear in the engine. There is a sweet spot of temp operation that the car should work in. Move out of that at your peril.
Does the two speed fan solve this problem? No or at least it shouldn't do. Doesn't mean that it doesn';t have advantages but if it does suddenly start to reduce temperatures, my reaction is that there is something wrong with the cooling system as the cars do not need fixing in the first place. That something can be the wrong stat or otter switch temp, blocked rad, leaks, air locks etc etc.
My Griff despite its tweaked engine stays in the proscribed temp ranges and I repeat any overheating has been due to a problem. Head gasket going or this seeping water pump gasket causing cooling loss. In this account, I am not going to play around with it because it works.
I like the two speed fan and I think it is worth trying. In my case it does nothing to the car's operating temperature but improves the fan reliability, gives a bit smoother temp control and helps circulate the air under the bonnet. Did it change the operating temp of my car? No. Did it reduce heat sink? No. Am I going to break the car so it can fix it? No.
Does it get a mention in the new edition of the Griff book? Yes. Several times. Were they positive? Yes. Is it essential? No? Or at least it shouldn't be if the system is sorted out in the first place.
Steve
quote:
checked the temps and yes the rad does indeed start to get warm before the stat opens. The top hose gets to around 60 and the bottom gets to 40. The rad itself is a little lower in temp. when the stat opens completely at around 74 then the temps equalise out.
So I am pretty sure that the stat is not an accurate a temp setter/controller than claimed. Below the opening temp there is cooling effect from the rad.
I don't share you conclusions from this evidence, in fact there's nothing here to suggest you have anything but a conventional top stat system, just like the one I've seen on every other Rover V8 TVR I looked at. To understand why you see this behaviour, you need to realize the stat opens progressively over a temperature range (I don't know what this range is for your stat, but it may be starting to open below 74 deg). Also consider that you're measuring the temperature on the outside of the pipes some distance away from the stat, and these pipes are initially filled with cold water. Obviously, as you trickle hot water into these pipes it will take some time for these to warm up and anyway the outside of the pipes will never be quite as hot as the water inside the stat housing. So just because you measure temperatures here below the nominal stat opening temperature, don't leap to the conclusion that water flow through the rad is not controlled by the stat. Follow the top hose back from the swirl tank, and see that it goes straight into the stat housing at the front of the inlet manifold. There is no path for water to get into the radiator without coming out of the stat housing. If your stat is fitted and working, it DOES control the water flow into the rad, and hence the engine temperature.
To be honest I think we've pretty much done this one to death, and I'm not particularly bothered about convincing you if you still choose to believe your cooling system works in some bizarre way. Only problem I have is when you advise people that uprating the radiator or fans can cause overcooling; unless there's something wrong with your cooling system this is simply not the case. Other than that, I'm happy to agree to disagree.
This is something that we could probably sort out very quickly over a pint with the aid of a couple of beer mats. You coming to the next Northants meeting, next Sunday lunchtime? Red Lion, Braefield-on-the-Green, just south of Northamptom.
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
I think we are all done on this. But i will say my stat(82) stays closed until it opens and when it does two stage cooling works great. The latest spec includes two fuses, current boost for improved cooling and keeping the fans on after switch off, and all now in a box. Thankyou and goodnight.
Pete - my final words I promise. Well on this anyway
I have not advised people not to uprate fans and rads only that they need to be careful that they don't run out of the temperature sweet spot. For various reasons, this seems to be the case on the discussions I have had with some owners that have done it. If you do, it then all that has happened is swapping one set of problems for another.
I have several times in articles in Sprint suggested that when replacing a rad, it is worth getting an uprated core. When discussing enegine upgrades, I always mention the importance of upgrading the cooling system to cope with the extra heat. Indeed on the 520, I had a custom rad made so I am well aware of the importance of getting cooling right.
The problem is that there is a ground swell out there that believes that TVRs overheat and that they need to immediately upgrade the car's cooling system. The fact is that the cooling systems on the Griffs and Chimaeras are OK providing they are looked after and maintained. The trouble is that many don't and start putting the temp problems they see as being normal when they are caused by faults that should be addressed.
The facts are:
1. Some modifications have led to systems that do not ever get above 90 degrees and so the ECU never has chance to adapt the mixture settings. In some cases that is not an issue but in others it is. It is changing the car so that it behaves outside its normal operation. If you want to run permenantly in the default settings then this is can be ignored.
2. IF the car is running at a lower temperature it will be subject to greater wear. Again dependent on the car and so on. That means waiting for the car to warm up and getting the water temp at a minimum of around 70 degrees and that should be the minimum temp for the car.
In other words, if the system is modified so that either of these happen then there are other risks involved. Do I simply sit and say nothing or do I make people aware that what ever they do they need to make sure that they don't create other problems. I take the view that owners need to be aware of the bigger picture. Do I ignore reports that with with this mod the car never goes above 70 in traffic and runs at 60 when cruising? To me that is a modification that has potentially traded one set of problems for another and I will state that. For the owmer it could be the best thing since sliced bread until he finds the engine has worn out prematurely. I try and give an honest and balanced appraisal based on the information that I have. If someone mods the system but stays within the characteristics i.e. the 70-90 degree sweet spot then fine. Don't have an issue. The trouble is most owners are not aware of the problems that overcooling can create.
Part of that bigger picture is that there does appear to be some flow through the rad before the engine temp gets to the stat range. I will be more exact in that the rad temp increases way before the stat opens. This a point we have discussed to death and one where I see changes and you say they shouldn't happen. OK this is a topic for further investigation. Be aware that holes are drilled through stats and there are Rover V8 stat housings that have bypasses in them as well. The question is really one of how common are these? They would explain the charcateristics I have seen but there may be other factors at work. I hear what you say that it shouldn't happen but it does not explain why it does on some cars.
Given that there is this characteristic in some cars (the number and cause is under investigation) then the role of the radiator and stat in controlling the temperature changes and this can explain why temps are lowered to points that are generally accepted to be too low for the engine. They are other factors involved such as air flow. Again we can argue about the exact mechnaism involved but short of pulling the top of my engine apart to see exactly what is going on I can't see what else can be done. I agree with your explanation but that doesn't explain what I see happening. Point of discussion. Best done over beer as you say.
Again, I believe in providing the full picture that says hold on, there are some funny things going on here that need to be considered.
There are some strange effects that and also that they are doing it for the right reasons and not because the original system is faulty. Some of the reasons I have heard for this mods are very strange. One was I didn't like the fan coming on so much as it would wear it out! But that is normal says I. Oh and if it doesn't come on so much it can sieze just when you need it. He ended up spending hundreds fixing a problem that wasn't there and in the process created a couple of others.
So I do take issue that all the cars need to be uprated because there is an inherent design problem that needs to be fixed when the problem is due to some other fault with the car like not chceking coolent levels, fitting duff mesh, inaccurate temperature gauages, coolent leaks, duff or wrongly specced otter switches and thermostats or the host of other reasons. I agree that the margin is smaller.
I class the two speed as an enhancement. If correctly fitted - David I got it running correctly yesterday I'll email you with some feedback on what I think was wrong - it offers smoother temperature control, helps circulate air under the bonnet, stops the fans from seizing and helps with heat soak. That is why it has several positive mentions in the new book. That is why it is worth considering. These are all positive things. If someone asks me is it worth doing such and such as my car is overheating, my reply would be why is the car overheating in the first place? If that is assumed to being negative towards various enhancements then I apologise but to me it is the appropriate question to ask. If someone asks me about upgrading their cooling system I will say be careful and make sure that you don't overcool the car because of the wear and ECU adjust and usually ask why you want to do it in the first place? If that is assumed to being negative towards various enhancements then I apologise but to me it is the appropriate reply and question to ask.
Steve
>> Edited by shpub on Monday 7th October 12:17
I have not advised people not to uprate fans and rads only that they need to be careful that they don't run out of the temperature sweet spot. For various reasons, this seems to be the case on the discussions I have had with some owners that have done it. If you do, it then all that has happened is swapping one set of problems for another.
I have several times in articles in Sprint suggested that when replacing a rad, it is worth getting an uprated core. When discussing enegine upgrades, I always mention the importance of upgrading the cooling system to cope with the extra heat. Indeed on the 520, I had a custom rad made so I am well aware of the importance of getting cooling right.
The problem is that there is a ground swell out there that believes that TVRs overheat and that they need to immediately upgrade the car's cooling system. The fact is that the cooling systems on the Griffs and Chimaeras are OK providing they are looked after and maintained. The trouble is that many don't and start putting the temp problems they see as being normal when they are caused by faults that should be addressed.
The facts are:
1. Some modifications have led to systems that do not ever get above 90 degrees and so the ECU never has chance to adapt the mixture settings. In some cases that is not an issue but in others it is. It is changing the car so that it behaves outside its normal operation. If you want to run permenantly in the default settings then this is can be ignored.
2. IF the car is running at a lower temperature it will be subject to greater wear. Again dependent on the car and so on. That means waiting for the car to warm up and getting the water temp at a minimum of around 70 degrees and that should be the minimum temp for the car.
In other words, if the system is modified so that either of these happen then there are other risks involved. Do I simply sit and say nothing or do I make people aware that what ever they do they need to make sure that they don't create other problems. I take the view that owners need to be aware of the bigger picture. Do I ignore reports that with with this mod the car never goes above 70 in traffic and runs at 60 when cruising? To me that is a modification that has potentially traded one set of problems for another and I will state that. For the owmer it could be the best thing since sliced bread until he finds the engine has worn out prematurely. I try and give an honest and balanced appraisal based on the information that I have. If someone mods the system but stays within the characteristics i.e. the 70-90 degree sweet spot then fine. Don't have an issue. The trouble is most owners are not aware of the problems that overcooling can create.
Part of that bigger picture is that there does appear to be some flow through the rad before the engine temp gets to the stat range. I will be more exact in that the rad temp increases way before the stat opens. This a point we have discussed to death and one where I see changes and you say they shouldn't happen. OK this is a topic for further investigation. Be aware that holes are drilled through stats and there are Rover V8 stat housings that have bypasses in them as well. The question is really one of how common are these? They would explain the charcateristics I have seen but there may be other factors at work. I hear what you say that it shouldn't happen but it does not explain why it does on some cars.
Given that there is this characteristic in some cars (the number and cause is under investigation) then the role of the radiator and stat in controlling the temperature changes and this can explain why temps are lowered to points that are generally accepted to be too low for the engine. They are other factors involved such as air flow. Again we can argue about the exact mechnaism involved but short of pulling the top of my engine apart to see exactly what is going on I can't see what else can be done. I agree with your explanation but that doesn't explain what I see happening. Point of discussion. Best done over beer as you say.
Again, I believe in providing the full picture that says hold on, there are some funny things going on here that need to be considered.
There are some strange effects that and also that they are doing it for the right reasons and not because the original system is faulty. Some of the reasons I have heard for this mods are very strange. One was I didn't like the fan coming on so much as it would wear it out! But that is normal says I. Oh and if it doesn't come on so much it can sieze just when you need it. He ended up spending hundreds fixing a problem that wasn't there and in the process created a couple of others.
So I do take issue that all the cars need to be uprated because there is an inherent design problem that needs to be fixed when the problem is due to some other fault with the car like not chceking coolent levels, fitting duff mesh, inaccurate temperature gauages, coolent leaks, duff or wrongly specced otter switches and thermostats or the host of other reasons. I agree that the margin is smaller.
I class the two speed as an enhancement. If correctly fitted - David I got it running correctly yesterday I'll email you with some feedback on what I think was wrong - it offers smoother temperature control, helps circulate air under the bonnet, stops the fans from seizing and helps with heat soak. That is why it has several positive mentions in the new book. That is why it is worth considering. These are all positive things. If someone asks me is it worth doing such and such as my car is overheating, my reply would be why is the car overheating in the first place? If that is assumed to being negative towards various enhancements then I apologise but to me it is the appropriate question to ask. If someone asks me about upgrading their cooling system I will say be careful and make sure that you don't overcool the car because of the wear and ECU adjust and usually ask why you want to do it in the first place? If that is assumed to being negative towards various enhancements then I apologise but to me it is the appropriate reply and question to ask.
Steve
>> Edited by shpub on Monday 7th October 12:17
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