Another body off thread.
Discussion
Might as well say it as it looks, those welds are horrid.
They are cold welds with little penetration and signs of porosity. Particularly with the deep section between plate and tube.
They are salvagable however, once ground out.
Due to the long wire stick-out needed to get into the corner and to prevent burn-back, the wire feed needs increased substantially and the gas flow needs increasing to get right in there and prevent porosity.
Here's the weld on my chassis repair, it's not perfect by any means, but I'm not a welding pro.
Sorry for such a negative comment in a positive thread
Dougal
Classic Chim said:
Dougal, do you have more pictures of your chassis welds please.
The very welds your talking about, actually all of them.
Thanks
If we're going to do this, some really good close up photos of the welds on your chassis might be good too perhaps as it's borderline if you can see enough from the zoomed in clips. The very welds your talking about, actually all of them.
Thanks
There are welds and welds and there are welders and welders.
In an ideal world they would all do the best fantastic identical welds but that is not the case.
I have employed welders on several occasions to weld steelwork on contracts. Some work was absolutely fantastic and others were okay. The welds were never going to be laboratory tested and steelwork was usually overkill in size and dimensions.
My point is, they all can't be fabulous welds and just maybe too much emphasis is being put on this aspect of the thread.
Alan is doing a great job and given this is very much a DIY affair with work being done on the sensible side of economical, this isn't the place to pick holes in the project.
May I suggest if you have any real concerns, (which I honestly don't think there are) pm him direct.
In an ideal world they would all do the best fantastic identical welds but that is not the case.
I have employed welders on several occasions to weld steelwork on contracts. Some work was absolutely fantastic and others were okay. The welds were never going to be laboratory tested and steelwork was usually overkill in size and dimensions.
My point is, they all can't be fabulous welds and just maybe too much emphasis is being put on this aspect of the thread.
Alan is doing a great job and given this is very much a DIY affair with work being done on the sensible side of economical, this isn't the place to pick holes in the project.
May I suggest if you have any real concerns, (which I honestly don't think there are) pm him direct.
I'm guessing that this rebuke is aimed at me?
Well I make no apology for pointing out blatantly bad workmanship. And yes, every weld should be just that, two pieces of metal melted together and the filler rod or wire is just that, a filler. When incorrect technique or settings are employed with MIG the result can be that blobs of melted wire are merely deposited on the surface of the metal with little or no penetration. Yes that may stick the materials together but they are not welded together and there will be little strength in the weld.
This is in no way 'picking holes' on a project, quite the opposite in fact, trying to give constructive critism. You will note that I not only mentioned the defects, but suggested how such an outcome could be avoided and that the situation could be adequately addressed.
I also think that open forum is the best way to communicate any help advice or criticism and gives others the opportunity of commenting and discussing the subject. This for example has allowed you to voice your approval of the welding in question and state that you have been happy with similar work in the past. Others may also voice their opinions.
Alun, I'm sure that if you feel I am being unduly critical of work, which I understand you have entrusted to others, you will say so. I suspect however that you may not have been totally happy with that particular part of the job and may appreciate your suspicions being echoed. It is always tricky to confront poor workmanship. As I said I am not a pro welder but I do have near 50 years experience and although my welds may not be 'fabulous' they will be tidy, serviceable welds and certainly not of the sort seen here. Unfortunately I won't be back home until the weekend so cannot provide further photos just now. I could, if you wish, post that photo on the welding forum I frequent and invite comment. There are some very helpful pro welders on there who will voice an opinion which may help?
All the best with a great project.
Dougal.
Well I make no apology for pointing out blatantly bad workmanship. And yes, every weld should be just that, two pieces of metal melted together and the filler rod or wire is just that, a filler. When incorrect technique or settings are employed with MIG the result can be that blobs of melted wire are merely deposited on the surface of the metal with little or no penetration. Yes that may stick the materials together but they are not welded together and there will be little strength in the weld.
This is in no way 'picking holes' on a project, quite the opposite in fact, trying to give constructive critism. You will note that I not only mentioned the defects, but suggested how such an outcome could be avoided and that the situation could be adequately addressed.
I also think that open forum is the best way to communicate any help advice or criticism and gives others the opportunity of commenting and discussing the subject. This for example has allowed you to voice your approval of the welding in question and state that you have been happy with similar work in the past. Others may also voice their opinions.
Alun, I'm sure that if you feel I am being unduly critical of work, which I understand you have entrusted to others, you will say so. I suspect however that you may not have been totally happy with that particular part of the job and may appreciate your suspicions being echoed. It is always tricky to confront poor workmanship. As I said I am not a pro welder but I do have near 50 years experience and although my welds may not be 'fabulous' they will be tidy, serviceable welds and certainly not of the sort seen here. Unfortunately I won't be back home until the weekend so cannot provide further photos just now. I could, if you wish, post that photo on the welding forum I frequent and invite comment. There are some very helpful pro welders on there who will voice an opinion which may help?
All the best with a great project.
Dougal.
These are what you want to see in an ideal world:
Thanks to this thread I'm three evenings into taking the body off mine too, two of those evenings have been spent getting exhaust manifolds off, the drivers side was a real pig, had to take the engine mount off to get enough leverage on one of the bolts and even then it was starting to round so ground up an old ring spanner and luckily managed to get it to shift. Even the top start bolt took ages to get undone as it had corroded into the bell housing.
Anyone else ever found the rear drivers seat bolts have basically ripped through the floor?!
Thanks to this thread I'm three evenings into taking the body off mine too, two of those evenings have been spent getting exhaust manifolds off, the drivers side was a real pig, had to take the engine mount off to get enough leverage on one of the bolts and even then it was starting to round so ground up an old ring spanner and luckily managed to get it to shift. Even the top start bolt took ages to get undone as it had corroded into the bell housing.
Anyone else ever found the rear drivers seat bolts have basically ripped through the floor?!
What’s your prognosis of this weld Dougal. Is this acceptable or not ?
Is there enough penetration here.
Let’s not forget these wee plates are welded from underneath too.
I’m not happy with the corner weld myself.
It’s looks like two different people have done the welding to me. I was not present other than some early aligning and measuring.
I’ve not touched the welder, let’s be clear about that.
Is there enough penetration here.
Let’s not forget these wee plates are welded from underneath too.
I’m not happy with the corner weld myself.
It’s looks like two different people have done the welding to me. I was not present other than some early aligning and measuring.
I’ve not touched the welder, let’s be clear about that.
Alun, that looks good to me. I also thought, looking at your other photos that two different welders must have been involved.
With MIG, adequate penetration is always the concern, it is possible to have a great looking weld with little penetration so it's also important that the welder knows he's using the right sort of voltage for the job in hand. However with thin materials, adequate penetration is rarely a concern and can probably be judged by appearance. A good looking weld is more than that, it indicates that the arc has form a puddle of the materials and this puddle has been moved along the joint effectively melting the materials together.
Hope this helps.
Dougal.
With MIG, adequate penetration is always the concern, it is possible to have a great looking weld with little penetration so it's also important that the welder knows he's using the right sort of voltage for the job in hand. However with thin materials, adequate penetration is rarely a concern and can probably be judged by appearance. A good looking weld is more than that, it indicates that the arc has form a puddle of the materials and this puddle has been moved along the joint effectively melting the materials together.
Hope this helps.
Dougal.
Rather than turn my thread into an online farce I’m in contact with a friend who is an all singing all dancing time served welder fabricator who has ran his own company for years and employs many welders. . He is going to inspect it.
This might take until next week before he can get to me so watch this space.
I can’t argue without the correct knowledge.
I agree that front corner looks poor.
This might take until next week before he can get to me so watch this space.
I can’t argue without the correct knowledge.
I agree that front corner looks poor.
Well just see this part of the post regarding weld quality and from someone that does weld (not full time I might add) no reason to have shoddy welds on new clean steel they should look like the above two pictures, yes Alun if that last pic is your chassis that weld looks the dogs danglies fella
Dougal9887 said:
Alun, that looks good to me. I also thought, looking at your other photos that two different welders must have been involved.
With MIG, adequate penetration is always the concern, it is possible to have a great looking weld with little penetration so it's also important that the welder knows he's using the right sort of voltage for the job in hand. However with thin materials, adequate penetration is rarely a concern and can probably be judged by appearance. A good looking weld is more than that, it indicates that the arc has form a puddle of the materials and this puddle has been moved along the joint effectively melting the materials together.
Hope this helps.
Dougal.
That’s great info, not just for me.With MIG, adequate penetration is always the concern, it is possible to have a great looking weld with little penetration so it's also important that the welder knows he's using the right sort of voltage for the job in hand. However with thin materials, adequate penetration is rarely a concern and can probably be judged by appearance. A good looking weld is more than that, it indicates that the arc has form a puddle of the materials and this puddle has been moved along the joint effectively melting the materials together.
Hope this helps.
Dougal.
I’ve just been told if it’s done by MIG it should look like a machine has done it.
Zener said:
Well just see this part of the post regarding weld quality and from someone that does weld (not full time I might add) no reason to have shoddy welds on new clean steel they should look like the above two pictures, yes Alun if that last pic is your chassis that weld looks the b
ks fella
Thanks for that. I’m in bits here. Total shock but that corner, It looks poor so probably is! ks fella I think because it’s been ground back it sort of looks worse but porosity must be an issue here if Dougal is correct which I’m sure he is.
Edited by Classic Chim on Tuesday 14th January 10:24
Edited by Classic Chim on Tuesday 14th January 10:35
Edited by Classic Chim on Tuesday 14th January 16:29
As a non-welder, can i just say that for me the spirit of trying to help transcends all issues about tone of voice in the posts.
We are all amateurs to varying degrees (360 in my case
), so where stuff of a technical nature is important, it is better to discuss it rather then avoid doing so because of not wanting to offend.
This thread gets great admiration from me - I might be able to do simple meccano type jobs (usually at the third attempt, having phoned a friend several times), but the skill levels required for this kind of work are well beyond me.
Keep up the good work Alun, and I hope much of the feedback helps you.
We are all amateurs to varying degrees (360 in my case
), so where stuff of a technical nature is important, it is better to discuss it rather then avoid doing so because of not wanting to offend. This thread gets great admiration from me - I might be able to do simple meccano type jobs (usually at the third attempt, having phoned a friend several times), but the skill levels required for this kind of work are well beyond me.
Keep up the good work Alun, and I hope much of the feedback helps you.
Classic Chim
This short video is really good, you may find it to be of some benefit https://youtu.be/RSagv69KAB4
This short video is really good, you may find it to be of some benefit https://youtu.be/RSagv69KAB4
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