Another body off thread.

[Classic Chim]

EddyP said:

Have you got someone lined up to do the blasting for you Alun? You're not that far from me so would be interesting to know who you're using.
There's a guy local to me who makes big bits of kit for quarries, I'm going to see if he can blast mine.

Hi Ed.
Yes a local guy i’ve used before. I think it just comes under Rugby Powder Coating. Payne’s Lane.
He shot blasted and powder coated my exhaust tray and bits years ago.

[Classic Chim]

ChimpOnGas said:

Be careful not to over thin your mix Alun, don't thin beyond 10% or it'll take forever to cure!

I went with the special 'Winter Grade' from Jotun to counter slow cure times because, errrr.... its winter right now

Based on a minimum ambient application temp of 7 degrees C the basic rules are...

1. Make your mix in a higher temp environment, mixing at 20 degrees really helps get the reaction started

2. At 7*c wait a minimum of 12 hours before re-coating

3. Waiting 24 hours between coats is better

4. Wait an absolute minimum of 24 hours before putting the painted surface into service

5. Five days curing time before putting the painted surface into service is far better

6. All two component epoxy paints can only be considered fully cured after 3 months

The above is for the 'Winter Grade' I chose, a regular grade epoxy mastic applied below 10*c will likely take days to cure... if at all!

I’ve watched a couple of video’s for the Rustmusters E121 2 pack.
Spraying it does go on well I notice
Says add thinners at a rate of 20%
I’ll make a call to Rustbusters before just to check. Very helpfull I noticed when I originally made my enquiry.
Can’t flipping wait Dave

What about in a heated spray booth. I’ve yet to delve into it but if I can keep it at 24*C for an extended period during painting then curing that should help get the all important reaction going

Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 5th February 23:03

[EddyP]

ChimpOnGas said:

Be careful not to over thin your mix Alun, don't thin beyond 10% or it'll take forever to cure!

I went with the special 'Winter Grade' from Jotun to counter slow cure times because, errrr.... its winter right now

Based on a minimum ambient application temp of 7 degrees C the basic rules are...

1. Make your mix in a higher temp environment, mixing at 20 degrees really helps get the reaction started

2. At 7*c wait a minimum of 12 hours before re-coating

3. Waiting 24 hours between coats is better

4. Wait an absolute minimum of 24 hours before putting the painted surface into service

5. Five days curing time before putting the painted surface into service is far better

6. All two component epoxy paints can only be considered fully cured after 3 months

The above is for the 'Winter Grade' I chose, a regular grade epoxy mastic applied below 10*c will likely take days to cure... if at all!

How many coats did you do? Does it have a special primer too?

[Classic Chim]

EddyP said:

How many coats did you do? Does it have a special primer too?

The Rustbuster EM121 is a primer/ finish 2 pack which can go direct to steel.
Rustbusters themselves suggest it’s good direct to chassis. You can use a primer of which Rustbusters produce but you need to get paint over it as it will absorb moisture.

I’ll probably do wishbone pick up points ( lugs) and any edges via a bit of stripe painting (if I’ve remembered the term correctly ) just to get a good covering on those edges.

Personally I’m not sure how many coats it will need via spraying.
A call is in order

[ChimpOnGas]

Classic Chim said:

What about in a heated spray booth. I’ve yet to delve into it but if I can keep it at 24*C for an extended period during painting then curing that should help get the all important reaction going

A heated spray booth solves everything Alun, and your sprayed out finish is going to look the nuts mate

Just follow Rustbusters instructions, my winter grade Jotunmastic 90 Aluminum is a bit different, for starters it's a 3.5:1 mix not the Rustbuster's 121 1:1 mix.

EddyP said:

How many coats did you do? Does it have a special primer too?

Two coats at 150 DFT um, the Jotunmastic 90 Aluminum is a DTM (direct to metal) paint system, the first coat is effectively a galvanic primer so it needs to sit up directly against the steel substrate which becomes the cathode, the aluminum element suspended within the paint acts as the sacrificial anode.

The Jotunmastic range of 2k epoxy mastic paints are most commonly used to protect localised repairs and general ongoing coating maintenance in the industrial marine industry, they can are are sprayed out if thinned sufficiently when applied to large surfaces such as a ship hull, but stripe coating is the most common application method which typically delivers the following finish....



Alun's sprayed chassis will be prettier than mine, he can expect this type of finish.....



My key objective for the 2k epoxy mastic coating I've chosen being best in class longevity over cosmetics, however both application methods will give a far superior service life than chip prone powder coat.

[Penelope Stopit]

Dougal9887 said:

Yes, I am. And not just based on hope, but on hard evidence. Test pieces were run first for the various joints to ensure sufficient penetration. Those settings and technique were repeated on the job. This is the only way to ensure that you are not just producing a pretty weld, but with little penetration, which lacks strength. You can see from these test pieces how the weld goes right through the materials.

Now understand what's required to be sure as possible of a good weld

Good information

Nice job

[Classic Chim]

Penelope Stopit said:

Dougal9887 said:

Yes, I am. And not just based on hope, but on hard evidence. Test pieces were run first for the various joints to ensure sufficient penetration. Those settings and technique were repeated on the job. This is the only way to ensure that you are not just producing a pretty weld, but with little penetration, which lacks strength. You can see from these test pieces how the weld goes right through the materials.

Now understand what's required to be sure as possible of a good weld

Good information

Nice job

Agreed. What these very informative pictures show is the importance of penetration but not too much of it.

So as we would never normally see this view of welded tubes, when we now look at the welds from the outside, colouring of the steel is a good indicator of the level of penetration.
Again a black art, too much and you create fatigue points, not enough and you have a weak join.

Good stuff

[Dougal9887]

Unfortunately heat discoloration of the steel is no indication of the level of penetration or indeed of any at all, merely that the metal got hot.
Dougal

[Classic Chim]

What is an indicator of level of penetration from looking at a welded joint.
I’m not a welder!
Thanks.

Edited by Classic Chim on Thursday 6th February 22:26

[SILICONEKID 357HP]

ChimpOnGas said:

Classic Chim said:

What about in a heated spray booth. I’ve yet to delve into it but if I can keep it at 24*C for an extended period during painting then curing that should help get the all important reaction going

A heated spray booth solves everything Alun, and your sprayed out finish is going to look the nuts mate

Just follow Rustbusters instructions, my winter grade Jotunmastic 90 Aluminum is a bit different, for starters it's a 3.5:1 mix not the Rustbuster's 121 1:1 mix.

EddyP said:

How many coats did you do? Does it have a special primer too?

Two coats at 150 DFT um, the Jotunmastic 90 Aluminum is a DTM (direct to metal) paint system, the first coat is effectively a galvanic primer so it needs to sit up directly against the steel substrate which becomes the cathode, the aluminum element suspended within the paint acts as the sacrificial anode.

The Jotunmastic range of 2k epoxy mastic paints are most commonly used to protect localised repairs and general ongoing coating maintenance in the industrial marine industry, they can are are sprayed out if thinned sufficiently when applied to large surfaces such as a ship hull, but stripe coating is the most common application method which typically delivers the following finish....



Alun's sprayed chassis will be prettier than mine, he can expect this type of finish.....



My key objective for the 2k epoxy mastic coating I've chosen being best in class longevity over cosmetics, however both application methods will give a far superior service life than chip prone powder coat.

I brush painted that rust buster stuff and ended up in A&E ,I could t breath ,its strong stuff .

[Dougal9887]

Quote
What is an indicator of level of penetration from looking at a welded joint.
I’m not a welder!
Thanks.

Unfortunately again, you can't.
The only way is to weld a test piece at the welders suggested setting or your own best estimate, note the wire speed, voltage and direction and speed of travel used and inspect the weld, by cutting open if necessary. If satisfactory, those are the settings and technique used on the job.
On thick steel, where there won't be through penetration, the method used is to section the welded test piece, bring the cut to a high polish and acid etch. This will reveal the weld nugget penetration.
Dougal.

[SILICONEKID 357HP]

ChimpOnGas said:

Classic Chim said:

What about in a heated spray booth. I’ve yet to delve into it but if I can keep it at 24*C for an extended period during painting then curing that should help get the all important reaction going

A heated spray booth solves everything Alun, and your sprayed out finish is going to look the nuts mate

Just follow Rustbusters instructions, my winter grade Jotunmastic 90 Aluminum is a bit different, for starters it's a 3.5:1 mix not the Rustbuster's 121 1:1 mix.

EddyP said:

How many coats did you do? Does it have a special primer too?

Two coats at 150 DFT um, the Jotunmastic 90 Aluminum is a DTM (direct to metal) paint system, the first coat is effectively a galvanic primer so it needs to sit up directly against the steel substrate which becomes the cathode, the aluminum element suspended within the paint acts as the sacrificial anode.

The Jotunmastic range of 2k epoxy mastic paints are most commonly used to protect localised repairs and general ongoing coating maintenance in the industrial marine industry, they can are are sprayed out if thinned sufficiently when applied to large surfaces such as a ship hull, but stripe coating is the most common application method which typically delivers the following finish....



Alun's sprayed chassis will be prettier than mine, he can expect this type of finish.....



My key objective for the 2k epoxy mastic coating I've chosen being best in class longevity over cosmetics, however both application methods will give a far superior service life than chip prone powder coat.

I brush painted that rust buster stuff and ended up in A&E ,I could t breath ,its strong stuff .

[SILICONEKID 357HP]

I cleaned mine with panel adesicmve and hand painted the outriggers and wish bones .Its not petty but there isn't any flaking .
It's been on about 6 years .

[Dougal9887]

Classic Chim said:

What is an indicator of level of penetration from looking at a welded joint.
I’m not a welder!
Thanks.

Edited by Classic Chim on Thursday 6th February 22:26

I should have added above that on the thin, 1.6mm steel we're talking about, a visually good weld most probably has good penetration. It looks good because a puddle of molten steel has been achieved and the puddle moved along the joint leaving a smooth welded finish. This molten puddle will almost certainly penetrate right through the joint on thin material.
In contrast, in a poor looking weld, this puddle will not have formed. The molten wire will be deposited in blobs against the cold steel and will have a lumpy, dis-jointed appearance with little penetration.
This is why good looking welds are important and its not just visual appeal. Tidying up lumpy welds by grinding does nothing for the underlying problem.
Fortunately, a poor weld is easily sorted, grind it right back, and start again!
Dougal.

[dhutch]

Dougal9887 said:

On thick steel, where there won't be through penetration, the method used is to section the welded test piece, bring the cut to a high polish and acid etch. This will reveal the weld nugget penetration.

And looks sexy af to anyone mildly interested in it.

[dhutch]

SILICONEKID 357HP said:

I brush painted that rust buster stuff and ended up in A&E ,I could t breath ,its strong stuff .

Slightly supprised by that. Only ever used epoxy ali effectively 'outside' but understood it to be absolutely fine to brush. Unlike spraying isocyanate containing 2pk paints.

What was the outcome of the hospital trip?

[Tyre Tread]

dhutch said:

SILICONEKID 357HP said:

I brush painted that rust buster stuff and ended up in A&E ,I could t breath ,its strong stuff .

Slightly supprised by that. Only ever used epoxy ali effectively 'outside' but understood it to be absolutely fine to brush. Unlike spraying isocyanate containing 2pk paints.

What was the outcome of the hospital trip?

Brain damage with an obsession over money.

[ChimpOnGas]

dhutch said:

SILICONEKID 357HP said:

I brush painted that rust buster stuff and ended up in A&E ,I could t breath ,its strong stuff .

Slightly supprised by that. Only ever used epoxy ali effectively 'outside' but understood it to be absolutely fine to brush. Unlike spraying isocyanate containing 2pk paints.

What was the outcome of the hospital trip?

Me and a mate sealed my wood floors in my last house with an industrial 2k floor varnish, my mate ended up puking outside in the street and I wasn't right for a full day so you do need to be careful.

Good ventilation with two component coatings is essential, the floor by the way was mint and in 7 years of pretty heavy foot traffic it never marked once, in my opinion epoxy coating systems are totally unbeatable. When I was in restoration our painter had worked all his life with every paint system known to man and he swore by two pack as we called it then, this was in the early 90's when there were less restrictions, I believe paint shops are much tighter regulated now and everything is water based with a 2k clear coat just to protect it.

These two component paints we were using were full of deadly isocyanates, our painter would apply them wearing a full hooded externally air fed space suit, when he ended his day he used to love to say....

"If it smells bad & makes you puke, that's the good stuff boy"

[phazed]

I had my wood floors done last year, (out of very little interest!). Guy used a water based product, 3 or 4 coats in an afternoon.

Still looks as good as new............water based products are progressing from the rubbish initial products!

Back on topic.............

[roseytvr]

Tyre Tread said:

Brain damage with an obsession over money.

😂 😂 😂