Another body off thread.
Discussion
Sorry chaps crack on, ive searched for these threads myself in the past and had to spend ages scrolling through to find the relevent info which is a pita but hey I can’t see this thread being that useful compared to the existing ones which detail this job far better than I could.
It’s a very valid question Daz asks and my answer is yes it can add value to your car but not so much financially.
If you do it all yourself and remove the anal need to replace every nut and washer, concentrate on what needs doing then you could do the lot for 2k but then you lose days or maybe weeks of your time assembling it. That alone probably saves 3k.
I’m turning green, gone off cars and the whole bulls
t that surrounds them but I still need a car,, looking around there is nothing that comes close to these cars. Nothing.
Classic cars are all way out of date to be used in any meaningful way and rust like hell. It’s a constant worry and cost.
Our Chassis have huge tolerances, riggers can be anything from 10 mm to 30 mm out from side to side, luckily we have 4 wheel alignment so anomalies can be dialled out.
This all makes for a great simple car to work on.
It’s only by removing the body do you see just how basic and simple it all is.
Compared to cutting out floor pans and rotton sills or the dreaded suspension pick up points that plague most old cars Tvr are simple enough.
With a good covering on a properly prepared chassis TVR’s metalwork is nothing like the concern you’d have trying to use any other form of old car on the road.
If these cars are about pleasure then just having a nicely finished chassis don’t half look good
Which let’s be honest on the 3 occasions people drive the best Tvr around mainly going to a few shows that clean sexy chassis really does matter.
I’ve had that anal need to have everything looking like new but not anymore.
It’s a car I want to use and be used, it’s had investment to make it so, I’m very close to selling but I I simply can’t find anything that touches it unless it’s quite new,,, yuck mostly because of my ecu, it’s wiring and solid ability, tuned by a pro, my car does fast and slow in equal measure, rain and heat don’t effect it, it’s been mastered.
I’ve got myself in a position where I’ve spent the money to get the car I can do my stuff in until retirement but I’m still thinking of selling, not straight away, I’d like to give myself another year driving the car knowing there’s no longer any hidden scare stories, until you know the riggers are sound and I think most riggers were rotting by 5 years after production, it’s a constant nag.
Knowing your car is 100% when driving it is a big thrill, one I want to enjoy, mostly my Ecu has me in love with the car. If someone said here’s the money set off around the world like Ben did I’d be gone by 4am the next day.
There’s not many cars 20 years old I’d feel that confident about.
The real problem is tuning them to the max, great for bragging rights, ste to drive and you lose all the abilities and class I’ve talked about.
It has to be just as much fun at 40 mph as 140.
Mine starts with 6 inches of snow and ice all around it and a recorded -10* and instantly fired up after 3 days left like that,,, and like my old Volvo...
This is what makes it such a great car and one I couldn’t hope to own again, I’m never spending 20k to rebuild a car again in a hurry.
PS
My favourite owner is someone I’ve never met and only talked to twice I think.
He’s a mountain climber so as I worked at height for years already a hero to me but when I discovered he used his Tuscan all year round with massive mileage covered over many years I was inspired,, he’s probably had two engine builds for all I know but just to fly against the wind and be an individual who really gets the best out of his car and his life was what I was looking for and why I did what I’ve done. fk all to do with resale value.
I hate this poxy money thing,,, such bullst, Daz you’ve spent 5K on an engine rebuild, you have a great very fast engine, you get what you pays for in life.
fk the cost, if that matters just sell it.
All these cars sitting looking prestige yet owners barely drive them,, why so ten years later it might be worth what you paid for it,, you only drove it to the shops 3 times sort of thing, fk me your a long time dead, your here for a good time not a long time.
Enjoy the things for what they are good at rather than their value which they are not good at
But even that’s a lie, still worth more than most relevent vehicles that can live with a Tvr.
And not one has the sound track an RV8 TVR has,,, and its all natural and clever exhaust making. Harmonics are part of life’s great tapestry and something these old cars do with ease.
That and 0-60 in 4 and cruise at 100 all day and night and have space to load a tent and stove in the boot,,, The Chimaera is a gem end of.
One time my sons car went bang and employed me to help him decorate which meant all his stuff in my car, it’s amazing what you can fit in that boot space and on the odd occasion like going away to France for a week, a brillian aspect.
A good one is really hard to beat.
It’s a very valid question Daz asks and my answer is yes it can add value to your car but not so much financially.
If you do it all yourself and remove the anal need to replace every nut and washer, concentrate on what needs doing then you could do the lot for 2k but then you lose days or maybe weeks of your time assembling it. That alone probably saves 3k.
I’m turning green, gone off cars and the whole bulls
t that surrounds them but I still need a car,, looking around there is nothing that comes close to these cars. Nothing. Classic cars are all way out of date to be used in any meaningful way and rust like hell. It’s a constant worry and cost.
Our Chassis have huge tolerances, riggers can be anything from 10 mm to 30 mm out from side to side, luckily we have 4 wheel alignment so anomalies can be dialled out.
This all makes for a great simple car to work on.
It’s only by removing the body do you see just how basic and simple it all is.
Compared to cutting out floor pans and rotton sills or the dreaded suspension pick up points that plague most old cars Tvr are simple enough.
With a good covering on a properly prepared chassis TVR’s metalwork is nothing like the concern you’d have trying to use any other form of old car on the road.
If these cars are about pleasure then just having a nicely finished chassis don’t half look good
Which let’s be honest on the 3 occasions people drive the best Tvr around mainly going to a few shows that clean sexy chassis really does matter.
I’ve had that anal need to have everything looking like new but not anymore.
It’s a car I want to use and be used, it’s had investment to make it so, I’m very close to selling but I I simply can’t find anything that touches it unless it’s quite new,,, yuck mostly because of my ecu, it’s wiring and solid ability, tuned by a pro, my car does fast and slow in equal measure, rain and heat don’t effect it, it’s been mastered.
I’ve got myself in a position where I’ve spent the money to get the car I can do my stuff in until retirement but I’m still thinking of selling, not straight away, I’d like to give myself another year driving the car knowing there’s no longer any hidden scare stories, until you know the riggers are sound and I think most riggers were rotting by 5 years after production, it’s a constant nag.
Knowing your car is 100% when driving it is a big thrill, one I want to enjoy, mostly my Ecu has me in love with the car. If someone said here’s the money set off around the world like Ben did I’d be gone by 4am the next day.
There’s not many cars 20 years old I’d feel that confident about.
The real problem is tuning them to the max, great for bragging rights, s
te to drive and you lose all the abilities and class I’ve talked about. It has to be just as much fun at 40 mph as 140.
Mine starts with 6 inches of snow and ice all around it and a recorded -10* and instantly fired up after 3 days left like that,,, and like my old Volvo...
This is what makes it such a great car and one I couldn’t hope to own again, I’m never spending 20k to rebuild a car again in a hurry.
PS
My favourite owner is someone I’ve never met and only talked to twice I think.
He’s a mountain climber so as I worked at height for years already a hero to me but when I discovered he used his Tuscan all year round with massive mileage covered over many years I was inspired,, he’s probably had two engine builds for all I know but just to fly against the wind and be an individual who really gets the best out of his car and his life was what I was looking for and why I did what I’ve done. f
k all to do with resale value. I hate this poxy money thing,,, such bulls
t, Daz you’ve spent 5K on an engine rebuild, you have a great very fast engine, you get what you pays for in life. f
k the cost, if that matters just sell it.All these cars sitting looking prestige yet owners barely drive them,, why so ten years later it might be worth what you paid for it,, you only drove it to the shops 3 times sort of thing, f
k me your a long time dead, your here for a good time not a long time. Enjoy the things for what they are good at rather than their value which they are not good at
But even that’s a lie, still worth more than most relevent vehicles that can live with a Tvr.
And not one has the sound track an RV8 TVR has,,, and its all natural and clever exhaust making. Harmonics are part of life’s great tapestry and something these old cars do with ease.
That and 0-60 in 4 and cruise at 100 all day and night and have space to load a tent and stove in the boot,,, The Chimaera is a gem end of.
One time my sons car went bang and employed me to help him decorate which meant all his stuff in my car, it’s amazing what you can fit in that boot space and on the odd occasion like going away to France for a week, a brillian aspect.
A good one is really hard to beat.
Edited by Classic Chim on Monday 24th February 08:39
Edited by Classic Chim on Monday 24th February 09:31
All along my philosophy was simple if expensive.
10 or is it 11 years ago I remember looking for a car, a great car, something I could understand, not to expensive ? and truly great fun,,,
I was dismayed at car production and the loss of our car industry, Tvr tried to keep that very simple approach going which I admire so much.
Thought to myself, a car built here in Britian should and could be reliable surely,,,,, Tvr was the car I chose to prove it,,, and build it in my own image,
It was simply to prove all this doubt wrong so in my own way fly against the wind.
Times change as does environmental worries if you like it or not, luckily my car is about as clean as any car producing 300 hp can be and passes emissions with extremely low readings enough so for one not so knowledgeable mechanic into thinking it must be running lean, in fairness he was worried for me, he’s just used to RV8 running like diesels
stinky old things, mine doesn’t smell at all,, this is major stuff if you want a practical car.
So it’s all been sorted even down to a new Diff, the only part of my car that has not had some maintenance or large repairs is my gearbox which god forbit is fantastic to use. Slick, doesn’t get hot, new Diff, it’s totally there. It drives from 1000 revs with zero shunt, it’s now almost a new car, I want to replace my headlight reflectors now and I have a pair waiting, seats and carpets along the way sometime, I then have what would be like a new car,, if I just kept it 10 years with no major repairs it would be great value for money which is why I did it all along, just times change and things happen you have no power over.
Still a body off is a major buzz point in life so that’s got to be worth something more than money.
10 or is it 11 years ago I remember looking for a car, a great car, something I could understand, not to expensive ? and truly great fun,,,
I was dismayed at car production and the loss of our car industry, Tvr tried to keep that very simple approach going which I admire so much.
Thought to myself, a car built here in Britian should and could be reliable surely,,,,, Tvr was the car I chose to prove it,,, and build it in my own image,
It was simply to prove all this doubt wrong so in my own way fly against the wind.
Times change as does environmental worries if you like it or not, luckily my car is about as clean as any car producing 300 hp can be and passes emissions with extremely low readings enough so for one not so knowledgeable mechanic into thinking it must be running lean, in fairness he was worried for me, he’s just used to RV8 running like diesels
stinky old things, mine doesn’t smell at all,, this is major stuff if you want a practical car. So it’s all been sorted even down to a new Diff, the only part of my car that has not had some maintenance or large repairs is my gearbox which god forbit is fantastic to use. Slick, doesn’t get hot, new Diff, it’s totally there. It drives from 1000 revs with zero shunt, it’s now almost a new car, I want to replace my headlight reflectors now and I have a pair waiting, seats and carpets along the way sometime, I then have what would be like a new car,, if I just kept it 10 years with no major repairs it would be great value for money which is why I did it all along, just times change and things happen you have no power over.
Still a body off is a major buzz point in life so that’s got to be worth something more than money.
Dougal9887 said:
Sorry, just thought the odd picture might be of interest, I don't think we really need yet another chassis restoration thread.
The marks you see are wet spots as it proved impossible to get the chassis back bone dry. Not too worried as the posphating will deal with any rusting. According to Rustbusters, even after shotblasting rust will remain in the pores of the steel, hence the need for posphating in any case.
Dougal.
Yeah your right Dougal, I waffle more than most so this thread won’t make much sense in 6 months time anyway The marks you see are wet spots as it proved impossible to get the chassis back bone dry. Not too worried as the posphating will deal with any rusting. According to Rustbusters, even after shotblasting rust will remain in the pores of the steel, hence the need for posphating in any case.
Dougal.
Edited by Dougal9887 on Saturday 22 February 09:43
Back on point.
I’ve had a think about the chassis blasting and seeing old pictures from a chassis that inevitably has a few bits missed by even the most diligent of shot blasters and it’s long term effects of not getting rid of tiny rust spots, spoke to the painter last week and he mentioned phos-B as a suitable product so I ordered a litre.
I’m still going to scotch the shot blasted chassis before it’s sprayed on. Rustbusters say only one coat needs to be applied and then paint can be applied once dry to touch.
I’m hoping the litre of EM121 is enough to do 2 or 3 costs over the chassis and then see if I need more, see what the paint man says!
Be great to get a good finish so I’m happy to scotch it for hours if needs be
Alun, in case this is useful, I'm in the process of Phos - B treatment. Rust busters told me that it was necessary to follow up with Chlor-X salts remover to remove the residue.
I applied the Phos-B by brush and gave it 24 hrs. Then sprayed on Chlor-X and after 10 mins hosed that off whilst scrubbing vigorously with a nylon brush (3 hours hard labour). This in the main left a clean grey deposit free finish, but to my horror, quite large patches of flash rust.
I phoned Rustbusters for advice and to find out where I had gone wrong. Turned out not much wrong and that the flash rusted areas were just not completely treated and to repeat the process. The hosing and scrubbing ARE necessary to remove all salts, contamination and residues before painting.
In fact I think that my mistake was to apply the Phos-B sparingly with a stiff brush and thereby laying myself open to some incompletely treated areas.
So second time around, I have applied liberally with a soft brush.
I'm now hoping that, after a further 3 hours hard labour washing off, no further rust will appear.
I have photos if you wish to see them, but have held off, as requested, posting them here.
Dougal.
I applied the Phos-B by brush and gave it 24 hrs. Then sprayed on Chlor-X and after 10 mins hosed that off whilst scrubbing vigorously with a nylon brush (3 hours hard labour). This in the main left a clean grey deposit free finish, but to my horror, quite large patches of flash rust.
I phoned Rustbusters for advice and to find out where I had gone wrong. Turned out not much wrong and that the flash rusted areas were just not completely treated and to repeat the process. The hosing and scrubbing ARE necessary to remove all salts, contamination and residues before painting.
In fact I think that my mistake was to apply the Phos-B sparingly with a stiff brush and thereby laying myself open to some incompletely treated areas.
So second time around, I have applied liberally with a soft brush.
I'm now hoping that, after a further 3 hours hard labour washing off, no further rust will appear.
I have photos if you wish to see them, but have held off, as requested, posting them here.
Dougal.
Slightly confused here.
Rustbusters told me to prep the chassis by scotching it then spray on the Phos -B.Just one coat, wait to dry then straight to paint. No mention of Chlor-X
I’ll check with them again.
Even paints a pain in the arse.
Maybe it’s a different process if your brush painting Dougal?
Rustbusters told me to prep the chassis by scotching it then spray on the Phos -B.Just one coat, wait to dry then straight to paint. No mention of Chlor-X
I’ll check with them again.
Even paints a pain in the arse.
Maybe it’s a different process if your brush painting Dougal?
Edited by Classic Chim on Tuesday 25th February 05:17
Edited by Classic Chim on Tuesday 25th February 05:37
Classic Chim said:
I’m hoping the litre of EM121 is enough to do 2 or 3 costs over the chassis and then see if I need more, see what the paint man says!
Definitely get a second opinion from your painter Alun, based on what's been applied to my chassis your hope of getting two to three coats out of just one litre of epoxy mastic seems a bit optimistic to me mate. Ok so I went with brush application where it's expected the film thickness will be greater than a sprayed out finish, but I'd still say you'll need more than just one litre. To give you an idea I purchased what in the end amounted to 6 litres of Jotamastic 90 Aluminum when the hardener is included and the paint has been thinned at a maximum of 10%, I did know this would be way too much paint when I bought it by the way. However at £100 including VAT & postage for the paint, hardener, a bottle of tint, and 5 full litres of thinners which is also useful for spot cleanup work and brush cleaning it was the same as buying a 2.5 litre EM121 chassis pack from Rustbuster.
Basically per litre of mixed & thinned paint my Jotamastic 90 Aluminum worked out at half the price of EM121, however while Rustbuster's 2.5 litre chassis pack works out at twice the price per litre it still represents a good zero waste option for the home restorer. One 2.5 litre EM121 chassis pack would have definitely been enough to paint my chassis, wishbones and uprights with two coats so I've gifted whats left over of my Jotamastic to Alex, it only has a 24 month shelf life and effectively cost me no more money than the 2.5 litre EM121 chassis pack for double the quantity so I figured he can have whats left as Alex will make good use of it I'm sure.
From what amounts to a total mixed and thinned quantity of 6 litres of Jotamastic Alex is telling me there's enough left over to do at least one more chassis, possibly two at a push. So it does seem when brushed out just over 1 litre per coat (lets call it 1.25 litres) is about right for each coat of epoxy mastic when painting a Chimaera chassis, the 8 wishbones and the front/rear uprights by hand. In my case it all received two coats and these brush applied coats will definitely be of a greater film thickness than your sprayed out finish so roughly 2.5 litres has been used in total, but I still think it's fair to say you should plan to use 1 litre per coat Alun not the 1 litre for 2-3 coats you've quoted.
Rustbuster clearly named their 2.5 litre EM121 'Chassis Pack' correctly
Dougal9887 said:
I didn't mention the method of painting to Rustbusters but in fact I'm also spraying the paint.
I'll be interested to hear what you find out. The surface deposits I had after the Phos-B dried certainly wouldn't have given me any confidence for paint adhesion.
Dougal.
How long did the Phos-B take to dry and has the chassis been in a heated environment as in a purpose built paint booth or something that guarantees 30*c since it was shot blasted. I'll be interested to hear what you find out. The surface deposits I had after the Phos-B dried certainly wouldn't have given me any confidence for paint adhesion.
Dougal.
All this could make a difference for all I know.
My call to Rustbusters never mentioned anything other than 1 coat of Phos-B, soon as it’s dry paint it.
Seems straight forward enough so this washing it off I have no knowledge of.
My chassis sat in my mates garage for weeks and did’nt rust but there is a dehumidifier working 24/7.
ChimpOnGas said:
Definitely get a second opinion from your painter Alun, based on what's been applied to my chassis your hope of getting two to three coats out of just one litre of epoxy mastic seems a bit optimistic to me mate. Ok so I went with brush application where it's expected the film thickness will be greater than a sprayed out finish, but I'd still say you'll need more than just one litre.
To give you an idea I purchased what in the end amounted to 6 litres of Jotamastic 90 Aluminum when the hardener is included and the paint has been thinned at a maximum of 10%, I did know this would be way too much paint when I bought it by the way. However at £100 including VAT & postage for the paint, hardener, a bottle of tint, and 5 full litres of thinners which is also useful for spot cleanup work and brush cleaning it was the same as buying a 2.5 litre EM121 chassis pack from Rustbuster.
Basically per litre of mixed & thinned paint my Jotamastic 90 Aluminum worked out at half the price of EM121, however while Rustbuster's 2.5 litre chassis pack works out at twice the price per litre it still represents a good zero waste option for the home restorer. One 2.5 litre EM121 chassis pack would have definitely been enough to paint my chassis, wishbones and uprights with two coats so I've gifted whats left over of my Jotamastic to Alex, it only has a 24 month shelf life and effectively cost me no more money than the 2.5 litre EM121 chassis pack for double the quantity so I figured he can have whats left as Alex will make good use of it I'm sure.
From what amounts to a total mixed and thinned quantity of 6 litres of Jotamastic Alex is telling me there's enough left over to do at least one more chassis, possibly two at a push. So it does seem when brushed out just over 1 litre per coat (lets call it 1.25 litres) is about right for each coat of epoxy mastic when painting a Chimaera chassis, the 8 wishbones and the front/rear uprights by hand. In my case it all received two coats and these brush applied coats will definitely be of a greater film thickness than your sprayed out finish so roughly 2.5 litres has been used in total, but I still think it's fair to say you should plan to use 1 litre per coat Alun not the 1 litre for 2-3 coats you've quoted.
Rustbuster clearly named their 2.5 litre EM121 'Chassis Pack' correctly
You guys love spending my money To give you an idea I purchased what in the end amounted to 6 litres of Jotamastic 90 Aluminum when the hardener is included and the paint has been thinned at a maximum of 10%, I did know this would be way too much paint when I bought it by the way. However at £100 including VAT & postage for the paint, hardener, a bottle of tint, and 5 full litres of thinners which is also useful for spot cleanup work and brush cleaning it was the same as buying a 2.5 litre EM121 chassis pack from Rustbuster.
Basically per litre of mixed & thinned paint my Jotamastic 90 Aluminum worked out at half the price of EM121, however while Rustbuster's 2.5 litre chassis pack works out at twice the price per litre it still represents a good zero waste option for the home restorer. One 2.5 litre EM121 chassis pack would have definitely been enough to paint my chassis, wishbones and uprights with two coats so I've gifted whats left over of my Jotamastic to Alex, it only has a 24 month shelf life and effectively cost me no more money than the 2.5 litre EM121 chassis pack for double the quantity so I figured he can have whats left as Alex will make good use of it I'm sure.
From what amounts to a total mixed and thinned quantity of 6 litres of Jotamastic Alex is telling me there's enough left over to do at least one more chassis, possibly two at a push. So it does seem when brushed out just over 1 litre per coat (lets call it 1.25 litres) is about right for each coat of epoxy mastic when painting a Chimaera chassis, the 8 wishbones and the front/rear uprights by hand. In my case it all received two coats and these brush applied coats will definitely be of a greater film thickness than your sprayed out finish so roughly 2.5 litres has been used in total, but I still think it's fair to say you should plan to use 1 litre per coat Alun not the 1 litre for 2-3 coats you've quoted.
Rustbuster clearly named their 2.5 litre EM121 'Chassis Pack' correctly
I think my view is the painter knows best.
I’ve been suspicious if 1lt will be sufficient to be honest.
Firstly it’s mixed using 20% thinners so will stretch further but I ain’t going to all this and leaving it half covered so it’s a suck it and see approach.
I think I’ll be buying more which is ok by name.
Basically my chassis goes from blasters to a warm booth.
Apply Phos -B watch for salts coming through, wash off those areas with water, back in heated booth dries out very quickly then paint it.
You don’t need to use other products unless you get a lot of salts coming through which you shouldn’t if it’s clean, bare metal and kept dry and warm.
We are doing this on a different schedule Dougal so as I’ve planned all along my chassis is only bare metal for the minimum amount of time and direct from one place to another which will be a constantly heated room until paint is on the chassis.
I don’t need to leave it 24 hours for instance. My process is getting done in 1 day if it all goes to plan.
Rust forming overnight, that’s worrying, my chassis sat weeks and did not rust at all really. Maybe the process brings it out.
I have a chap who was trained by Jaguar as a paint tech as a young man and when I showed him the paint last week he mentioned the Phos-B so I think he knows how to work with the stuff.
I hope so
Apply Phos -B watch for salts coming through, wash off those areas with water, back in heated booth dries out very quickly then paint it.
You don’t need to use other products unless you get a lot of salts coming through which you shouldn’t if it’s clean, bare metal and kept dry and warm.
We are doing this on a different schedule Dougal so as I’ve planned all along my chassis is only bare metal for the minimum amount of time and direct from one place to another which will be a constantly heated room until paint is on the chassis.
I don’t need to leave it 24 hours for instance. My process is getting done in 1 day if it all goes to plan.
Rust forming overnight, that’s worrying, my chassis sat weeks and did not rust at all really. Maybe the process brings it out.
I have a chap who was trained by Jaguar as a paint tech as a young man and when I showed him the paint last week he mentioned the Phos-B so I think he knows how to work with the stuff.
I hope so
Edited by Classic Chim on Tuesday 25th February 09:39
Very philosophical! How different people approach car ownership is really interesting to watch, but a bit like business contractors: I think you either have to go right down one end on the 'easy come easy go' where it's all about money, remain emotionally detached, enjoy the ebb and flow of what your driving or working with at the time. Or you make the whole thing about the relationship between you and the car, your are in it for the long haul, and while it needs to work with the money available, it's about enjoying the process and doing the right thing.
Like you I am very much towards the latter, I'll own less different cars, I'm unlikely to make big money on it, but I'm also unlikely to make a big loss, and I enjoy knowing the car well, and looking after it nicely, if also trying to remember it's just a car and if it does get damaged or no longer meets my need it's ok to sell it!
Paint
Will perhaps be different on a tubular chassis I expect compared to a boat hull, and you can get more on with a brush than a roller.
However the film thickness on the epoxies is usually huge and often the only why to hit the manufacturers recommend application rate is with airless spray. Brushing and certainly rollering hits a finite thickness above which you can't get the paint any thicker, but with airless spray and the viscosity of the paint, you can just build it up to thickness and then it hardens off at that application rate.
Daniel
Like you I am very much towards the latter, I'll own less different cars, I'm unlikely to make big money on it, but I'm also unlikely to make a big loss, and I enjoy knowing the car well, and looking after it nicely, if also trying to remember it's just a car and if it does get damaged or no longer meets my need it's ok to sell it!
Paint
Will perhaps be different on a tubular chassis I expect compared to a boat hull, and you can get more on with a brush than a roller.
However the film thickness on the epoxies is usually huge and often the only why to hit the manufacturers recommend application rate is with airless spray. Brushing and certainly rollering hits a finite thickness above which you can't get the paint any thicker, but with airless spray and the viscosity of the paint, you can just build it up to thickness and then it hardens off at that application rate.
Daniel
Classic Chim said:
Basically my chassis goes from blasters to a warm booth.
Apply Phos -B watch for salts coming through, wash off those areas with water, back in heated booth dries out very quickly then paint it.
You don’t need to use other products unless you get a lot of salts coming through which you shouldn’t if it’s clean, bare metal and kept dry and warm.
We are doing this on a different schedule Dougal so as I’ve planned all along my chassis is only bare metal for the minimum amount of time and direct from one place to another which will be a constantly heated room until paint is on the chassis.
I don’t need to leave it 24 hours for instance. My process is getting done in 1 day if it all goes to plan.
Rust forming overnight, that’s worrying, my chassis sat weeks and did not rust at all really. Maybe the process brings it out.
I have a chap who was trained by Jaguar as a paint tech as a young man and when I showed him the paint last week he mentioned the Phos-B so I think he knows how to work with the stuff.
I hope so
After washing off the rust occurred immediately as it dried not overnight, - flash rusting.Apply Phos -B watch for salts coming through, wash off those areas with water, back in heated booth dries out very quickly then paint it.
You don’t need to use other products unless you get a lot of salts coming through which you shouldn’t if it’s clean, bare metal and kept dry and warm.
We are doing this on a different schedule Dougal so as I’ve planned all along my chassis is only bare metal for the minimum amount of time and direct from one place to another which will be a constantly heated room until paint is on the chassis.
I don’t need to leave it 24 hours for instance. My process is getting done in 1 day if it all goes to plan.
Rust forming overnight, that’s worrying, my chassis sat weeks and did not rust at all really. Maybe the process brings it out.
I have a chap who was trained by Jaguar as a paint tech as a young man and when I showed him the paint last week he mentioned the Phos-B so I think he knows how to work with the stuff.
I hope so
Edited by Classic Chim on Tuesday 25th February 09:39
Here's a picture of the salts which, from my experience, you will need to wash off
Hopefully after washing this time, it will be completely treated and no rusting will occur.
Dougal.
Dougal9887 said:
After washing off the rust occurred immediately as it dried not overnight, - flash rusting.
Here's a picture of the salts which, from my experience, you will need to wash off
Hopefully after washing this time, it will be completely treated and no rusting will occur.
Dougal.
If it helps anybody we use international paints at work. It is a petrochemical site and we also shot -blast pipework and plant in situ.Here's a picture of the salts which, from my experience, you will need to wash off
Hopefully after washing this time, it will be completely treated and no rusting will occur.
Dougal.
Our industrial painter of 40 years plus experience has a saying that the international 1st prime coat,[ in our case Inter-therm 256
or Inter-therm 356], "likes a bit of ginger." This is a reference to the fact that the paint needs a surface to attach to.
In the ideal world straight after blasting, is the best time to paint.
This, on a live working site is not always possible, but even after exposure to some inclement weather, and hence some surface
rust, this paint will still adhere like sh
t to a blanket.In summary, a fresh blasted dry surface is the ultimate for international paints, but a recent blasted surface, even with some rust
caused by moisture, is still a good surface for these 2 pack paints.
You have to view them as a combination of 2 chemicals applied like a paint, rather than just calling it paint.
Hope this helps.
My understanding is that a freshly shot/grit blasted surface is a very good substrate for paint to stick to, most two-pack paint systems offer a 'blast primer' a low-viscosity low-build first coat. But a lot of the epoxy-ali primbers are also designed for mechanically or even hand prep.
In a commercial/production environment then a phosphate wash, and rinse, is fairly common (and sometimes an acid etch rather than shot blast) but obviously you have to draw the line someone where, and if not within a dedicated facility chemical washes and rinsed can be hard to achieve.
On my car (westfield) for body-on repaint, I have been using the POR-15 system, including their cleaning pre-wash and 'metal ready' etch+phosphate and its been interesting, with some good results, but also significant faff, and as soon as access was a bit limit the results become very mixed. I think if I was having my time again I would use an ali-epoxy.
A lightly rusted or 'gingered' surface is another good way of getting a good key as I understand it, and not something to be afraid of as such, as long as its clean and free from grease and I guess salts. Although you do don't introduce any salts, and or rinse them all off...
No experience of the chlor-x, frosts site and others promote it well, but its new to me, however that might just be I haven't seen it, and my boat experience is all fresh-water.
Daniel
In a commercial/production environment then a phosphate wash, and rinse, is fairly common (and sometimes an acid etch rather than shot blast) but obviously you have to draw the line someone where, and if not within a dedicated facility chemical washes and rinsed can be hard to achieve.
On my car (westfield) for body-on repaint, I have been using the POR-15 system, including their cleaning pre-wash and 'metal ready' etch+phosphate and its been interesting, with some good results, but also significant faff, and as soon as access was a bit limit the results become very mixed. I think if I was having my time again I would use an ali-epoxy.
A lightly rusted or 'gingered' surface is another good way of getting a good key as I understand it, and not something to be afraid of as such, as long as its clean and free from grease and I guess salts. Although you do don't introduce any salts, and or rinse them all off...
No experience of the chlor-x, frosts site and others promote it well, but its new to me, however that might just be I haven't seen it, and my boat experience is all fresh-water.
Daniel
I have found that the salts deposits left after the Phos-B dried can be rubbed off with a scotchbrite pad leaving a nice dull grey phosphated finish. Obviously a fine dusting of the salts will remain on the surface. The Rustbusters site makes reference to spraying on Chlor-X and wiping it off, so this may be the way forward to avoid hosing again.
Dougal.
Dougal.
Dougal9887 said:
I have found that the salts deposits left after the Phos-B dried can be rubbed off with a scotchbrite pad leaving a nice dull grey phosphated finish. Obviously a fine dusting of the salts will remain on the surface. The Rustbusters site makes reference to spraying on Chlor-X and wiping it off, so this may be the way forward to avoid hosing again.
Dougal.
Yes, having made another call to a Rustbusters I’m hoping we can spray on Chlor-X Dougal.
when dry rub any salts away with scotchbrite, lightly scotch chassis then use clean damp rags to wash off, heat dry then first coat of paint. If no salts appear you can paint without washing off but for the time it takes to run round with a serious of clean damp rags I will do this. Touch wood it all goes to plan.
Oh and thanks for the posts above re paint chaps. I hope others find it useful aswell as myself
Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 26th February 08:19
Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 26th February 08:22
One shot blasted chassis.
I can see why it’s scotched after blasting, you still get plenty of shot dust left, so scotching helps key the metal and cleans off this dust.
It’s now in a heated booth being prepped for paint.
Painter would prefer to use an etch primer so as he’s doing it I’m happy for him to carry on.
I can see why it’s scotched after blasting, you still get plenty of shot dust left, so scotching helps key the metal and cleans off this dust.
It’s now in a heated booth being prepped for paint.
Painter would prefer to use an etch primer so as he’s doing it I’m happy for him to carry on.
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