Another body off thread.
Discussion
2OOM said:
That looks excellent Alun ... You'll be trying to remember how it goes back together in no time .. I'm really enjoying this thread .. 
Hi mate, good to here from you. Mate I’ve totally forgotten and I’m in a state of panic
Dave’s Chassis thread with wishbones and stuff back on, totally freaks me out thinking bugger me I’ve got to remember where all these bolts go.
I can’t wait to get assembling it but I also want to do it calmly and so it’s done when it’s done.
One step at a time as it’s a memory I want to remember fondly. A few weeks ago I was very motivated to get it done ASAP but why,,, It will be better this way.
I’m determined to do it well and that’s all that matters.
So my 2000 year late powdercoat chassis is in very good Nick overall. So much for these late chassis being rotten
Hi mate, hmm not had the bill yet but I can tell you the chassis took many hrs work to get looking that clean. Just the amount of work involved, I think nearly 7 hours as it needs to be turned over several times and I had over 20 other parts to be done at the same time.
I specifically mentioned a good job not a fast job. Seems to me I save so much compared with doing this job any other way a few extra pennies here is well worth it for the finish I’m after. Makes prepping it for paint a lot easier, that takes hours in itself.
I’ll let you know or remind me if I forget to pm you Eddy.
The guy does Powdercoating and mentioned how hard the TVR coat was to remove so it can’t be that bad a stuff. Brittle probably.
I specifically mentioned a good job not a fast job. Seems to me I save so much compared with doing this job any other way a few extra pennies here is well worth it for the finish I’m after. Makes prepping it for paint a lot easier, that takes hours in itself.
I’ll let you know or remind me if I forget to pm you Eddy.
The guy does Powdercoating and mentioned how hard the TVR coat was to remove so it can’t be that bad a stuff. Brittle probably.
Edited by Classic Chim on Wednesday 26th February 21:35
ChimpOnGas said:
Looking amazing Alun 
Long way to go yet Dave. Painter mentioned striking it first so I’m well chuffed he knows his stuff. So many edges on a Tiv chassis it’s really important to do if spraying I feel so a relief he was well aware it would need to be done.
Again I don’t or can’t afford to waste money these days but he can take as long as he likes as it’s the whole point of the exercise.
It’s great though isn’t it, knowing your riggers are new and covered well.
Paint would stick to boat anchors for a decade, we should be good until retirement age
Classic Chim said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Looking amazing Alun
Long way to go yet Dave. Painter mentioned striking it first so I’m well chuffed he knows his stuff. So many edges on a Tiv chassis it’s really important to do if spraying I feel so a relief he was well aware it would need to be done.
Again I don’t or can’t afford to waste money these days but he can take as long as he likes as it’s the whole point of the exercise.
It’s great though isn’t it, knowing your riggers are new and covered well.
Paint would stick to boat anchors for a decade, we should be good until retirement age
To keep control of costs I've gone with a body off job where the chassis is then intensively cleaned and de-greased, localised surface corrosion is mechanically de-rusted and two coats of Jutamastic 90 Aluminum applied thoroughly by brush. Ironically no one but my MoT tester and I will ever see my restored chassis once the body is back on which helped me decide the brush finish would be perfectly acceptable, my big thing is best in class durability and longevity at a reasonable cost.
While the suspension was stripped off the chassis to allow the wishbones to be de-rusted and painted properly the drivetrain was left in place as removing it all is where the work starts to become very costly and time consuming. Jotun describe their Jotamastic 90 paint as a surface tolerant, abrasion resistance, high solids, high build product, a premium repair, problem solving, maintenance coating suitable for interior and exterior surfaces with excellent salt water resistance. They go on to say the product is ideal for application to structural steel found in marine and offshore environments where it's used extensively, it's clearly specifically designed for application in areas which are exposed to adverse atmospheric conditions.
Jotamastic 90 is recommended for offshore environments including splash zones, refineries, power plants, bridges, buildings, mining equipment and general structural steel. Being designed for ongoing maintenance of previously painted structures it's intended to be applied in harsh, cold and wet environments, if you're on deck painting a ship while out at sea brush application is the only practical application method, these environments make Alex's workshop seem like your front room. This all makes Jotamastic 90 ideal for the way Alex approaches his cost effective body off chassis restoration process, I then went one step further by going with the Aluminium version of this paint which offers an element of galvanic corrosion protection, Jotun suggests upgrading to the Aluminum version of Jotamastic 90 where the paint is to be applied to areas of a ship hull or oil rig structure that do service below the water line.
There's no question removing everything from the chassis and having it shot blasted is the most comprehensive approach, spraying the bare chassis in a proper heated paint booth is also unquestionably going to give a far nicer finish than applying the paint by brush, by design epoxy mastic is thick old stuff so it's never going to self level like a polyurethane. Without any doubt your spray painted chassis is going to look absolutely stunning, it's just a shame only you and your MoT tester will ever see it once the body is back on.
Keep the photos coming Alun, I can't wait to see the results of sprayed out epoxy mastic, my bet is it'll be just as beautifully smooth as a powder coat job with the same bulletproof protection of my brush applied Jotamastic 90, the best of both worlds if you like and as its being applied over a shot blasted chassis in a proper temp controlled paint booth I'd say it'll last the longest of the lot. I give my chassis at least 30 years before it needs inspecting and yours will do service for 50 years, brushed or sprayed epoxy mastic is definitely the right choice so as you say we can both expect our chassis' to last well into and beyond our retirement
Can't fault that.
Jotamastic 90: A two component polyamine cured epoxy mastic coating, surface tolerant, abrasion resistance, high solids, high build product, a premium repair and maintenance coating suitable for interior and exterior surfaces, tintable, with excellent salt water resistance. Provides long lasting protection in environments with high corrosivity. Specially designed for areas where optimum surface preparation is not possible or desired. Can be used as primer, mid coat, finish coat or as single coat system
https://www.jotun.com/Datasheets/Download?url=%2FT...16560__Jotamastic+90__EukGB.pdf
Daniel
Jotamastic 90: A two component polyamine cured epoxy mastic coating, surface tolerant, abrasion resistance, high solids, high build product, a premium repair and maintenance coating suitable for interior and exterior surfaces, tintable, with excellent salt water resistance. Provides long lasting protection in environments with high corrosivity. Specially designed for areas where optimum surface preparation is not possible or desired. Can be used as primer, mid coat, finish coat or as single coat system
https://www.jotun.com/Datasheets/Download?url=%2FT...16560__Jotamastic+90__EukGB.pdf
Daniel
The important bit for me is this bit....
'Specially designed for areas where optimum surface preparation is not possible or desired'
Quite clearly out in the field when maintaining existing structures and in marine craft, its not always possible to blast clean a steel surface which is why Jotamastic 90 is designed to be applied over a mechanically de-rusted and treated substrate.
For iron oxide to form you need two things, oxygen and water, if you can remove one or the other and preferably both even if a certain level of existing corrosion remains it can be significantly slowed, even stopped. As noted by others in this post these industrial marine grade epoxy mastic paints don't always need to be applied over a completely rust free surface.
Out in the real world where you've got to keep hard working steel equipment, vehicles, and structures operational or risk losing profitability, you need to maintain them without taking them out of service and in these harsh working environment you need a paint system that isn't super fussy about prep. I did some testing of POR15 back in the early 1990s for Frost, we were restoring a Mk3 Zephyr convertible for Practical Classics and Car Restorer magazine and Frost were sponsoring the project, POR15 moisture curing paint was new to the UK market at the time and Frost didn't even have it listed in their catalogue when I first got hold of it.
I must have been one of the first people in the UK to try POR15 and what I found was while you could get amazing results from it the prep and surface itself had to be just so, get your prep wrong or apply it to a surface that was insufficiently prepped or worse still too smooth and it would fail in no time. Basically you needed to have all the stars and the moon aligned all at the right time to get good results from it, it really is super fussy paint and so becomes a royal PITA to work with.
Epoxy mastic is the complete opposite, yes it needs mixing and to the correct ratio which can be a faff and you have to work giving respect to the pot life, its also a temperature critical paint although the Jotun winter grade allows the cure to take place at much lower temps. But get all this right which isn't that hard and you can literally paint it over anything that's been properly de-greased, two component epoxy paint systems are just easier to get better results with so in the end we decided POR15 was way more trouble than it's worth, our painter would always say.....
"if it smells bad and makes you puke, that's the good stuff".
.... 
When a properly mixed and a 2k paint system is fully cured it becomes an incredibly tough coating, so strong in fact it provides additional structural strength to whatever you're applying it to. To give people an idea of just how strong 2k paints can be I've seen car panels painted in it that have completely corroded from behind, while the original steel had totally rotted away the 2k paint system remained intact and was actually holding the panel together. Epoxy mastic just takes this incredible performance one step further by adding plasticiser for greater flexibility and resistance to chipping, hard paints are all well and good but a paint that gives on impact and has the ability to self heal will give far longer lasting results.
'Specially designed for areas where optimum surface preparation is not possible or desired'
Quite clearly out in the field when maintaining existing structures and in marine craft, its not always possible to blast clean a steel surface which is why Jotamastic 90 is designed to be applied over a mechanically de-rusted and treated substrate.
For iron oxide to form you need two things, oxygen and water, if you can remove one or the other and preferably both even if a certain level of existing corrosion remains it can be significantly slowed, even stopped. As noted by others in this post these industrial marine grade epoxy mastic paints don't always need to be applied over a completely rust free surface.
Out in the real world where you've got to keep hard working steel equipment, vehicles, and structures operational or risk losing profitability, you need to maintain them without taking them out of service and in these harsh working environment you need a paint system that isn't super fussy about prep. I did some testing of POR15 back in the early 1990s for Frost, we were restoring a Mk3 Zephyr convertible for Practical Classics and Car Restorer magazine and Frost were sponsoring the project, POR15 moisture curing paint was new to the UK market at the time and Frost didn't even have it listed in their catalogue when I first got hold of it.
I must have been one of the first people in the UK to try POR15 and what I found was while you could get amazing results from it the prep and surface itself had to be just so, get your prep wrong or apply it to a surface that was insufficiently prepped or worse still too smooth and it would fail in no time. Basically you needed to have all the stars and the moon aligned all at the right time to get good results from it, it really is super fussy paint and so becomes a royal PITA to work with.
Epoxy mastic is the complete opposite, yes it needs mixing and to the correct ratio which can be a faff and you have to work giving respect to the pot life, its also a temperature critical paint although the Jotun winter grade allows the cure to take place at much lower temps. But get all this right which isn't that hard and you can literally paint it over anything that's been properly de-greased, two component epoxy paint systems are just easier to get better results with so in the end we decided POR15 was way more trouble than it's worth, our painter would always say.....
"if it smells bad and makes you puke, that's the good stuff".
.... When a properly mixed and a 2k paint system is fully cured it becomes an incredibly tough coating, so strong in fact it provides additional structural strength to whatever you're applying it to. To give people an idea of just how strong 2k paints can be I've seen car panels painted in it that have completely corroded from behind, while the original steel had totally rotted away the 2k paint system remained intact and was actually holding the panel together. Epoxy mastic just takes this incredible performance one step further by adding plasticiser for greater flexibility and resistance to chipping, hard paints are all well and good but a paint that gives on impact and has the ability to self heal will give far longer lasting results.
To be honest since seeing how yours has gone on I’m sort of wishing I was hand painting it now.
Firstly I could do that and secondly it does’nt need as many coats as spraying. I think the finish will be similar because of how the paint cures.
Be very easy to get a run spraying it so have to be fairly light and careful coats I’d have thought. Build it up and let It cure for a good week before handling it to much.
More thinners spraying so thinner coats but this new fangled paint is something I can’t wait to see in action.
Painter says it will look great so I hope he has a good day tomorrow.
Firstly I could do that and secondly it does’nt need as many coats as spraying. I think the finish will be similar because of how the paint cures.
Be very easy to get a run spraying it so have to be fairly light and careful coats I’d have thought. Build it up and let It cure for a good week before handling it to much.
More thinners spraying so thinner coats but this new fangled paint is something I can’t wait to see in action.
Painter says it will look great so I hope he has a good day tomorrow.
Classic Chim said:
To be honest since seeing how yours has gone on I’m sort of wishing I was hand painting it now.
Firstly I could do that and secondly it does’nt need as many coats as spraying. I think the finish will be similar because of how the paint cures.
Be very easy to get a run spraying it so have to be fairly light and careful coats I’d have thought. Build it up and let It cure for a good week before handling it to much.
More thinners spraying so thinner coats but this new fangled paint is something I can’t wait to see in action.
Painter says it will look great so I hope he has a good day tomorrow.
Its going to look fantastic Alun, and it'll be super durable too, brush painting is for when you don't have a paint booth.Firstly I could do that and secondly it does’nt need as many coats as spraying. I think the finish will be similar because of how the paint cures.
Be very easy to get a run spraying it so have to be fairly light and careful coats I’d have thought. Build it up and let It cure for a good week before handling it to much.
More thinners spraying so thinner coats but this new fangled paint is something I can’t wait to see in action.
Painter says it will look great so I hope he has a good day tomorrow.
A proper heated paint booth is a game changer if you're spraying, in fact I'd say it's essential so you're doing it right mate.
ChimpOnGas said:
Its going to look fantastic Alun, and it'll be super durable too, brush painting is for when you don't have a paint booth.
A proper heated paint booth is a game changer if you're spraying, in fact I'd say it's essential so you're doing it right mate.
Yeah, the facilities, I’ll be forever grateful I can tell you. A proper heated paint booth is a game changer if you're spraying, in fact I'd say it's essential so you're doing it right mate.
Somethings are worth so much more than just money.
No free lunches in my book. I’ll pay for it but it’s more the opportunity this has afforded me.
I’ve painted my car outside in damp winters conditions,, looked terrible but did the job for the time it was needed so with the booth hand painting would work well, any garage heated with this paint curing would work I think.
As has been mentioned before these paints are designed to work in the field so to speak. Highly developed with a mind to the difficulties of on site working conditions. I think we’re alright
With any epoxy, temperature is key to achieve the correct reaction and cure, what do Rustbuster say about the correct aplication temp for EM121?
I went with Jotun's winter grade for this reason, the concern was Alex's workshop may not reach the minimum 10c the regular grade needs to cure correctly. The winter grade can be applied down to 0c but it's also important to know the temp of the chassis itself, while the air temp may be high enough the chassis can take the applied paint down by quite a few degrees.
I was taught if applying two pack paints in lower temps it helps to a least make up your mix in a warmer environment to get the reaction started, heating what your painting helps a lot too. However the winter grade from Jotun removes all that faff, if you're painting your fishing trawler out in the open during the winter you need something that just works.
Of course a heated paint booth like you've got acces to literally solves everything.
I went with Jotun's winter grade for this reason, the concern was Alex's workshop may not reach the minimum 10c the regular grade needs to cure correctly. The winter grade can be applied down to 0c but it's also important to know the temp of the chassis itself, while the air temp may be high enough the chassis can take the applied paint down by quite a few degrees.
I was taught if applying two pack paints in lower temps it helps to a least make up your mix in a warmer environment to get the reaction started, heating what your painting helps a lot too. However the winter grade from Jotun removes all that faff, if you're painting your fishing trawler out in the open during the winter you need something that just works.
Of course a heated paint booth like you've got acces to literally solves everything.
In view of the last sentence on the last post and now I’ve had a good look and painter could’nt paint it yesterday anyway I’m adding a small amount of filler to smooth out some of the roughness from old corrosion and where new tubes join etc.
After much deliberation we are going to use an etch primer and as you can see here I’ve rattle canned some on to see just what I’ve got.
Basically another day prepping it should see it looking really good when paints applied.
Garage is left at 18* overnight ( just for me ) painter says it’s dry air so no problem. Prepping it that bit more is worth it, and I agree.
After much deliberation we are going to use an etch primer and as you can see here I’ve rattle canned some on to see just what I’ve got.
Basically another day prepping it should see it looking really good when paints applied.
Garage is left at 18* overnight ( just for me )
painter says it’s dry air so no problem. Prepping it that bit more is worth it, and I agree. Edited by Classic Chim on Saturday 29th February 15:23
Edited by Classic Chim on Saturday 29th February 15:53
You replace bushes when you need too and that one was replaced by Powers a few years ago.
All my front W bones were new not long ago and rears are in fine condition so no it’s pointless.
All my wishbones have come through sand blasting twice now and I’m not convinced new metalastic bushes would actually have a better quality rubber than what’s already being used or even as good. My rear wishbones were in great condition considering they are 20 years old. Remarkable considering.
A bit pitted but not thinned, really chuffed about that.
All my front W bones were new not long ago and rears are in fine condition so no it’s pointless.
All my wishbones have come through sand blasting twice now and I’m not convinced new metalastic bushes would actually have a better quality rubber than what’s already being used or even as good. My rear wishbones were in great condition considering they are 20 years old. Remarkable considering.
A bit pitted but not thinned, really chuffed about that.
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