Which Chim to buy

[Classic Chim]

rockits said:

It is lively indeed but not had much of a chance to drive it much yet as bought it after the summer had finished. It had mismatched tyres on the rear on the drive home after previous owner had a puncture which which interesting and scary. Resolved now.

Need to decide if it is a keeper as it is on original CUX ignition. If I keep it I may replace the CUX with a newer/better system.

My other option is to sell this one and buy Mac's old car but really not sure what to do. Need to drive this red 500 a bit really as it is a lovely example.

New ecu or Mac’s car you’re not going far wrong and an interesting dilemma. Drive Macs car first.
His has everything and more.
You have a special car there but I suspect your not falling for red. Not many have a car like yours, it’s a very nice thing if you like red
I do funnily enough but there you go.

[getholdofme]

Cheers for the detailed reply ChimpOnGas, really helpful. I know roughly when the MkII improvements started, but when did the MkIII improvements start coming in?

[TR4man]

getholdofme said:

Cheers for the detailed reply ChimpOnGas, really helpful. I know roughly when the MkII improvements started, but when did the MkIII improvements start coming in?

Mine was registered on 12/07/2001 and was one of the first I think.

[rockits]

Classic Chim said:

New ecu or Mac’s car you’re not going far wrong and an interesting dilemma. Drive Macs car first.
His has everything and more.
You have a special car there but I suspect your not falling for red. Not many have a car like yours, it’s a very nice thing if you like red
I do funnily enough but there you go.

Thanks Alun. I think Mac's car will be 7k on top of the ballpark value of my current 500 ish. I guess an ECU change would be 2k? So I'm narrowing that gap but still a fair way off.

Yes, the red car is a pretty special and we'll sorted car with a lovely new interior but as you say....it is red. That was the one reason I nearly didn't buy it as it was red and I'm not a fan especially of Formula Red. If it was Apple Candy Red or something I could live with that. Some have ready said they like it tough so I guess it depends if you like red.

I can't fault the interior in this red one and suspect it will better than Mac's old car.ehoch was pretty stock. I could live with it though 😉

[Classic Chim]

If you think your coming on here slagging Mac’s interior think again.

Are you ever happy bud. Why don’t you buy one and turn it into something special like Mac did. you’ll find out what he spent then? Interior is pennies in comparison.

[rockits]

Classic Chim said:

If you think your coming on here slagging Mac’s interior think again.

Are you ever happy bud. Why don’t you buy one and turn it into something special like Mac did. you’ll find out what he spent then? Interior is pennies in comparison.

Certainly not slagging off Mac's interior. Far from it. I can only imagine how much time and money must have gone into it.

I would love to do something special but just don't have the time available it would need. One day maybe I will.

No never happy but working with my shrink to help overcome and improve that!!

Just trying to ascertain whether I should start to sink some time and money into the red one although it won't need much. An ECU upgrade is the obvious thing. How much is that likely to be supplied, fitted and rolling road tuned? Circa £2k?

The red car owes me £18k at the moment so it would need another £7k to get to Mac's old car if I got £18k for the red one.

Edited by rockits on Sunday 19th January 20:47

[Classic Chim]

rockits said:

Certainly not slagging off Mac's interior. Far from it. I can only imagine how much time and money must have gone into it.

I would love to do something special but just don't have the time available it would need. One day maybe I will.

No never happy but working with my shrink to help overcome and improve that ??

Just trying to ascertain whether I should start to sink some time and money into the red one although it won't need much. An ECU upgrade is the obvious thing. How much is that likely to be supplied, fitted and rolling road tuned? Circa £2k?

The red car owes me £18k at the moment so it would need another £7k to get to Mac's old car if I got £18k for the red one.

18...+7 it would need to be another 15 to get anywhere near Macs car I believe. It cost a fortune but perfectionists are not usually good accountants. resale price has nothing to do with what it cost as I’m sure you know.

Seems like the days of boys tuning these cars to such a high spec must be coming to an end. 10 years ago boys did this for fun, lower values make Mac’s car something your not likely to see again in a hurry.

Edited by Classic Chim on Sunday 19th January 19:49

[rockits]

I think your are right that we will see less extreme modded cars. We will still of course see plenty of mods but maybe less extreme. I would expect there to still be the odd extreme build as if you spent 40-50k what could you buy as equivalent that gave the same. It could still make sense to some. I think Nick is having a car built with Ian @ Sportmotive to achieve that very same thing.

What is a little frustrating for me is I can buy Mac's old car for the same price I originally agreed with the dealer when the deal fell through. However I bought the red 500 as the next best available option after Mac's had gone. If I hadn't had bought the red 500 I would be in Mac's old car now.

I guess things happen for a reason. If someone wants to offer me £18k for the Red 500 I would sell it and buy Mac's.

[rockits]

Seems like my red 500 has had circa £20k spent in 2-3 years including the refurb and is worth the same if not less than that.

I guess many out there will be similar.

[rockits]

Sorry OP....neglecting the actual thread discussion! Nothing like a bit of thread drift.

My take has changed a bit as when I started looking a picked out a MK2 450 as the ideal car for me. That was after doing a fair bit of web/paper research.

After my first being a 1993 Mk1 400 then the 2nd a 1998 Mk2 400 with the current a 1995 Mk1 500 I have changed. For me now the MK2 450 is still an ideal but...and as I have proved....I would still buy any Mk1, Mk2 or Mk3 and either 400, 450 or 500. They all seem to drive so different and the condition also moniesies spent varies massively. I would go for the best example you can find for your budget.

I am not sure I would worry so much about resale as I think any car like this is not quick or easy to sell in the current.market/climate. That being said obviously a poor example or high miler or bad colour will be harder to shift compared to a good example or lower miler or popular colour.

As others have said. Get to see and drive a few and get to some meets.

[Classic Chim]

rockits said:

Seems like my red 500 has had circa £20k spent in 2-3 years including the refurb and is worth the same if not less than that.

I guess many out there will be similar.

Small change in the Tvr world

Why would it be less. Good dealers like Amore sell top end cars for that money and more all the time or so I thought. They offer a good service and know these cars well. At this end of the market two things are apparent
1 it shouldn’t breakdown.
2 if it does dealers like Amore try and sort it out from what I’ve heard. (Don’t take my word for it)
Some people might just like that sort of buy where everything is top end and ready to tour Europe.
Sounds mad but Tvr blokes do it every year as once sorted these cars can go on forever. empty Mountain roads and a Tvr,,, proper thrilling driving experience for sure.

O/p left ages ago

If he has more questions just ask

[getholdofme]

Yup, wasn't following the thread diversion too well. Thanks for bringing it back to topic. I'll see what I can find out there.

[ChimpOnGas]

TR4man said:

getholdofme said:

Cheers for the detailed reply ChimpOnGas, really helpful. I know roughly when the MkII improvements started, but when did the MkIII improvements start coming in?

Mine was registered on 12/07/2001 and was one of the first I think.

Rare cars those Mk3s and the best of the breed for sure, but in short supply as productiion of the new exciting and altogether more modern looking Tuscan had already started in 1999. Demand for the old Chimaera was very much on the wain and by 2002 the Tamora had appreard putting the final nail in the Chimaera's coffin.

The irony is those who chose a Speed Six engined model over the Mk3 Chimaera would soon live to regret that decission, sure they bought a more modern TVR but as we all know now it just wasnt developed properly. Launched in 1993 the Chimaera which was really just a Griffith in a different set of cloths was way more reliable in its very first year of production than the Tuscan was even after three years of development.

Now take the Chimaera that was more reliable straight out of the box in year one and constantly develop it over the next 8 years and what you end up with is the Mk3. Clearly what the 2001 TVR buyer should have purchased was by far the most developed TVR ever, however what he actuually did was buy one of the least developed TVRs ever complete with its chocolate engine.

Hidsight is a wonderfull thing

[rockits]

Classic Chim said:

Small change in the Tvr world

Why would it be less. Good dealers like Amore sell top end cars for that money and more all the time or so I thought.

I take your point and you may be right. Ok, I'll take £20k then

[Classic Chim]

ChimpOnGas said:

TR4man said:

getholdofme said:

Cheers for the detailed reply ChimpOnGas, really helpful. I know roughly when the MkII improvements started, but when did the MkIII improvements start coming in?

Mine was registered on 12/07/2001 and was one of the first I think.

Rare cars those Mk3s and the best of the breed for sure, but in short supply as productiion of the new exciting and altogether more modern looking Tuscan had already started in 1999. Demand for the old Chimaera was very much on the wain and by 2002 the Tamora had appreard putting the final nail in the Chimaera's coffin.

The irony is those who chose a Speed Six engined model over the Mk3 Chimaera would soon live to regret that decission, sure they bought a more modern TVR but as we all know now it just wasnt developed properly. Launched in 1993 the Chimaera which was really just a Griffith in a different set of cloths was way more reliable in its very first year of production than the Tuscan was even after three years of development.

Now take the Chimaera that was more reliable straight out of the box in year one and constantly develop it over the next 8 years and what you end up with is the Mk3. Clearly what the 2001 TVR buyer should have purchased was by far the most developed TVR ever, however what he actuually did was buy one of the least developed TVRs ever complete with its chocolate engine.

Hidsight is a wonderfull thing

Interesting, I was told my car could have had enclosed headlights as it’s registered 30/3/2000 and is effectively a Mk 3 but that can’t be correct then.
Mine has the earlier gearbox linkage I think, it has plastic bushes which on mine with 75,000 miles on the clock are not actually worn at all. Has anyone got a pic of the later arrangement although my linkage works great really.
So mines more a crossover car and Mk2 mostly. They tried to stop Chimeara production by 2000 but still made over 300 that year I seem to remember, production stopped by 2003, I’m sure they made over 100 in 2003 so still popular with the buyers.

It’s a real shame the Griff and Chimaera stopped being made.
The last RR engines 450’s were def the best base to work with and have really nice heads even as standard, blocks have extra webbing and cross bolted as standard too.
Coscast blocks look fantastic, a deal for those with decent ECU would have changed the game. All these years later there’s plenty of Chims and Griffs with the old RV 8 engine embarrassing the later models with power and especially torque outputs so those Coscast blocks must have been exactly what they needed for all later models, I’ve never heard of these Coscast blocks before until seeing a post on Facebook.
Anyone know what power they made. I’ll look it up but they looked like a solution but bound to have been to expensive for Tvr to use. What did the speed 6 cost! It was Wheelers desire to not rely on customer engines, trouble was his customers couldn’t rely on his, those engines went in from 2000-2005 and company went bust.
The best selling car had long gone. 5000 + Chims sold, that’s a lot of hand built cars. Tvr succeeded in the Griff and Chimaera design and offered good reliability from a known engine.
I bet most Chims out there are still on the original engine with original parts other than maybe a cam change at some point.
how many production cars from that era are still road worthy.

[Classic Chim]

rockits said:

I take your point and you may be right. Ok, I'll take £20k then

Excellent, I’ll have it

The thing is it’s rare to find one with everything bang on, if you have a car that ticks many boxes it’s a very different beast from a tired one that needs every part of the car restored in reality and so yours is indeed rare.
Your car is someone’s dream machine.
It’s powerful I can see that

So in essence the theme of this thread seems to be buy a late car as they were the best, trouble with that idea is many early cars are owned by committed owners, these cars are just as good.
Age engine size, none of that matters to me, condition, feel of the car and history of regular use would be more my concern.

[Zener]

Coscast is just a better quality squarer casting block core shift/porosity improvements (lack of) etc no change in deck heights or other performance improvement benefits Alun , you could say just a pattern LR block , still have the head gasket fire ring incorrectly sandwiched to the block material rather than the liner however

Edited by Zener on Sunday 19th January 23:56

[ChimpOnGas]

Classic Chim said:

Interesting, I was told my car could have had enclosed headlights as it’s registered 30/3/2000 and is effectively a Mk 3 but that can’t be correct then.

The thing is while we like to talk about the Mk1, M2 & Mk3 this can be misleading as the cars were evolving constantly, for instance a 1993 Mk1 Chimaera will have the L77 Land Rover gearbox, a GKN diff and ETB gauges, while a 1995 Mk1 will have a 'Z' spec Borg Warner T5, a BTR diff and Caerbont gauges.

Chimaeras built in late 1996 were a bit of a mix & match of Mk1 & Mk2 parts, my car was built in November 1996 so it got the all body/styling changes of the Mk2 but still had the plunger type door openers on B pillars rather than the electric buttons under the morrors. Obviously I got all the later Mk1 drivetrain upgrades decribed above but it still came with the three button Mk1 dash, it was also in the very last run of Chimaeras to benefit from the better Mk1 silver/grey chassis finish which I'm told was paint not powder coat.

The truth is it's impossible to clearly define exact changeover dates between the Mk1,2,3, this was because TVR deployed a policy of contant evolution and development, parts used could litrally be different on cars built from one week to the next. TVR typically used up whatever they had before moving on to the next development, but saying that if you look at export Chimaeras they were still using up their stock the old Mk1 three button dash panels right up to 1998, so a good 2 years after every UK market car recieved the Mk2 dash.

However, a Mk3 will have certain clearly defining features which makes it a tue Mk3, these being the Cerbera seats, faired headlights, the Tuscan tail housing T5 gearbox and no gear linkage TVR used to put the gear stick in the correct place on earlier T5 equiped Chimaeras. The bottom line is if you put a 1993 Chimaera back to back with the very last built Mk3 there wont be a massive difference between the cars, yes the Mk3 is a little more refined and developed but it's hardly night and day.

A Mk1 and a Mk3 are very much the same great car built by hand to a price, it's why those in the know advise if you're looking for a Chimaera you're best off buying on condition. A fully restored Mk1 thats been lovingly nut & bolt restored will beat a rough late model Chimaera all day long, ironically that late model car that will undoubatably be hiding some big bills will comand a higher sale price than the mint Mk1

[Oldred_V8S]

ChimpOnGas said:

Rare cars those Mk3s and the best of the breed for sure, but in short supply as productiion of the new exciting and altogether more modern looking Tuscan had already started in 1999. Demand for the old Chimaera was very much on the wain and by 2002 the Tamora had appreard putting the final nail in the Chimaera's coffin.

The irony is those who chose a Speed Six engined model over the Mk3 Chimaera would soon live to regret that decission, sure they bought a more modern TVR but as we all know now it just wasnt developed properly. Launched in 1993 the Chimaera which was really just a Griffith in a different set of cloths was way more reliable in its very first year of production than the Tuscan was even after three years of development.

Now take the Chimaera that was more reliable straight out of the box in year one and constantly develop it over the next 8 years and what you end up with is the Mk3. Clearly what the 2001 TVR buyer should have purchased was by far the most developed TVR ever, however what he actuually did was buy one of the least developed TVRs ever complete with its chocolate engine.

Hidsight is a wonderfull thing

Some good points, though the Chimaera wasn't the clean sheet product that the Tuscan or the Tamora was, so maybe a bit unfair to judge out of the box reliability.
As you pointed out in a later post, the early Chim had LT77 boxes and other mechanicals from the Griff (and V8S) before it; though of course was not as good looking as either
The Chim is far prettier than either the Tuscan or Tamora and give me a V8 over a 6 pot any day.

[rockits]

I think you're right that you need to treat each car individually on a case by case basis. They are all so different as you say.

I bought the Red 500 as it just made the most sense at the time. All the very big ticket items have been dealt with and all new loom, lines, hoses, engine/diff/gearbox rebuild, chassis refurb and everything short of a full body respray. It was less of a risk than other cars I had seen.

It was a Mk1 and red neither that I had ideally picked out. However these were compromises I felt I could live with in exchange for the so many positives the car offered. It will always be a Mk1 but that bothers me least. The red I have an idea to respray Candy Apple Red but it is not horrific and I can live with it short term. Some like red some don't. I'm just not a massive fan of reds and prefer blues.