Body Off - The Naked Truth
Discussion
Classic Chim said:
Zener said:
No need for galvanizing IMO these coating processes above will last long enough anyway 
many of us will be brown bread before they need attention again 
many of us will be brown bread before they need attention again 
The way I see it if TVR's effors lasted 23 years, my thicker wall seamless tube outriggers painted in industrial marine grade epoxy mastic and now shielded from whatever the wheels throw up with stainless steel outrigger protectors will definitely last considerably longer!
And considerably longer than 23 years is a very very long time
ChimpOnGas said:
So true!
The way I see it if TVR's effors lasted 23 years, my thicker wall seamless tube outriggers painted in industrial marine grade epoxy mastic and now shielded from whatever the wheels throw up with stainless steel outrigger protectors will definitely last considerably longer!
And considerably longer than 23 years is a very very long time
To think our TVR’s will still be around when folk are taking holidays to the moon The way I see it if TVR's effors lasted 23 years, my thicker wall seamless tube outriggers painted in industrial marine grade epoxy mastic and now shielded from whatever the wheels throw up with stainless steel outrigger protectors will definitely last considerably longer!
And considerably longer than 23 years is a very very long time
ChimpOnGas said:
LLantrisant said:
if i would do a body off chassis refurb or chassis change...i would ONLY galvanize the chassis....not messing around with discussions like "paint", "which paint", or "powdercoat"
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.28579953...
this is THE one and ONLY real solution against corrosion!!!
What a load of old tosh, for starters that Facebook link takes me to a guy in Hungary, how the hell are you going to control a restoration project when your pride and joy is on the far side of the European continent? Now consider how you're going to get the car there and get it back too, the labour may be cheap but I think we all know it's a way too risky and impractical option to send your car so far away for such work.https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.28579953...
this is THE one and ONLY real solution against corrosion!!!
Your short sighted throw away comments are also way too easy to post on a forum, especially when in making such statements you're effectively spending someone else's money.
Before progressing it may be worth asking yourself these five simple questions...
Q1. Have you actually pulled the trigger on this work yourself, or are you just fantasising on what you'd like to do?
Q2. How much will such a nut & bolt full galvanized job cost?
Q3. It this something you can afford or is it just more fantasy?
Q4. How much resale value will it add?
Q5. How long do you want your chassis to last?
My chassis refurbishment is really happening and its happening right now, you can follow it here.
But rest assured before I decided how it was going to be done I thought long and hard about the process that made best sense based on my needs, and which process would deliver best value.
- I studied all the options
- I considered the number of years each option would buy me
- I kept in the back of my mind that TVR's poor job lasted 23 years itself
- I was honest with myself how many more years I was likely to keep the car
- I considered the market value of TVR Chimaeras
- I estimated the improvement to my car's resale value each option would deliver
- I gave careful consideration to who would do the work, their skills and attention to detail
- I balanced all the above against cost and quality
Quite clearly the full nut and bolt galvansied job is far from being THE one and ONLY real solution against corrosion you suggest it is!!!
Please can we stop talking nonsense and try to show a higher level of intelligence when making comments.
Thanks, Dave.
ray von said:
Good thread showing a lesser well known guys work and approach. However the bit in bold is no different to what you were doing telling everyone how good your aftermarket ECU was on here, but in reality you were were having nothing but problems with it, what was it something like 5 ECU's fitted?
Mmmmm, the ECU and control relay have been fitted upside down yet the error has never been noticed
Penelope Stopit said:
Does the orientation cause a problem and if so what problem. If you turned the fuse box upside down would the relays still work?
Some relays on the o/e looms float about in thin air or resting atop the battery etc!
Confused.
ray von said:
Good thread showing a lesser well known guys work and approach. However the bit in bold is no different to what you were doing telling everyone how good your aftermarket ECU was on here, but in reality you were were having nothing but problems with it, what was it something like 5 ECU's fitted?
He was having problems with one issue I seem to remember. Why ruin this thread attempting to drag up something totally unrelated.
How flipping sad is that.
Politics of a customer trying to resolve an issue, on a site like this where people jump on band wagons,,,, a bit of lateral thinking here as he clearly wanted the supplier to succeed and supported them so.
Get me drift
As for the man’s bullet points, I can’t argue with that approach.
The simple facts are if the rust areas are treated properly before re painting ( in this case ) then the chassis is good to go.
What’s the problem in that.
Alex Wheatley is a fabulous welder from what I’ve seen, an engineer or such, he’d do simple cars like this in his sleep.
The approach is very impressive imho. Not all these cars or owners want to waste money on what are now old cars with little value, Mr Wheatley’s approach seems to be to help customers achieve a safe car without it HAVING to cost a small fortune.
Keeps cars safe and on the road. Goodman.
Never met him but his welds speak volumes.
Edited by Classic Chim on Sunday 2nd February 11:46
Classic Chim said:
He was having problems with one issue I seem to remember.
Why ruin this thread attempting to drag up something totally unrelated.
How flipping sad is that.
Politics of a customer trying to resolve an issue, on a site like this where people jump on band wagons,,,, a bit of lateral thinking here as he clearly wanted the supplier to succeed and supported them so.
Get me drift
Why ruin this thread attempting to drag up something totally unrelated.
How flipping sad is that.
Politics of a customer trying to resolve an issue, on a site like this where people jump on band wagons,,,, a bit of lateral thinking here as he clearly wanted the supplier to succeed and supported them so.
Get me drift
Don't get your panties in a twist. I was merely pointing out that CoG told every man and his dog that his ECU set up was great and could well have influenced someone to spend their hard earned on a flawed system but as has been the ph way forever nothing can be said against some people on here.Imagine if I'd mentioned that I thought the new welding just looked average at best, you would have blown a gasket
I'll agree with you about Verpoorten though
Classic Chim said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Does the orientation cause a problem and if so what problem. If you turned the fuse box upside down would the relays still work?
Some relays on the o/e looms float about in thin air or resting atop the battery etc!
Confused.
The ECU and relay are mounted at a very low point of the car
Professional installations have plugs at the bottom to at least give things a chance, the ECU should be mounted as high in the car as possible
Yes manufacturers do fit ECUs all over the place but modern cars don't let in water like older cars do and modern cars have many ECUs hence they have to be fitted somewhere, plugs are still in lower position though whenever possible
Should you be concerned about your cars electrics, make a bracket or use a length of bar to fasten your cars relays to in the upward position
Here's a recent example of what can happen
ray von said:
Don't get your panties in a twist. I was merely pointing out that CoG told every man and his dog that his ECU set up was great and could well have influenced someone to spend their hard earned on a flawed system but as has been the ph way forever nothing can be said against some people on here.Imagine if I'd mentioned that I thought the new welding just looked average at best, you would have blown a gasket
I'll agree with you about Verpoorten though
I think Dave and the supplier resolved this issue one way or another and let’s be honest not many are going to convert a Tvr to gas,,,
The thing is I’ve witnessed Dave’s car running on lpg, it’s a masterpiece and works extremely well and dare I say it better than most Lpg conversions in the land as those systems are never ideal for a number of reasons.
There’s pretty welds, there’s ugly welds and there’s down right poor welds,,, I’ve seen all of those recently
good things come to those who wait or more importantly employ pro’s Edited by Classic Chim on Sunday 2nd February 12:54
Penelope Stopit said:
Water is heavy and runs well, given a chance it will slowly run inside cables
The ECU and relay are mounted at a very low point of the car
Professional installations have plugs at the bottom to at least give things a chance, the ECU should be mounted as high in the car as possible
Yes manufacturers do fit ECUs all over the place but modern cars don't let in water like older cars do and modern cars have many ECUs hence they have to be fitted somewhere, plugs are still in lower position though whenever possible
Should you be concerned about your cars electrics, make a bracket or use a length of bar to fasten your cars relays to in the upward position
Here's a recent example of what can happen
Very true, as a windows man I should have known that. The ECU and relay are mounted at a very low point of the car
Professional installations have plugs at the bottom to at least give things a chance, the ECU should be mounted as high in the car as possible
Yes manufacturers do fit ECUs all over the place but modern cars don't let in water like older cars do and modern cars have many ECUs hence they have to be fitted somewhere, plugs are still in lower position though whenever possible
Should you be concerned about your cars electrics, make a bracket or use a length of bar to fasten your cars relays to in the upward position
Here's a recent example of what can happen
Water travels south using the easiest route.
Mines tucked up snuggly with dampening pads on the shelf behind the glove pouch.
Back to thread, Alex Wheatley work looks very good would we agree. I think Dave’s made an excellent choice going by what we have seen already.
It’s a lot of work and much still to do so a long way to go yet. I’ve been cleaning things myself, it’s hours and hours of work.
Classic Chim said:
There’s pretty welds, there’s ugly welds and there’s down right poor welds,,, I’ve seen all of those recently good things come to those who wait or more importantly employ pro’s
I have a vague recollection of having a discussion on here years ago, if not here then another forum. There was a guy who'd bought a MIG set and was going to do his outriggers some people wouldn't have it that just because a weld 'looked' good didn't mean that it's a good weld, but each to their own and if CoG is happy with the welds then that's all that matters, it'll all be covered in paint soon anyway so no one will see it good things come to those who wait or more importantly employ pro’s It always surprised me that some mechanics suddenly became expert welder/ fabricators once people started wanting chassis repairs, it's really not that easy to produce quality welds
ray von said:
Classic Chim said:
There’s pretty welds, there’s ugly welds and there’s down right poor welds,,, I’ve seen all of those recently good things come to those who wait or more importantly employ pro’s
I have a vague recollection of having a discussion on here years ago, if not here then another forum. There was a guy who'd bought a MIG set and was going to do his outriggers some people wouldn't have it that just because a weld 'looked' good didn't mean that it's a good weld, but each to their own and if CoG is happy with the welds then that's all that matters, it'll all be covered in paint soon anyway so no one will see it good things come to those who wait or more importantly employ pro’s It always surprised me that some mechanics suddenly became expert welder/ fabricators once people started wanting chassis repairs, it's really not that easy to produce quality welds
Ah I see the old Pistonheads negativity 'we want to see you fail' attitude returns with a vengence
And in typical Pistonheads fashion those trying to do down others are the same people who offer nothing constructive to the community themselves.
This post is about my chassis restoration so if you're interested in that then you're in the right place, if however you want to introduce a completely unrelated subject such as engine management may I suggest you start a new topic.
As always I will continue to give ballanced feedback both good and bad, where issues arrise I will always explain how I fixed them, this to help others who may suffer a similar predicament and is often after I gave the installers many chances to fix the issue on their own work.... but had failed to do so!
To draw a line under this and bring things back on topic I'll end by saying when I dropped the car off with Alex in early December he used it for a good week or so, he has a very sensible policy of getting to know each car fully apraising it and listing any faults, rattles and noises before he pulls it apart.
This way there can be no argument when the car is returned to the customer, the result of this appraisal on my TVR being high praise for the way the car drives, and given the man has driven litrally hundreds of Chimaeras in his capacity as mechanic for Str8Six and rumning his own TVR repair business thats praise indeed. It should also be noted 90% of the appraisal was conducted on LPG as we wanted to burn off the gas before removing the tanks, so it's always nice to have one's work validated by an independent expert as this is the very best endorsement you've got it right.
Pleasingly having gone to great lengths to develop a nicer driving and rattle free TVR only one slight knock was pinpointed and brought to my attention by Alex, I myself knew about this knock but had failed to locate its source by the time the car was dropped off for the work. To my surprise Alex identified a collapsed Bilstein bush which are only three years young, still its a cheap fix and well found by Alex so I'm happy he was able to track it down.
When I get the car back with the stronger rot free outriggers and that collapsed Bilstein bush renewed I fully expect the car to be even better in the NHV department than it was when I dropped it off, I also expect the drivability, throttle response and idle quality to be exactly as it was.
As part of the chassis restoration earthing points will be cleaned up and improved, so there may actually be other benefits to come from the work such as a louder horn, stronger radiator fans and brighter headlights ect.
And in typical Pistonheads fashion those trying to do down others are the same people who offer nothing constructive to the community themselves.
This post is about my chassis restoration so if you're interested in that then you're in the right place, if however you want to introduce a completely unrelated subject such as engine management may I suggest you start a new topic.
As always I will continue to give ballanced feedback both good and bad, where issues arrise I will always explain how I fixed them, this to help others who may suffer a similar predicament and is often after I gave the installers many chances to fix the issue on their own work.... but had failed to do so!
To draw a line under this and bring things back on topic I'll end by saying when I dropped the car off with Alex in early December he used it for a good week or so, he has a very sensible policy of getting to know each car fully apraising it and listing any faults, rattles and noises before he pulls it apart.
This way there can be no argument when the car is returned to the customer, the result of this appraisal on my TVR being high praise for the way the car drives, and given the man has driven litrally hundreds of Chimaeras in his capacity as mechanic for Str8Six and rumning his own TVR repair business thats praise indeed. It should also be noted 90% of the appraisal was conducted on LPG as we wanted to burn off the gas before removing the tanks, so it's always nice to have one's work validated by an independent expert as this is the very best endorsement you've got it right.
Pleasingly having gone to great lengths to develop a nicer driving and rattle free TVR only one slight knock was pinpointed and brought to my attention by Alex, I myself knew about this knock but had failed to locate its source by the time the car was dropped off for the work. To my surprise Alex identified a collapsed Bilstein bush which are only three years young, still its a cheap fix and well found by Alex so I'm happy he was able to track it down.
When I get the car back with the stronger rot free outriggers and that collapsed Bilstein bush renewed I fully expect the car to be even better in the NHV department than it was when I dropped it off, I also expect the drivability, throttle response and idle quality to be exactly as it was.
As part of the chassis restoration earthing points will be cleaned up and improved, so there may actually be other benefits to come from the work such as a louder horn, stronger radiator fans and brighter headlights ect.
Ah the old pm from a disgruntled reader. If you think my comments are out of order then report them to the mods and let them delete them, I have no problem with that but I'll always stand by any comment I've made about the multitude of mechanics who became expert welders overnight.
Just remember you have insinuated that o/e TVR welders were poor and for all you know they may have set up on their own or are working for companies repairing chassis so you could be damaging a business.
FWIW I think CoG approach to his job is correct, this is from someone who had a powder coated rebuilt chassis, the paint will outlast powder coating no matter how well it's done.
Bit surprised with the Bilstein bush, I recommended he get them
Just remember you have insinuated that o/e TVR welders were poor and for all you know they may have set up on their own or are working for companies repairing chassis so you could be damaging a business.
FWIW I think CoG approach to his job is correct, this is from someone who had a powder coated rebuilt chassis, the paint will outlast powder coating no matter how well it's done.
Bit surprised with the Bilstein bush, I recommended he get them
Classic Chim said:
magpies said:
as anyone seen a TVR chassis with failed welds?
Not likely, the tubes disintegrate long before that. The 1.5 mm tubes are a tenth the strength of the welds in any case.
Much like TVR's reputation for poor reliability, the fame our cars have for chassis corrosion is a mixture of truth and inaccurate scaremongering from the pub experts who've typically never owned a TVR, these types love nothing better than taking a grain of truth and embellishing it with their own teeth sucking doom sayer misinformation.
What I hope my & Alun's posts are demonstrating is just like the TVR unreliability reputation the truth about chassis corrosion on these cars really isn't anywhere near as bad as all the negative pub experts will have you believe, I'm also trying to show there's more than one way to address the issue. Choice is always a good thing but logically which option people choose should really be driven by how long they're planning on keeping their TVR before selling it on, for example when a TVR dealer puts new outriggers on a Chimaera I'll put money on him doing the cheapest body on way. This is because all he's looking to do is make the highest margin and turn a difficult to sell car he bought cheaply from a private seller into something he can move on quickly and at a good profit.
| Option | Process | Pros | Cons |
| 1 | Body on outrigger replacement | Chepest Option, ideal for car dealers and those looking to sell their TVR on in the next year or two | Good quality 360* outrigger welds are impossible without cutting holes in the fiberglass floor and all the other known areas of chassis corrosion are left completely untreated |
| 2 | 6" body lift outrigger replacement | Good value better option | 360* outrigger welds now possible without cutting holes in the fiberglass floor but all the other known areas of chassis corrosion left completely untreated |
| 3 | Body off restoration with a complete nut & bolt chassis strip | Best option if you can afford it offering unrivaled access for quality welds, no holes cut in the fiberglass floor, the entire chassis taken back to bare metal, all corroded (and non corroded) areas treated | Very expensive to the extent it is not economically viable given the current market value of Chimaeras unless you're doing the work yourself or planning on keeping the car for the next 30 years!!! |
| 4 | Body off restoration without the complete chassis strip | Best value option offering unrivaled access for quality welds, no holes cut in the fiberglass floor, all other chassis corrosion treated, option to address any mechanical issues that are hard to reach with the body left on the chassis | It's not a full bare metal chassis strip zero hours nut & bolt chassis/drivetrain restoration but is this really needed? |
There's no question option 3 is the most comprehensive approach but given how well the central spine is proven to last a lot of this process is invested in restoring a significant percentage of the chassis that would have continued to last indefinitely if the factory finish was left completely untouched. Spending money restoring areas that really don't need restoring seems wasteful to me, while its nice to take the whole structure back to bare metal and the end result makes for great photos and bragging rights on PH is it really necessary? I'd argue not!
My chassis lasted 23 years before the body needed to come off with TVR's finish protecting it, if I'd just gone for a body on or partial lift outrigger job I suspect it would have given the chassis another 5 years before all the other areas of corrosion left untreated would start to become a real problem and so requiring a body off job anyway. Options 1 & 2 would definitely make best sense if I was planning on selling the car in the next year or two but ultimately were rejected this on the grounds I plan on keeping the car for another 10 years.
Option 3 was certainly tempting but there's no getting away from it it's a very costly approach, throwing £8k or more on a car that's market value is only ever going to be in the order of £15k at best even after such a full bare metal chassis restoration isn't the smartest use of my hard earned money when there are so many other expenses in life. I'd also wager after the full Monty option 3 approach my chassis would be good for 50 years, but with option 4 predicted to extend chassis life by almost as many years for a third of the cost it soon became the no-brainer choice.
I'm just grateful there are talented automotive engineers out there who offer a quality long lasting chassis restoration option that's affordable and in proportion to the current Chimaera market value, in doing so they're helping to keep these fantastic but undervalued cars on the road which as TVR enthusiasts we should all be grateful for
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