Injector Upgrades - The Vectra Injector Mod is Dead!

Injector Upgrades - The Vectra Injector Mod is Dead!

Author
Discussion

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

152 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
This post is to share my petrol injector upgrade journey, and hopefully will serve to help others considering upgrading their petrol injectors?

The story starts some 9 years ago when I was still on the 14CUX and I upgraded to a set of Vectra injectors. For those who don't know the Vectra injectors are high quality German made twin port pintle type and a proven direct fit for Chims and Griffs and known to work perfectly with the 14CUX ECU. Without doing anything with your fuel pressure at 38psi the 250cc Vecra injectors are good for 320hp at 90% duty, up your fuel pressure to 43.5psi (3.0 Bar) and you're good right up to 343hp at the same 90% duty.



These injectors worked a treat on my 4.0HC 14CUX Chimaera, then about a year or so later I went with a Canems engine management system at which point I simply retained them with no issues whatsoever.

Here are the details:
  • Application: Vectra B, Astra, Omega with x18xe & x20xev engines (1995-2002)
  • GM part no: GM 90501588
  • Siemens OEM part no: 5WK90761
  • Flow: 250cc @ 3.0 bar
  • Impedance: High (14.2 – 15.3 Ohm)



Compare this with the original Lucas injectors:
  • Land Rover part no: ERR722
  • Flow: 200cc @ 3.0 bar
  • Impedance: High (16.2 Ohm)



Now, as injector tech has moved on quite a bit from the days of my old Vectra double squirters and it was time to recondition them anyway I decided to look for a better replacement, what I was looking for was a more modern four port design that is well known to deliver better atomisation, the solution came in the form of the Bosch 0 280 156 045.





These injectors not only have the far superior four port design but they are also closer in size to the original Lucas driblers so would make an even better upgrade over the Vectra injectors for anyone still running the 14CUX, basically you leapfrog the old Vectra twin ports and jump straight to the next generation four port type which themselves are at least two generations ahead of the ancient original Lucas disc type injectors.

Here are the details:
  • Application: Vauxhall Opel Omega & Vectra 2.6i & 3.2i V6 2000-03. Cadillac CTS 3.2 2002-04
  • Vauxhall part no: 93170386
  • Bosch OEM part no: 0 280 156 045
  • Flow: 208.9cc @ 3.0 bar
  • Impedance: High (14.5 Ohm)
You can buy a brand new set of 8 genuine Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors from here for £287.28 including postage which is a great price for 8 genuine Bosch injectors, for what you save sourcing an reconditioning a set of used ones buying new is a no brainer.

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/bosch/689352

Just watch out for fakes on eBay, there are loads out there guys!

While they are smaller than the Vectra injectors they're still a little larger than the Lucas injectors so are good to 315hp making the ideal for the vast majority of Chims and Griffs out there, what you get is vastly superior atomisation in an injector that's light years better than your ancient old Lucas disc types, combine a set of these four port Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors with a full ignition service including getting shot of those dreadful old B7ECS plugs (if you still have them) and switching to a BP6ES or Iridium equivalent and you should see great improvements.

The truth is my old Vectra injectors were well pasted their best, they were a reconditioned set some nine years ago and being out of a Vectra they had probably done 250,000 rep miles before I got hold of them so they were definitely due replacement. But boy what an improvement, with the Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors installed and some tweaks to the petrol fuel map the car now idles way smoother, acceleration is smoother and throttle response is sharper too.

I've yet to test fuel economy by I wouldn't mine betting it's significantly improved, so overall I'd say for anyone under 320hp these four port injectors now firmly replace the Vectra injectors as the go to injector upgrade for our cars.

I hope this helps others achieve a smother nicer driving TVR


VerySideways

10,152 posts

245 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
What a superbly informative post

Barreti

6,667 posts

210 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
What a brilliant post Dave.

Would you mind if I copied this and created a page for TVRGriffithPages
I will of course credit you for it Dave.

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

152 months

Saturday 15th August 2020
quotequote all
Barreti said:
What a brilliant post Dave.

Would you mind if I copied this and created a page for TVRGriffithPages
I will of course credit you for it Dave.
With my pleasure, as I say I hope others find the information helpful?

Dave.

SILICONEKID 357HP

14,997 posts

204 months

Sunday 16th August 2020
quotequote all
Are the Bosch fiveo gen 3s out of date ?

They have been in a few years now .

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

152 months

Sunday 16th August 2020
quotequote all
For completeness, here are what my old Vectra injectors looked like after 9 years yuck







All the 'O' rings were cooked hard, compressed, and distorted.

Visibly there's a lot carbon present too so I'm certain if they were put on an injector test rig they would give truly dreadful spray pasterns, as you can imagine I've enjoyed great improvements across the board since fitting my new Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors.

Interestingly being a smaller injector that shifts 20% less fuel than my Vectra injectors you'd think I would need to dial in longer opening times to deliver the same AFRs, however the opposite was actually required indicating my old Vectra injector nozzles were badly fouled.


Jobster

100 posts

71 months

Sunday 16th August 2020
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
This post is to share my petrol injector upgrade journey, and hopefully will serve to help others considering upgrading their petrol injectors?

The story starts some 9 years ago when I was still on the 14CUX and I upgraded to a set of Vectra injectors. For those who don't know the Vectra injectors are high quality German made twin port pintle type and a proven direct fit for Chims and Griffs and known to work perfectly with the 14CUX ECU. Without doing anything with your fuel pressure at 38psi the 250cc Vecra injectors are good for 320hp at 90% duty, up your fuel pressure to 43.5psi (3.0 Bar) and you're good right up to 343hp at the same 90% duty.



These injectors worked a treat on my 4.0HC 14CUX Chimaera, then about a year or so later I went with a Canems engine management system at which point I simply retained them with no issues whatsoever.

Here are the details:
  • Application: Vectra B, Astra, Omega with x18xe & x20xev engines (1995-2002)
  • GM part no: GM 90501588
  • Siemens OEM part no: 5WK90761
  • Flow: 250cc @ 3.0 bar
  • Impedance: High (14.2 – 15.3 Ohm)



Compare this with the original Lucas injectors:
  • Land Rover part no: ERR722
  • Flow: 200cc @ 3.0 bar
  • Impedance: High (16.2 Ohm)



Now, as injector tech has moved on quite a bit from the days of my old Vectra double squirters and it was time to recondition them anyway I decided to look for a better replacement, what I was looking for was a more modern four port design that is well known to deliver better atomisation, the solution came in the form of the Bosch 0 280 156 045.





These injectors not only have the far superior four port design but they are also closer in size to the original Lucas driblers so would make an even better upgrade over the Vectra injectors for anyone still running the 14CUX, basically you leapfrog the old Vectra twin ports and jump straight to the next generation four port type which themselves are at least two generations ahead of the ancient original Lucas disc type injectors.

Here are the details:
  • Application: Vauxhall Opel Omega & Vectra 2.6i & 3.2i V6 2000-03. Cadillac CTS 3.2 2002-04
  • Vauxhall part no: 93170386
  • Bosch OEM part no: 0 280 156 045
  • Flow: 208.9cc @ 3.0 bar
  • Impedance: High (14.5 Ohm)
You can buy a brand new set of 8 genuine Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors from here for £287.28 including postage which is a great price for 8 genuine Bosch injectors, for what you save sourcing an reconditioning a set of used ones buying new is a no brainer.

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/bosch/689352

Just watch out for fakes on eBay, there are loads out there guys!

While they are smaller than the Vectra injectors they're still a little larger than the Lucas injectors so are good to 315hp making the ideal for the vast majority of Chims and Griffs out there, what you get is vastly superior atomisation in an injector that's light years better than your ancient old Lucas disc types, combine a set of these four port Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors with a full ignition service including getting shot of those dreadful old B7ECS plugs (if you still have them) and switching to a BP6ES or Iridium equivalent and you should see great improvements.

The truth is my old Vectra injectors were well pasted their best, they were a reconditioned set some nine years ago and being out of a Vectra they had probably done 250,000 rep miles before I got hold of them so they were definitely due replacement. But boy what an improvement, with the Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors installed and some tweaks to the petrol fuel map the car now idles way smoother, acceleration is smoother and throttle response is sharper too.

I've yet to test fuel economy by I wouldn't mine betting it's significantly improved, so overall I'd say for anyone under 320hp these four port injectors now firmly replace the Vectra injectors as the go to injector upgrade for our cars.

I hope this helps others achieve a smother nicer driving TVR
So this is a straight forward swap on a all standard, 14CUX, 4.0 L engine? No adjustments to be made afterward?

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

152 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
Jobster said:
So this is a straight forward swap on a all standard, 14CUX, 4.0 L engine? No adjustments to be made afterward?
Yes, they should be a direct plug and play upgrade on any Chim or Griff still running the Lucas 14CUX, I ran the bigger Vectra injectors when my Chimaera was still on the 14CUX no problem at all.

As I said......

ChimpOnGas said:
The story starts some 9 years ago when I was still on the 14CUX and I upgraded to a set of Vectra injectors. For those who don't know the Vectra injectors are high quality German made twin port pintle type and a proven direct fit for Chims and Griffs and known to work perfectly with the 14CUX ECU. Without doing anything with your fuel pressure at 38psi the 250cc Vecra injectors are good for 320hp at 90% duty, up your fuel pressure to 43.5psi (3.0 Bar) and you're good right up to 343hp at the same 90% duty.
And....

ChimpOnGas said:
These Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors not only have the far superior four port design but they are also closer in size to the original Lucas driblers so would make an even better upgrade over the Vectra injectors for anyone still running the 14CUX, basically you leapfrog the old Vectra twin ports and jump straight to the next generation four port type which themselves are at least two generations ahead of the ancient original Lucas disc type injectors.
The Vectra injectors are a common mod, many have used them to good effect as a plug and play upgrade in their 14CUX equipped Chimaera and Griffith. Like the 250cc Vectra injectors I fitted 9 years ago and ran on both the 14CUX and my Canems system the critical dimensions of the Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors are exactly the same as the original Lucas disc type injectors, so in this respect they are a direct fit.

The Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors flow 208.9cc @ 3.0 bar which is actually a lot closer to the 200cc the Lucas injectors flow, making them a better match than the bigger 250cc Vectra injectors that definitely work just fine themselves. All three types of injector are of the high impedance type, the original Lucas injectors are rated at 16.2 Ohm, both the Vectra and Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors are within range rated between 14.2 – 15.3 Ohm, if you measured all three injectors they will be within one Ohm of each other which is something and nothing, and to be fair you'll almost certainly see more impedance variation across the typical set of 8 Lucas disc type injectors anyway.

When its working correctly the Lucas 14CUX, just a licensed copy of the Bosch 'L' Jetronic system, is very adaptable automatically compensating for all sorts of fueling and atmospheric changes all by itself, actually in the self correcting department it's way ahead of the usual after market engine management systems installed on our cars. This flexible adaptability allows you you to fit the 20% larger Vectra injectors without issue, in closed loop the 14CUX will adapt and when the ECU goes into open loop the richer results are only of benefit especially on a 5.0 litre Chim/Griff that tend to max out the ancient Lucas disc type driblers.

The Vectra injectors flow 20% more fuel than the original Lucas injectors, the 208.9cc Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors flow 5% more which in truth make's them pretty much perfectly sized for a 4.0 litre Chimaera still on the 14CUX, or one running any other engine management system for that matter. However, the Bosch 0 280 156 045 injector scores further points by sporting the more modern and far superior four port design which will deliver far better atomisation than the twin port Vectra injectors and night and day better than the ancient Lucas disc type injectors that deliver one of the worst spray patterns since the advent of the electronic fuel injector.

Injector technology has moved on massively since the ancient Lucas disc type injectors, actually the disc type injectors were only really used for a very short window in time from the mid 80's to early 90's and even then were only adopted by a few car makers. By the mid 1990's everyone had universally switched to pintle type injectors because they are so much better, first we saw single port, then came the twin port type as used on the Vectra injectors, but things took a massive step forward when the four port design came on the scene in the very late 1990's / early 2000's.

Following hot on the heels of the computer technology revolution, during the same time the 1990's was a period of extremely rapid development in fuel injection technology, year on year ECU's were becoming massively more sophisticated so all the associated hardware like fuel injectors needed to keep up, all this means if you move from the original Lucas disc type injectors to a set of four port Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors you'll be jumping forward some four clear steps ahead in injector development/technology.

Given the age of our cars I'd argue most Chimaeras would benefit from an injector clean and a new set of 'O' rings, those 'O' rings are more important than you think too and when they go hard you don't always smell fuel. The injector tip is designed to operate under vacuum so the seal the 'O' ring creates is critical, it ensures you have the correct fuel pressure. It's important to understand here that rail pressure and injector pressure are two different things, the 14CUX system is already designed to run at a rather low (for fuel injection standards) 38psi, the TVR fuel pump wiring is also rather poor so a low current supply to the fuel pump is common, as are corroded fuel pump contacts. Add all this up and throw in some aged injector 'O' rings and your true fuel pressure at the injector tips can easily be far lower than ideal, atomosation will be poor and especially if you're still on the Lucas disc type injectors.

Because fuel pressure plays such a critical part in the correct operation of a fuel injected vehicle its well worth improving the current supply to the fuel pump on your TVR, fit a set of new and far more modern four port 208.9cc Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors that obviously will come with new 'O' rings and you can take advantage of this more stable fuel pressure too. Then give your ignition system a good service fitting new HT leads, BP6ES plugs ect ect and you should notice the car starts better, idles smoother, accelerates stronger, and generally drives much better.

Finally as I run a mappable Canems after market engine management system I went one step further upping the Lucas 38psi by 15% to 43.5psi (3 Bar), I achieved this for just £32.00 by installing a BMW 3 (E30) 316 i fuel pressure regulator which is a direct fit in the Land Rover rail used on our cars. The 15% increase in rail pressure a BMW FPR delivers further aids atomisation especially when paired with a set of Bosch 0 280 156 045 four port injectors, however I would urge caution messing with your fuel pressure if you're still on the Lucas 14CUX system.

indigochim

1,148 posts

103 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
This post is to share my petrol injector upgrade journey, and hopefully will serve to help others considering upgrading their petrol injectors?
....snip


..../snip

You can buy a brand new set of 8 genuine Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors from here for £287.28 including postage which is a great price for 8 genuine Bosch injectors, for what you save sourcing an reconditioning a set of used ones buying new is a no brainer.

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/bosch/689352

......
Thanks for the info. I've wondered about replacing the injectors before and contemplate the refurbished sets the guy on ebay sells from Spain. Also looked at some of the other sets that are supposed to be suitable replacements but never been sure.

You say these are a direct suitable replacement for the Lucas ones in a 400, presumable the 450 is just the same. I'm running a mostly standard setup with a full decat "sports" manifolds. I'm still running the CUX management system but was about to fit a new chip with the later rom from Remap-14CUX but have been contemplating an upgrade to an aftermarket system.

For ref these can be bought from the German autodoc site for €33 each making the lot just under £240 delivered if you have a fee free card (shipping is free over a certain amount) I've bought brake parts from the German site in the past without issues.

Edited by indigochim on Monday 17th August 12:08

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

152 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
indigochim said:
Thanks for the info. I've wondered about replacing the injectors before and contemplate the refurbished sets the guy on ebay sells from Spain. Also looked at some of the other sets that are supposed to be suitable replacements but never been sure.
Not seen these, reconditioned I suspect, what does he charge for a set of 8?

indigochim said:
You say these are a direct suitable replacement for the Lucas ones in a 400, presumable the 450 is just the same. I'm running a mostly standard setup with a full decat "sports" manifolds. I'm still running the CUX management system but was about to fit a new chip with the later rom from Remap-14CUX but have been contemplating an upgrade to an aftermarket system.
I'd say they're fine right up to the 5.0 litre cars, after all TVR just used the 200cc Lucas injectors in all engine sizes and the Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors flow 208.9cc at the same pressure, to be honest as long as you're not pushing north of 310hp I'm sure they'll be fine.

indigochim said:
For ref these can be bought from the German autodoc site for €33 each making the lot just under £240 delivered if you have a fee free card (shipping is free over a certain amount) I've bought brake parts from the German site in the past without issues.
Excellent find, £240 delivered for a brand new set of genuine Bosch injectors is outstanding value for money, I can see quite a few people taking this option as its only £58.50 more than a recondition set of used injectors.

NB: I know this because I've just found this link....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-Classic-Bos...

angus337

618 posts

182 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
That's a bargain price for a set of new injectors.

Reconditioned also a good option though. I bought a set of the 315cc capacity Bosch injectors (0208155759) from the Ebay seller linked above for £160. great service and came with new internals and flow test certs.

As mentioned above beware of the fake Chinese injectors on Ebay. there's loads of these about, often at less than £100 for a full set of 8. There's a few test videos on youtube showing pretty shocking performance of these.

hansdaal

252 posts

240 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
Hallo,

Just a quick question. I like that new type of injectors. Very interesting read.
If you want to buy them from E-bay. How can you see diffenrence between the originals and the "fakes".

REgards
Hans.

angus337

618 posts

182 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
hansdaal said:
Hallo,

Just a quick question. I like that new type of injectors. Very interesting read.
If you want to buy them from E-bay. How can you see diffenrence between the originals and the "fakes".

REgards
Hans.
Most of the fakes don't seem to have the model number stamped on the side, probably so they can use the same mould for different models. There are few good articles on the internet with more detail on how to spot them.

Amazon also sell them, often describes as ' Bosch Style' Injectors' , which almost caught me out.

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

152 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
For the record the genuine Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors will come in an official Bosch box and clearly marked as 'Made in Brazil', don't worry about the 'Made in Brazil' thing either as it's actually a sign they're the real thing. Bosch can't make everything in Germany and German wages are expensive too, so they have factories all over the world.



For example a genuine Bosch fuel pump should come marked as 'Made in the Czech Republic', ironically if the pump says 'Made in Germany' it'll more than likely be a fake. Actually one of Bosh's largest and most sophisticated factories is in China so not everything Chinese is junk, for example if you have an aftermarket engine management system with wasted spark and buy Bosh branded Ford coil packs, they will be made in China.

Wherever Bosch set up a factory a great deal of time and effort is put into ensuring the output meets their exacting quality control standards, their global brand and reputation for quality depends on it. If you buy these injectors off eBay then the best of luck to to you, I did score two genuine ones off a seller for £21.00 each, and yes they were 100% genuine, but 98% of what you'll find on eBay will definitely be Chinese fakes.

Beware eBay sellers who say things like "these are unboxed new genuine Bosch injectors removed from an unused factory supplied engine", no they are not, they are Chinese fakes which is why they are not supplied in the original Bosch box!

angus337 said:
Most of the fakes don't seem to have the model number stamped on the side, probably so they can use the same mould for different models. There are few good articles on the internet with more detail on how to spot them.
Actually this is not strictly true, most of the fakes do have the correct numbers moulded into the injector body, Bosch also code their injectors by colour and the Chinese will nearly always get the shade of the plastic wrong as it's super hard to hit the exact pantone, so if you have a genuine injector as reference the fakes will stand out a mile. The Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors are grey biddies, but you will need a genuine one to compare and make sure your others are the correct shade of grey.

I'll dig out a genuine box, photograph it and its the labels, and the little internal plastic bag the injector is placed in by Bosch. This will help others avoid those fakes, but I would say your best line of defense is to buy from a repeatable auto factor, I believe AutoDoc is reputable and it seems its cheeper to buy from their German site as discovered by indigochim, so we should all thank him for pointing this out.

https://www.autodoc.de/bosch/689352

Good work Warren thumbup

indigochim

1,148 posts

103 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
I've read good feedback in previous threads about that ebay seller.

Just for anyone else's info the Autodoc ones are €282 inc post not as my above post that's still only £255.

edit just answered my own question I guess they're the same item just new with 2 year warranty vs recon.

I presume this is a reasonable straightforward job to replace for a DIYer

Edited by indigochim on Monday 17th August 15:38

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

152 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
indigochim said:
I've read good feedback in previous threads about that ebay seller. Just for anyone else's info the Autodoc ones are €282 inc post not as my above post thats still only £255.
That's still cheaper than the AutoDoc price I got, buying in Euros as you've suggested saves £30 a set which is well worth having, so thanks again Warren thumbup

indigochim said:
I presume the new ones would be better than the refurbished ones.
Absolutely, there's no substitute for new!

When a reconditioner goes through an injector the basket filters get removed and the injector is ultrasonically cleaned, new basket filters and 'O' rings are fitted to the cleaned injector then the set then goes on a test rig to make sure they're all in spec and within tolerance of each other. Basket filters and 'O' rings are cheap as chips so the reconditioner is making very healthy margins indeed, however its important to understand there's a lot more to an injector than 'O' rings and filter baskets,.

The trouble is it's completely impractical to replace the injector connector, the pintle, the plunger, and most importantly the coil, so if you choose the recon route you need to accept you're a long long way off getting a full rebuild. Also keep in mind the two alternative injectors being discussed here are both out of Vauxhalls/Opels which are cars that often see a lot of miles, my reconditioned Vectra injectors for example quite possibly already had 250,000 hard driven rep miles on them meaning the coils alone will have fired a gazillion times before they were re-purposed in my TVR.

New is new!

So make sure its a genuine Bosch injector and you know you're getting a quality component with zero miles on it, with a reconditioned set coming in at £181.50 and a new set just £255 is it really worth the £73.50 saving? If you think about it, that's only £9.19p per injector to go new and have the piece of mid you're fitting a quality set of zero miles injectors.

Running lean due to a failing injector will cost you a lot more than £73.50!.... weeping



indigochim

1,148 posts

103 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
Thanks for the advice once again Dave, as it happens I re visited the UK site and the price difference wasn't worth choosing the .de site. You do get free delivery from the UK site and it's currently £260 for the set. To off set this the very un-pistonhead like site quidco has 4% cashback or 8% for new customers so assuming that works it levels the prices.

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

152 months

Monday 17th August 2020
quotequote all
indigochim said:
Thanks for the advice once again Dave, as it happens I re visited the UK site and the price difference wasn't worth choosing the .de site. You do ge5t free delivery from the UK site and it's currently £260 for the set. To off set this the very un-pistonhead like site quidco has 4% cashback or 8% for new customers so assuming that works it levels the prices.
Excellent contribution thumbup

VerySideways

10,152 posts

245 months

Tuesday 18th August 2020
quotequote all
Just a quick question, does anyone know if there is a higher flow rate version of the Bosch injectors available which are also a direct replacement for the old Lucas units?

My understanding is that the Lucas units are pretty close to full duty on the 5.0 cars, which i presume means the Bosch units would be also?

Thanks in advance.

s3c chris

288 posts

103 months

Tuesday 18th August 2020
quotequote all
Hi all.

I too would be interested to see if new injectors are available with a higher flow rate.
I am led to believe a rate of around 250cc is required for a mildly tuned 500 engine and is also beneficial for a standard one.

It seems the correct part numbers are a closely guarded secret!

Regards Chris .