Injector Upgrades - The Vectra Injector Mod is Dead!
Discussion
VerySideways said:
Just a quick question, does anyone know if there is a higher flow rate version of the Bosch injectors available which are also a direct replacement for the old Lucas units?
My understanding is that the Lucas units are pretty close to full duty on the 5.0 cars, which i presume means the Bosch units would be also?
Thanks in advance.
If you read it, the information you're asking for is my very first post above, and repeated throughout My understanding is that the Lucas units are pretty close to full duty on the 5.0 cars, which i presume means the Bosch units would be also?
Thanks in advance.
However, for the avoidance on any doubt here it all is again......
Standard injectors:
- Application: All Rover V8 Land Rover & TVR models running the Lucas 14CUX system
- Land Rover part no: ERR722
- Flow: 200cc @ 3.0 bar
- Impedance: High (16.2 Ohm)
- Known to max out around 285hp if sticking to the 90% duty rule at the standard 2.6 bar
Four port grey body injectors:
- Application: Vauxhall Opel Omega & Vectra 2.6i & 3.2i V6 2000-03. Cadillac CTS 3.2 2002-04
- Vauxhall part no: 93170386
- Bosch OEM part no: 0 280 156 045
- Flow: 208.9cc @ 3.0 bar
- Impedance: High (14.5 Ohm)
- Good for 310hp @ 3.0 bar
Twin port brick red body (Vectra) injectors:
- Application: Vectra B, Astra, Omega with x18xe & x20xev engines (1995-2002)
- GM part no: GM 90501588
- Siemens OEM part no: 5WK90761
- Flow: 250cc @ 3.0 bar
- Impedance: High (14.2 – 15.3 Ohm)
- Good for 343hp @ 3.0 bar
The Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors flow 208.9cc @ 3.0 bar which is actually a lot closer to the 200cc the Lucas injectors, theoretically this makes them a better match than the bigger 250cc Vectra injectors that themselves definitely worked just fine in my 4.0HC anyway. The Vectra injectors flow 20% more fuel than the original Lucas injectors while the 208.9cc Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors flow 5% more, which in truth makes them pretty much perfectly sized for any standard 4.0 litre, 4.5 litre and I'd say will still work just fine in a 5.0 litre too as they are still bigger than what TVR used on the mighty five litre Chims & Griffs.
While they are smaller than the Vectra injectors the Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors are still going to flow 5% more fuel at the top end than the standard Lucas injectors which are known to struggle in tuned 5.0 litre TVRs pushing 300hp plus. If you up the fuel pressure by 15% to 3.0 bar the grey body Bosch 0 280 156 045 injectors are good to 315hp making them ideal for anything from a bog standard 4.0 to a moderately tuned normally aspirated 5.0 litre, what you get is significantly superior atomisation in an injector that's light years better than your ancient old Lucas disc types.
I really can't be any more detailed than that.
VerySideways said:
Just a quick question, does anyone know if there is a higher flow rate version of the Bosch injectors available which are also a direct replacement for the old Lucas units?
My understanding is that the Lucas units are pretty close to full duty on the 5.0 cars, which i presume means the Bosch units would be also?
Thanks in advance.
Theres a large range of different capacity injectors thay will physically fit. Not sure how big you can go with out a remap though. My understanding is that the Lucas units are pretty close to full duty on the 5.0 cars, which i presume means the Bosch units would be also?
Thanks in advance.
I'm using these 315cc (30lb) Bosch injectors, remapped with megasquirt.
ChimpOnGas,
Thanks for the summary but i had already understood all of that having read and re-read the thread a few times.
But i was asking specifically for something like the Bosch injectors rather than the Vectra ones.
My 500 is running well at 302bhp and 360lbft with 14CUX but i am planning to switch to an aftermarket ECU in the coming months, and thought this would be a good opportunity to switch the injectors for brand new high quality items which can be mapped as part of the switchover process and will run at lower duty cycle. The intention of the new ECU is reliability and drivability, i'm not interested in changing the performance of the car. Given that the old Lucas injectors are 21 years old and are an obsolete design, i'd rather not switch them for used (albeit refurbished) Vectra injectors if there was a brand new and high quality equivalent available... like these:
Thanks for the summary but i had already understood all of that having read and re-read the thread a few times.
But i was asking specifically for something like the Bosch injectors rather than the Vectra ones.
My 500 is running well at 302bhp and 360lbft with 14CUX but i am planning to switch to an aftermarket ECU in the coming months, and thought this would be a good opportunity to switch the injectors for brand new high quality items which can be mapped as part of the switchover process and will run at lower duty cycle. The intention of the new ECU is reliability and drivability, i'm not interested in changing the performance of the car. Given that the old Lucas injectors are 21 years old and are an obsolete design, i'd rather not switch them for used (albeit refurbished) Vectra injectors if there was a brand new and high quality equivalent available... like these:
angus337 said:
Theres a large range of different capacity injectors thay will physically fit. Not sure how big you can go with out a remap though.
I'm using these 315cc (30lb) Bosch injectors, remapped with megasquirt.
Thanks Angus337, exactly the sort of info i was looking for. I'm using these 315cc (30lb) Bosch injectors, remapped with megasquirt.
VerySideways said:
ChimpOnGas,
Thanks for the summary but i had already understood all of that having read and re-read the thread a few times.
But i was asking specifically for something like the Bosch injectors rather than the Vectra ones.
My 500 is running well at 302bhp and 360lbft with 14CUX but i am planning to switch to an aftermarket ECU in the coming months, and thought this would be a good opportunity to switch the injectors for brand new high quality items which can be mapped as part of the switchover process and will run at lower duty cycle. The intention of the new ECU is reliability and drivability, i'm not interested in changing the performance of the car. Given that the old Lucas injectors are 21 years old and are an obsolete design, i'd rather not switch them for used (albeit refurbished) Vectra injectors if there was a brand new and high quality equivalent available... like these:
Just checked some old logs, The last time I had the car on the rollers peak Duty Cycle was 79%, this was with the standard pressure regulator. Thanks for the summary but i had already understood all of that having read and re-read the thread a few times.
But i was asking specifically for something like the Bosch injectors rather than the Vectra ones.
My 500 is running well at 302bhp and 360lbft with 14CUX but i am planning to switch to an aftermarket ECU in the coming months, and thought this would be a good opportunity to switch the injectors for brand new high quality items which can be mapped as part of the switchover process and will run at lower duty cycle. The intention of the new ECU is reliability and drivability, i'm not interested in changing the performance of the car. Given that the old Lucas injectors are 21 years old and are an obsolete design, i'd rather not switch them for used (albeit refurbished) Vectra injectors if there was a brand new and high quality equivalent available... like these:
angus337 said:
Theres a large range of different capacity injectors thay will physically fit. Not sure how big you can go with out a remap though.
I'm using these 315cc (30lb) Bosch injectors, remapped with megasquirt.
Thanks Angus337, exactly the sort of info i was looking for. I'm using these 315cc (30lb) Bosch injectors, remapped with megasquirt.
I've since fitted an adjustable regulator and increased the pressure slightly. The peak Duty cycle from recent logs is about 65%, although this wasn't quite at full load.
Note, Allowing for injector dead time the maximum acceptable duty cycle at 6200 RPM is about 84%
Edited by angus337 on Wednesday 19th August 14:28
Atomising the fuel air mix must be the single greatest thing you can improve apon with better spray pattern injectors.
I was once told it’s better to have them working close to max capacity on full load as most the time you will be employing far less of their capacity so keeping a good spray pattern as it hits the incoming air at lower revs is important.
I’ve got one of the Dom engines which on the surface should not be very quick but sort of is. Full of torque at 350 and about the same 300 Hp using very standard heads and intake system incl 38 mm trumpets. Interestingly I’m not sure what my injectors are and rumour has it they are off a speed six engine?
I really should go visit it and do some work So I’ll pull an injector as I’d like to identify them? All I know is since thise went in with the MBE ignition and remapped fuelling its so economical for an engine with such power and revs like a banshee, it’s just crisp as fook at any revs so I’ve always thought the injectors must be improving the spray pattern.
Hmm,
Any ideas what speed six original injectors were or what are now used to replace them before I go off and ask on the other speed six related dreaded forums
. If the average speed six has 340 hp then they can easily cope with my 300 hp. It’s possible the better spray pattern and ignition control has improved my torque curve by a fair bit from standard as its very torquey for a 450 
I was once told it’s better to have them working close to max capacity on full load as most the time you will be employing far less of their capacity so keeping a good spray pattern as it hits the incoming air at lower revs is important.
I’ve got one of the Dom engines which on the surface should not be very quick but sort of is. Full of torque at 350 and about the same 300 Hp using very standard heads and intake system incl 38 mm trumpets. Interestingly I’m not sure what my injectors are and rumour has it they are off a speed six engine?
I really should go visit it and do some work So I’ll pull an injector as I’d like to identify them? All I know is since thise went in with the MBE ignition and remapped fuelling its so economical for an engine with such power and revs like a banshee, it’s just crisp as fook at any revs so I’ve always thought the injectors must be improving the spray pattern.
Hmm,
Any ideas what speed six original injectors were or what are now used to replace them before I go off and ask on the other speed six related dreaded forums
. If the average speed six has 340 hp then they can easily cope with my 300 hp. It’s possible the better spray pattern and ignition control has improved my torque curve by a fair bit from standard as its very torquey for a 450 combine04 said:
Quoting ChimpOnGas’ original post re the Vauxhall Omega injectors update chap. Sorry to cause confusion.
I've just ordered a set of 8 of the Volvo T5 ones (brand new Bosch) from Autodoc (thanks to you for pointing out the price reduction!) ready for my conversion in February.They're not super fast on delivery but I've never had any issues with them or products from them. They've always been good value for German brand brake components. Injectors look genuine and have holograms on the packaging I suppose they too could be forged but I'm pretty sure they're legit.
indigochim said:
They're not super fast on delivery but I've never had any issues with them or products from them. They've always been good value for German brand brake components. Injectors look genuine and have holograms on the packaging I suppose they too could be forged but I'm pretty sure they're legit.
Ordered mine on Black Friday and they arrived today.Pink_Floyd said:
indigochim said:
They're not super fast on delivery but I've never had any issues with them or products from them. They've always been good value for German brand brake components. Injectors look genuine and have holograms on the packaging I suppose they too could be forged but I'm pretty sure they're legit.
Ordered mine on Black Friday and they arrived today.Just a quick question.
I understand no remapping is required using using 14CUX but how about timing adjustments.
Is it necessary to back of advance a couple of degrees due to a quicker burn from the better atomization ?
.. and by the way Autodoc site is selling the 0208 156 045 for €280 in Italy.
I understand no remapping is required using using 14CUX but how about timing adjustments.
Is it necessary to back of advance a couple of degrees due to a quicker burn from the better atomization ?
.. and by the way Autodoc site is selling the 0208 156 045 for €280 in Italy.
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