Injector Upgrades - The Vectra Injector Mod is Dead!

[Classic Chim]

Italian450 said:

Just a quick question.

I understand no remapping is required using using 14CUX but how about timing adjustments.
Is it necessary to back of advance a couple of degrees due to a quicker burn from the better atomization ?

.. and by the way Autodoc site is selling the 0208 156 045 for €280 in Italy.

No. Max advance is only about 28 degrees with distributor so unless it’s wildly out then no.

[spitfire4v8]

It was said that as part of fitting finer mist injectors that a power increase was found by retarding the ignition from the initial lucas injector timing setting .. it was said that this proves the smaller droplets are burning faster and raising cylinder pressures faster, so you need to initiate the burn later.

It was also said that anyone who wasn't capable of recreating this effect wasn't doing the experiment correctly ...

[Italian450]

Been reading and Youtubing.... the idea is to move from EV1 injectors to the EV6 4 hole injectors as I read from the great and very informative post of ChimpOnGas.

Any thoughts on Bosch EV14 ?
Are there equivalent injectors available?
Pro’s &Cons?

[Jobster]

8 bosch injectors (0280 156 045, made in Brazil) and a fuel pump (Bosch) arrived today. Now to find some time to drive the tank empty. Anyone a step-by-step guide for the injectors? Looks pretty straight forward though.

[ez64]

Jobster said:

8 bosch injectors (0280 156 045, made in Brazil) and a fuel pump (Bosch) arrived today. Now to find some time to drive the tank empty. Anyone a step-by-step guide for the injectors? Looks pretty straight forward though.

I'll post up the pictures tomorrow but I've just done exactly this. Get some fuel line and clips to replace the small section of hose attached to the fuel rail other than that it was as follows,

Use the Schrader valve to release pressure in the rail, mine had none.
Remove intake plenum with Idle valve attached and throttle cable\assembly attached move to one side. (I bent the wiper rain guard thing upwards without damaging)
Undo the bolts on the trumpet plate
Wiggle the trumpet plate base with a breaker bar gently to break free from the intake manifold or whack with a rubber mallet
Remove injector electrical plugs
soak in silicone lube fuel rail nuts if rusty and remove
I sprayed some silicone lube in the injector input/output sections to try and free them up a tad
wiggle fuel rail with breaker bar gently as to not bend at each injector hole section to free up the injector rail from the inlet manifold\injectors
re-assemble and reverse, I found my rail was rusty so needed a clean and a paint.

You maybe able to do this without removing the trumpet base but I couldn't see the clearance.

[blitzracing]

Just be careful with the silicone lube, it contaminates lambda probes. Its better with mineral oil based stuff.

[Jobster]

Quit a difference ....... Refitting was not easy either. Anyway. Almost sorted. Is there anything special I need to do to get the fuel rail filled and on pressure again? Or just have the engine turn over until it picks up?

Edited by Jobster on Saturday 2nd January 19:01

[Zener]

Refitting fuel inj's is a doddle if you dont clip them into the rail 1st (lube O rings with Vaseline etc) you slide all 8 inj right up into the fuel rail then position rail on to inlet manifold on to all 4 studs and systematically pull each inj down into each inlet port and finally locate clip into fuel rail and inj retaining groove and tighten 4 fuel rail nuts , fuel rail will prime on ign key on , check for leaks and you done

[Jobster]

Zener said:

Refitting fuel inj's is a doddle if you dont clip them into the rail 1st (lube O rings with Vaseline etc) you slide all 8 inj right up into the fuel rail then position rail on to inlet manifold on to all 4 studs and systematically pull each inj down into each inlet port and finally locate clip into fuel rail and inj retaining groove and tighten 4 fuel rail nuts , fuel rail will prime on ign key on , check for leaks and you done

thans Zener. However, refitting was a PITA. Tried as per your suggestion which I had read somewhere else. But it looked as if the whole fuel rail was slightly twisted. And when fitted they seemed sorter than the original ones (which they aren't) and did not slide all the way in into the inlets. Weird stuff. Will have another look tomorrow and possible reassemble.

[angus337]

Check the fuel rail clip is in the correct groove. It should locate in to top groove, not the lower one. I made this mistake, and had an air leak into cylinder 8, due to the O ring not sealing correctly at the manifold. This resulted in the engine running on 7 cylinders at idle.

I wasnt aware of the leak and mapped round it so the other cylinders ended up running rich to compensate. The car ran fine at load but was a terrible at idle and low load. Its sorted now and runs perfectly.

If you have an IR thermometer I would recommend checking the temperature on each exhaust outlet after starting up to check all cylinders are firing correctly.

[angus337]

Pic from previous thread. Thanks again Simon (Zener) for your help.

Edited by angus337 on Saturday 2nd January 23:11

[Zener]

Your welcome chaps

[Jobster]

Oh no...

[Jobster]

Sunday update:

Starts: yes
Steady idle: yes
Leaks: no
Steady under load: yes
Runs like a charm and all cylinders: yes
Transforms the car: minor but noticeable. Overall much livelier when the loud-pedal is touched
Recommended: yes
Happy: yes

Next step: fuel pump

[ez64]

I only had one clip slot on my EV6 units at the top but worth knowing about that extra slot option. Here's the pictures from mine in case it helps anyone else and the state of the old injectors.

Edited by ez64 on Sunday 3rd January 20:25

[MikeE]

I’ve downloaded the Autodoc App and about to buy the recommended Bosch injectors for £238 which seems a bargain.

However I’ve just had a last minute worry. My Griff is a Pre-cat so no lambda sensors, how does the standard ÉCU know that the injectors are flowing more and therefore adjust the air/fuel mix?

[davep]

MikeE said:

I’ve downloaded the Autodoc App and about to buy the recommended Bosch injectors for £238 which seems a bargain.

However I’ve just had a last minute worry. My Griff is a Pre-cat so no lambda sensors, how does the standard ÉCU know that the injectors are flowing more and therefore adjust the air/fuel mix?

It doesn't. If fuel flow rates are a worry when changing injectors, disc to pintle, you'll need to get the ECU (Map 2) remapped.

[blitzracing]

May be of interest:

https://www.facebook.com/commerce/products/4132544...

[Zener]

They look like Siemens 240cc 1588/GM inj's I have a set of these that were serviced not too long before removal (went to new old stock bigger Bosch/BMW inj's) for future mods

[Italian450]

Hi Guy's some help and ideas please,

I made the transplant yesterday from standard Injectors to the Bosch 0 280 156 045's. No problem nice and easy no issues with fitting etc.
Checked the fuel pressure and noted that instead of holding steady at 34 psi after switching on the ignition it dropped immediately steadily to zero.
This did not happen before the switch of the injectors.

Holding faith and thinking this was just due to an air bubble after emptying the fuel rail - I started up the car.
Perfect went like a dream except a MIL waring from throttle pot and fuel temp sensor - a quick reste with Rover Gauge and away.

The car idled perfectly just over 1000 on cold and dropped to 850 ish as it warmed up.
Blipping the throttle was all good and the lambda trims in Rover Gauge were good.

Road test !!!!!

Went out with a smile and after 500 metres the car lost all power would idle badly but nothing more - pops a little if I tried to accelerate - short tow home :-(
Car still starts and idles but pops if I open the throttle.

Before I pull everything apart again does any one have any suggestions please ?