Injector Upgrades - The Vectra Injector Mod is Dead!
Discussion
Italian450 said:
Hi Guy's some help and ideas please,
I made the transplant yesterday from standard Injectors to the Bosch 0 280 156 045's. No problem nice and easy no issues with fitting etc.
Checked the fuel pressure and noted that instead of holding steady at 34 psi after switching on the ignition it dropped immediately steadily to zero.
This did not happen before the switch of the injectors.
Holding faith and thinking this was just due to an air bubble after emptying the fuel rail - I started up the car.
Perfect went like a dream except a MIL waring from throttle pot and fuel temp sensor - a quick reste with Rover Gauge and away.
The car idled perfectly just over 1000 on cold and dropped to 850 ish as it warmed up.
Blipping the throttle was all good and the lambda trims in Rover Gauge were good.
Road test !!!!!
Went out with a smile and after 500 metres the car lost all power would idle badly but nothing more - pops a little if I tried to accelerate - short tow home :-(
Car still starts and idles but pops if I open the throttle.
Before I pull everything apart again does any one have any suggestions please ?
With the immobiliser disengaged & the ignition to position 2 use rover gauge to watch the throttle pot sensor smoothly going up and down 11%-100% as you move the throttle. I had a similar symptom and it was the wiring for the throttle pot sensor that needed cutting out a small section & replacing. I made the transplant yesterday from standard Injectors to the Bosch 0 280 156 045's. No problem nice and easy no issues with fitting etc.
Checked the fuel pressure and noted that instead of holding steady at 34 psi after switching on the ignition it dropped immediately steadily to zero.
This did not happen before the switch of the injectors.
Holding faith and thinking this was just due to an air bubble after emptying the fuel rail - I started up the car.
Perfect went like a dream except a MIL waring from throttle pot and fuel temp sensor - a quick reste with Rover Gauge and away.
The car idled perfectly just over 1000 on cold and dropped to 850 ish as it warmed up.
Blipping the throttle was all good and the lambda trims in Rover Gauge were good.
Road test !!!!!
Went out with a smile and after 500 metres the car lost all power would idle badly but nothing more - pops a little if I tried to accelerate - short tow home :-(
Car still starts and idles but pops if I open the throttle.
Before I pull everything apart again does any one have any suggestions please ?
Also make sure the vac advance line and the small vacuum line at the back of the throttle body is still attached (one that runs from the fuel pressure regulator to the backside of the plenum cover. Other than that I would be looking to reseat\wiggle all the injectors with the fuel rail loose to make sure it's not a sealing problem between either end of the injectors.
Edited by ez64 on Sunday 14th February 13:49
Hi Mark - thanks for weighing-in - appreciate any insight you might have.
In fact I was also pondering that it might not be directly related to the injectors ...
Car ran very well for about 10-15 minutes after the swap and fuel pressure is good - then all of a sudden hardly able to idle and will take no load what so ever.
Before the problem:
- Lambda short term trims were good with minor adjustments showing.
- Injector duty rates were low 10-14% and picking up to c 30% when revving in the drive.
- TPS was showing movement as expected as was MAF
- I have no MIL warnings other than TPS and Fuel temp (these were disconnected when I took out the fuel rail) which were reset
After the event fuel pressure was good, TPS as stated before was showing 5% to 95%.
- Old injectors back in - car barely idles will not rev or take any load - just like with the new ones
- MIL TPS warning reset but OK after that - the sensor was disconnected again
- Normal TPS response in Rover Gauge
I have checked all tubes to plenum are connected and tight - I fitted a plenum gasket (found this on ebay seemed nicer than silicone gasket) but did not change the plenum base heat shield gasket, this was new a year or so ago (2500 miles).
I have not checked the MAF since and it was not disconnected.
The car shows symptoms of misfiring or mistiming.....and I am wondering if it is connected to fuelling ?
Could this be a symptom of say a blown ignition amplifier ?
I haven't had time to check the ignition basics yet.
In fact I was also pondering that it might not be directly related to the injectors ...
Car ran very well for about 10-15 minutes after the swap and fuel pressure is good - then all of a sudden hardly able to idle and will take no load what so ever.
Before the problem:
- Lambda short term trims were good with minor adjustments showing.
- Injector duty rates were low 10-14% and picking up to c 30% when revving in the drive.
- TPS was showing movement as expected as was MAF
- I have no MIL warnings other than TPS and Fuel temp (these were disconnected when I took out the fuel rail) which were reset
After the event fuel pressure was good, TPS as stated before was showing 5% to 95%.
- Old injectors back in - car barely idles will not rev or take any load - just like with the new ones
- MIL TPS warning reset but OK after that - the sensor was disconnected again
- Normal TPS response in Rover Gauge
I have checked all tubes to plenum are connected and tight - I fitted a plenum gasket (found this on ebay seemed nicer than silicone gasket) but did not change the plenum base heat shield gasket, this was new a year or so ago (2500 miles).
I have not checked the MAF since and it was not disconnected.
The car shows symptoms of misfiring or mistiming.....and I am wondering if it is connected to fuelling ?
Could this be a symptom of say a blown ignition amplifier ?
I haven't had time to check the ignition basics yet.
What are the short term fuel trims doing when it goes wrong? If you have a bad misfire they can show high adding fuel. If you think the amp is playing up, pop a strobe on the HT lead and check its flashing evenly- also check the rev counter- it will drop rapidly to zero or be erratic if the amp is misfiring.
Something like this happened to mine just after a body off restoration and having changed lots of parts in the engine.
We were disgusted and it was just the plug extenders, if you still have them, try without.
Cold the car was running fine, once a bit warm it was pop and bangs, erratic idle...
We were disgusted and it was just the plug extenders, if you still have them, try without.
Cold the car was running fine, once a bit warm it was pop and bangs, erratic idle...
Hi Guys
I checked all connections- seemed ok.
Fuel lines set up correctly.
Rover gauge showed short term lambdas on + 100%
Tried to test for voltage on the MAF could not get a result.
Thought I was doing this wrong as RG showed some small movements.
Anyway disconnected the MAF and the engine stated and revved normally again.
So off to order a new MAF and in the meantime I will re insert the new Bosch injectors.
Thanks for all kind suggestions and moral support.
I checked all connections- seemed ok.
Fuel lines set up correctly.
Rover gauge showed short term lambdas on + 100%
Tried to test for voltage on the MAF could not get a result.
Thought I was doing this wrong as RG showed some small movements.
Anyway disconnected the MAF and the engine stated and revved normally again.
So off to order a new MAF and in the meantime I will re insert the new Bosch injectors.
Thanks for all kind suggestions and moral support.
Thanks to Mark Adams of Tornado systems for this:
Peel back the rubber boot on the airflow meter connector and leave it plugged in to the airflow meter. Set up the digital multimeter to read voltage. Insert the negative probe into the Red/Black wire (sensor ground), and the positive into the Blue/Green wire (Airflow signal).
Turn on the ignition, but do not start the engine. The meter should immediately indicate a reading of approximately 0.3-0.34 Volts after the initial "warm up" spike. Most defective airflow meters will overshoot to 0.8 Volts or higher, and take at least 2 seconds to come down to the correct voltage.
Now start the engine, and the reading should rise to 1.6 Volts (3.5 Litre engine) to 1.75 Volts (5.0 Litre engine).
The next test is full load, and as with the fuel pressure test it will require use of a rolling road or a steep hill in the same manner. Under full load the voltage should rise to 4.45 Volts (3.5 Litre engine) to 4.95 Volts (5.0 Litre engine).
On non catalyst systems, the idle CO mixture adjuster is provided on the airflow meter. It is located in a boss on the top of the airflow meter, pointing towards the engine. Leaving the multimeter negative probe in the Red/Black wire, move the positive probe to the Blue/Red wire.
Now turn on the ignition but do not start the engine. Observe the voltage. The normal adjustment range is between 0.0 and 3.6 Volts, with the higher Voltages producing higher idle CO values. There are approximately 20 turns of the adjuster screw to cover the entire range.
Annoyingly, the adjustment may be clockwise or anti-clockwise to increase the value, and this varies from meter to meter! For this reason it is always preferable to have the multimeter connected in this manner when adjusting idle CO, so that you see can something is actually happening.
Typical Voltages that would be found at this point are between 0.9 to 1.4 Volts for non-catalyst cars. This Voltage is always factory pre-set to 1.8 Volts for catalyst vehicles. A value near to 3.5 Volts will generally produce an idle CO value of 9-10%. These Voltages may be used as safe initial values particularly if no CO measuring equipment is available.
Peel back the rubber boot on the airflow meter connector and leave it plugged in to the airflow meter. Set up the digital multimeter to read voltage. Insert the negative probe into the Red/Black wire (sensor ground), and the positive into the Blue/Green wire (Airflow signal).
Turn on the ignition, but do not start the engine. The meter should immediately indicate a reading of approximately 0.3-0.34 Volts after the initial "warm up" spike. Most defective airflow meters will overshoot to 0.8 Volts or higher, and take at least 2 seconds to come down to the correct voltage.
Now start the engine, and the reading should rise to 1.6 Volts (3.5 Litre engine) to 1.75 Volts (5.0 Litre engine).
The next test is full load, and as with the fuel pressure test it will require use of a rolling road or a steep hill in the same manner. Under full load the voltage should rise to 4.45 Volts (3.5 Litre engine) to 4.95 Volts (5.0 Litre engine).
On non catalyst systems, the idle CO mixture adjuster is provided on the airflow meter. It is located in a boss on the top of the airflow meter, pointing towards the engine. Leaving the multimeter negative probe in the Red/Black wire, move the positive probe to the Blue/Red wire.
Now turn on the ignition but do not start the engine. Observe the voltage. The normal adjustment range is between 0.0 and 3.6 Volts, with the higher Voltages producing higher idle CO values. There are approximately 20 turns of the adjuster screw to cover the entire range.
Annoyingly, the adjustment may be clockwise or anti-clockwise to increase the value, and this varies from meter to meter! For this reason it is always preferable to have the multimeter connected in this manner when adjusting idle CO, so that you see can something is actually happening.
Typical Voltages that would be found at this point are between 0.9 to 1.4 Volts for non-catalyst cars. This Voltage is always factory pre-set to 1.8 Volts for catalyst vehicles. A value near to 3.5 Volts will generally produce an idle CO value of 9-10%. These Voltages may be used as safe initial values particularly if no CO measuring equipment is available.
Hi Italian,
I had similar problems after changing the injectors :-(
The first 3-5 Km were great, but then terrible to drive - no power ....
I thought, this must be the new injectors, but my mechanic told me the CO measurement is ok!
Then he made some "tests":
- disconnected the AFM and drove ... worse than before
- disconnected the water temp sensor (ECU) ... wow, much better than before :-)
I made in the meantime a test drive of 200 Km - with a new sensor - without any problems.
These injectors are ok and really an improvement.
Greetings from the deep South of Germany ;-)
I had similar problems after changing the injectors :-(
The first 3-5 Km were great, but then terrible to drive - no power ....
I thought, this must be the new injectors, but my mechanic told me the CO measurement is ok!
Then he made some "tests":
- disconnected the AFM and drove ... worse than before
- disconnected the water temp sensor (ECU) ... wow, much better than before :-)
I made in the meantime a test drive of 200 Km - with a new sensor - without any problems.
These injectors are ok and really an improvement.
Greetings from the deep South of Germany ;-)
I've just fitted these injectors and now it massively over fuels and will only start from cold for 30 seconds then dies. It will start with my foot on the floor but will only just idle. Eventually it'll sluggishly start to rev and then pick up and rev quickly but won't idle and then won't restart. It seems if I remove stepper and leave it open to atmosphere, open the idle screw all the way out it will just about maintain an idle but isnt happy and the garage stinks of unburnt fuel. So I think I've narrowed it down to not enough air to the fuel mix.
Hi Bavaria - thanks for your input.
Weird stuff happening sensors blowing up after swapping out the old injectors.
StuVT yours appears to be the opposite of mine it seems I had little fuel as in rover gauge the short term lambdas were adding fuel at 100%.
No smell of un burnt fuel over here in Italy.
Steve_D kindly posted above about a potential short on the no 2 injector causing the injectors to block open on the right bank - the coil mounting bracket is very close ........
My new MAF arrived from Racing Green today so I will be trying again over the week end fingers crossed!
Weird stuff happening sensors blowing up after swapping out the old injectors.
StuVT yours appears to be the opposite of mine it seems I had little fuel as in rover gauge the short term lambdas were adding fuel at 100%.
No smell of un burnt fuel over here in Italy.
Steve_D kindly posted above about a potential short on the no 2 injector causing the injectors to block open on the right bank - the coil mounting bracket is very close ........
My new MAF arrived from Racing Green today so I will be trying again over the week end fingers crossed!
So new injectors and new MAF on board.
Starts and runs well so far.... did this last time too!
Will take it out for a longer test soon.
So far short term lambda’s showing little adjustment.
Long term -20 and - 70 %.
Will keep an eye on this going forward.
I will update after a long run.
Thanks to all for suggestions and support.
Andy
Starts and runs well so far.... did this last time too!
Will take it out for a longer test soon.
So far short term lambda’s showing little adjustment.
Long term -20 and - 70 %.
Will keep an eye on this going forward.
I will update after a long run.
Thanks to all for suggestions and support.
Andy
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