Outrigger replacement blog

[brownspeed]

Great work so far there fella! I'm impressed on how you used the templates to set the profiles up. #genius!

[Steve_D]

I'm impressed with your fabrication but as you agree welding up there is a challenge. This is why we don't offer body lift outriggers any more. We would do the work, have a mare trying to get the welding neat then go home completely dissatisfied with the whole job. Plus sending the car out with the rest of the chassis and suspension looking very secondhand and expecting the customer to be impressed with your work.

Steve

[Classic Chim]

Doing the welds above the floor plates looks a nightmare.
It almost looks easier to just lift the body off in the longer run.

After making up a set of riggers and the time/ cost involved using someone else to weld It all together I concluded I wish I’d just bought a set of riggers that come basically pre made and then spent a lot less time welding them on.
It’s still cheaper to make them but a lot of aggro.
Fabrication skills are top draw

[Strudul]

Day 7

• Tweaked N/S about to get it lined up
• Cut out O/S rigger seatbelt mount hole (finally)
• Cleaned up O/S welds
• Stuck my knuckle in the flap disc
• Cleaned out my knuckle with TCP, superglued it together, scoffed a mince pie while it dried, then went back to the garage
• More N/S rigger tweaking
• Tacked all N/S sleeves and pipes
• Had steak for tea then spent the rest of the evening in A&E

Notes:

• Don't stick your fingers near the spinny bit of your grinder
• N/S front / rear lateral pipes needed ratchet straps to pull them longitudinally into position

Next steps:

• Measure up and trim out for the N/S rigger seatbelt mount
• Weld in both rigger seatbelt mounts
• Clean up welds
• Start prepping everything for paint (stripping back old powercoat and any surface rust)
• Cut up plate for mounting points
• Clean up any bolts that are being reused
• De-pre-cat if I get chance

Bit of a slow day unfortunately as getting the N/S pipes properly lined up took forever and then lost a load of time later.
The O/S laterals just needed jacking up to get the height correct to match the reference points taken, but N/S turned out to be a pain, with the front and rear having sprung inwards as well as downwards. Ratchet straps round the pipe and suspension along with scissor jacks underneath pulled them into place, then a few tacks on the stumps and diagonals held it all, before quickly removing the straps so they didn't melt. As the diagonals weren't under any tension when tacked, they didn't move once released, and they hold the laterals solid so they can't move. Probably could have just welded in new pipe whilst everything was relaxed and the body would have still fit fine, but didn't want to risk fouling anywhere and the diagonals wouldn't have lined up properly with the centre line of the laterals, making notching it much more complex and they'd stick out a bit.


Paper templates
This was a suggestion from one of the guys in the FB group.
Here's the site


Welding
I just have to look at my toes and feel guilty when my mate complains about how awkward it is to weld. Luckily he didn't fully realise what he was getting into, but already committed

The welder kept playing up yesterday too, and then the wire ran out and we had to swap to new thicker wire that he had never used before, so took a fair bit to get it set right.

As I say, the welds are strong, some are just a bit cosmetically challenged. Plenty of nice ones though, and now it's all setup properly they are looking better.

Was going to photo the new ones and cleaned up ones, but got a bit preoccupied.

Plates will be welded in from the bottom initially. Not sure if they'll need it from the top too if it penetrates properly.? Just seam sealer on the inside edge?

Did consider pre-made riggers, but they're 10x the price, still require some ballache welds, and might need tweaking to fit properly anyway.


Plates
Had a question on method for these.

My thinking was:

• Drop the body back onto the chassis
• Put the plates in place
• Mark where they fit on the riggers
• Mark the holes from inside the car
• Take em off and pillar drill the holes
• Raise car back up (so it doesn't melt)
• Put the plates back in place on the riggers using the marks
• Tack, then weld up
• Drop it back down and check bolts go in

Flap disc 1, finger 0

[Classic Chim]

You are better off leaving the holes un drilled until the body is physically back on for good imho but Seats do need to be removed I think to get decent access for drilling but that only takes 10 minutes anyway.
While your talking about the body bolt positions a tip for when you finally drop body on for good is to run a bead of mastic around said holes, leave to go off for 15 mins so when you put body back down you are creating a nice seal between the floor holes and those bolts. It’s a major area of leakage into the car from my experience of wet carpets.
It’s something as a commercial window fixer I did on thousands of bolts. It works and lasts decades.

I think the welds on the inside of the plates are more to close off what is a water/ crud trap point rather than add any extra strength so the seam sealer is a defo and Tvr should have used it all along!

Your moving along at a pace though, it took way more time thinking about it than doing it I found

Edited by Classic Chim on Friday 23 October 08:43

Edited by Classic Chim on Friday 23 October 08:47

Edited by Classic Chim on Friday 23 October 11:15

[rev-erend]

Steve_D said:

I'm impressed with your fabrication but as you agree welding up there is a challenge. This is why we don't offer body lift outriggers any more. We would do the work, have a mare trying to get the welding neat then go home completely dissatisfied with the whole job. Plus sending the car out with the rest of the chassis and suspension looking very secondhand and expecting the customer to be impressed with your work.

Steve

Totally agree with this.

Welding with a minor body lift is just really difficult and results in a weld that may be strong but does not always look so great.

I ended up turning down the wire feed speed to get a better result, as you just end up wedged up into the most awkward space
to be able to see what you are welding. Some spaces were so small I had to abandon my usual welding helmet and use gas goggles
with shade 10 lens and factor 50 on my face to stop getting sunburnt.

Not sure how the seatbelts mount in the Chim / Griff but the wedge has a threaded nut on the central tube and I had to tap mine
to make sure the new bolt went in OK. Was not M10.

[Strudul]

Day 8

• All pipes (O/S and N/S) fully welded up
• Seatbelt mounts welded in
• Welds mostly cleaned up
• Started stripping old powdercoat from chassis
• Made some templates for gussets

Notes:

• Gonna wait til body dropped before cutting out gussets to check measurements
• Only partially repainting the chassis. Most of it looks alright, so just hitting any problem areas now (riggers, some engine bay bits, lower spine) as I'm on a deadline and will the sort all the suspension bits over winter hopefully

Next steps:

• Drop body
• Fab and markup gussets + rear seatbelt mounts
• Drill gussets + rear seatbelt mounts
• Lift body
• Weld in gussets + rear seatbelt mounts
• Finish powercoat / rust stripping and treat
• Prep and start painting?
• Clean up bolts and de-pre-cat while it dries?

rev-erend said:

Not sure how the seatbelts mount in the Chim / Griff but the wedge has a threaded nut on the central tube and I had to tap mine
to make sure the new bolt went in OK. Was not M10.

Yup, threaded tube (about the same width as the tube (1 1/2") into the outrigger with a 7/16" UNF (20 tpi). Had a pair machined, but you can buy them here and trim them down:
Racing Harness/Seat Belt Mounting Inserts, MSA Compliant 7/16" UNF x 50mm Pair


See, there are some nice looking welds


Seatbelt mount


O/S welds mostly cleaned up


N/S welded up, cleaned up, and some powercoat stripped

[Strudul]

Day 9

• More weld / chassis clean up
• Body dropped
• Gussets + rear seatbelt mounts fabbed, drilled and bolted up
• Even more chassis clean up

Notes:

• Chassis clean up takes forever

Next steps:

• Tack gussets / rear seatbelt mounts
• Lift, then finish welding of the above
• Finish chassis clean up
• Prep for paint
• Paint
• De-pre-cat while paint dries?

Shiny metal bits

[Strudul]

Day 10

• Gussets and rear seatbelt mounts welded in
• More weld clean up
• Even more chassis prep
• De-pre-cat finally done
• Cleaned up a manifold mounting face
• Bled brakes (cos why not)

Notes:

• Chassis clean up seriously takes forever
• Don't hit your remaining good hand with the hammer cos then you have two gimped hands

Next steps:

• MORE chassis prep
• Seam sealer
• Paint
• Slot manifolds
• Clean up other manifold face and the ones on the block
• Hopefully install my alternator regulator if it ever arrives (seems to be lost in the post)

I realise now that this angle doesn't actually show the pre-cats (or lack thereof), so you'll just have to take my word for it that they are no longer in there.

[Strudul]

Day 11

• Finished prep
• Painted

Next steps:

• Slot manifolds
• Clean up other manifold face and the ones on the block
• Replace alt reg
• Coolant flush

[Strudul]

Just a couple of from yesterday:

[900T-R]

Luvverly!

[Strudul]

Day 12

• Another coat of paint

Day 13

• Someone broke into my other car, stole some loose change, some trim clips, a few washers, 1 glove (of 2), and left the interior light on which has fully fubared the battery, so did a battery swap on that.

Notes:

• There were a bunch of burnt matches next to the driver's door? This some new break in technique?
• Away from the garage for a couple days, so no progress for short while

[Strudul]

Day 14 (sorta)

• Slotted manifolds
• Might clean up the manifold bolts later

Next steps:

• Reassembly

[rev-erend]

What's the idea with the slotted manifolds ?

[AceOfHearts]

rev-erend said:

What's the idea with the slotted manifolds ?

I think it is to aid fitting / removal in the future. You can use studs (or loosely thread in the bolts) into the lower holes then slide the manifold onto them. Saves trying to line up and finger the bolts in with hardly any access. I will be doing it to mine next time the manifolds are off as well

[Wacky Racer]

Strudul][b said:

Those gutters need badly cleaning out...(30 minute job....remember to cover the drain hole at the bottom of the downspout)

[Strudul]

rev-erend said:

What's the idea with the slotted manifolds ?

As Ace mentions, it means you can pre-thread your lower bolts (or studs) and just slot the manifold in place, so less faff when installing / removing. When you can only turn the bolt 1/8th of a turn before reseating the spanner, it saves a lot of time.

Wacky Racer said:

Strudul][b said:

Those gutters need badly cleaning out...(30 minute job....remember to cover the drain hole at the bottom of the downspout)

Actually it's filled with hedgehog (you can just about make it out if you zoom in, but attached a ref image below), so although they look full, there's just a thin layer of debris on top, but drainage is unaffected.

[Wacky Racer]

^^ ^^

Good man, a stitch in time saves nine.

Great thread btw, even though I don't have a TVR.

[Strudul]

Day 15 or maybe 16?

• Dropped
• Steering column reconnected, rack bolted in
• Front + rear chassis bolts in (remembering grounds)
• Block manifold faces cleaned up
• Manifolds in with new gaskets + lambdas connected
• Rad flush
• Rad connected up
• Air intake reconnected
• Fuel pump in and connected up
• Fuel tank in and connected up
• 100A fuse replaced (pointlessly)
• Centre tunnel bolts in (remembering grounds)
• Starter in and connected up
• Electrical test (with compulsory hour of investigation)
• N/S seatbelt in
• Started on O/S seatbelt (but it went bad)

Notes:

• Manifolds were still a pain, but slotting definitely helped. Initially had the bottom bolts tightened as much as possible to allow the manifolds to just squeeze in, but found the top bolts were refusing to line up properly (fouling on the gasket rather than passing through i think) no matter how much I jiggled, so had to slacken the bottom ones off to realign.
• My rad bottom hose clip chewed itself up and wouldn't tighten so had to run out and get a replacement
• Rack might not be lined up correctly as my marks rubbed off, so may have to have a play
• There are no wires going to my 100A fuse, so it appears to be redundant
• When testing the electrics, lights (head/tail/dash) + windows had stopped working. Fuses seemed fine, but pushing some of them seemed to resolve the issue , but it'd come back. After pulling the fuse box completely out found a big brown connector loose in the back of it. Then tried to check brake lights to find they no longer worked.More fuse checking continued until I remembered that you have to have the ignition of for those lights to work
• Wipers, washers, and all lights did (eventually) work though
• O/S seatbelt retractor has locked itself. No amount of persuasion, gentle or violent, seems to be releasing it. It's wound in too far really to be able to wind it in more. Tried taking it apart, but still can't seem to get it to release.

Next steps:

• Coolant in
• Test start with open manifolds (to check everything works before going further, bleed sys, clear pre-cat crap, and because it'll sound cool)
• Stick drained fuel back in
• Try fix this seatbelt retractor
• Finish off chassis bolts
• Tighten handbrake adjuster
• Stick interior back in (inc battery)
• Ditch my QR adaptor ready for MOT as it prevents use of the horn
• Tweak the geo a bit (camber is crazy at the moment, and been putting off a proper alignment)
• Wheels back on
• Drop car
• Test drive

fk this


And this

Edited by Strudul on Sunday 1st November 01:16