geordiepingu's Megasquirt Conversion Log

geordiepingu's Megasquirt Conversion Log

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geordiepingu

Original Poster:

336 posts

62 months

Sunday 13th June 2021
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Hi all,

I haven't seen many DIY conversion logs for the TVR so figured I might start my own and crosspost it between my blog, and PistonHeads, and drop a link on Facebook in the TVR groups in hope that the information helps a fellow Chim or Griff owner here. It would also be great to get comments, feedback, advice etc from those that have done it before. I'm hoping to get this completed over the next few months and hopefully have the car running on a base map around Winter time ready for a mapping session in the Spring.

Why Megasquirt?
Whilst there are some fantastic specialists who have built their conversions with previous research and development in a particular system, the Megasquirt is a more popular community globally which means typically the ECUs have more features and expandability than the traditional standalone replacements offered by specialists. Very recently they have started becoming highly regarded as affordable yet feature packed ECUs that are trusted to control various tuned motors producing silly horsepower figures. For me, this is about having the ability to tweak the car further than a simple 'drive in' and 'drive out' conversion, as a chronic fettler.
I also have a Raspberry Pi hidden in my dashboard that connects to the 14CUX via Rovergauge at present, viewable from the flip-out head unit. I'd like to retain this functionality with Tuner Studio (Megasquirt tuning software).

Why DIY rather than a drive in conversion?
I have a glutton for graft as my friends say. Hopefully this information will help somebody else convert their car to a lovely modern standalone system offering more power, better efficiency and increased reliability. I'm quite confident with DIY as I've built looms for some JDM ricebuckets in the past (namely a WRX Impreza import and a couple of MX-5s).

What will I do for the conversion?
- Fabricate various brackets and hopefully share designs here
- Create my own engine loom/wiring harness
- Modify the TVR wiring to connect to a standalone ECU
- Configure Tuner Studio on my Raspberry Pi so I can fiddle with it a bit
- Install a Wideband sensor
- Buy an 'off the shelf' Megasquirt kit to make it as simple as possible
- Find a Megasquirt mapper
- Attempt to extract as much of the 14CUX loom for ebay purposes
- Create wiring diagrams to include with the service history for my car - to help the people that end up servicing it for me
- List part numbers I buy for things like bulkhead connectors and other sundries that often get lost to the sands of time
- List the tools I use to do it!

What have I done so far?
- Set a goal of what I want to achieve from this conversion (more efficiency, better drivability and more reliability with the potential to increase power in the future)
- Purchased an MS2 kit from Phil at extraefi.co.uk with a tach adapter and 2.5m loom option
- Began design of coilpack mounting brackets to hang from the front of the plenum
- Started research of some tuners that have Rover V8 experience (wiser to do this before you invest in an ECU, but I figured my local guys could do it given they're trusted to look after Ginetta racers and look after some high horsepower turbo MX-5s and the like on MS)

Why such a long time to do it?
I have to work, sleep, drink beer and in between find time to convert an old British sports car to a standalone setup, that I also happen to want to use this summer!

I would say wish me luck but honestly I'm just determined to make it work. After going through 3 ignition amps a couple of months ago before sorting some wiring gremlins and THEN having the distributor cause havoc, I am done having this 1930s ste on my car biggrin

Classic Chim

12,424 posts

150 months

Sunday 13th June 2021
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I get the feeling this will be a roaring success.
Your Tuner isn’t AK MOTORSPORT is it?

I neatly went MS but bottled it for the MBE as it was all done in house and in one go which just seemed a more reliable option but having understood the science more since then and having recently done a body off so exposing the MBE harness ( best thing about it) It’s not rocket science and in my view modern ecu are easier to understand.
I too like the universal experience MS has gained so lots of people know how use it. I think there is bound to be an MS community online sharing allsorts of good and bad advice.

At the end of the day they all should allow you the best information to fuel the engine and advance the timing to max out returns but as you know it’s also about drivability. Getting base maps get you going then a decent tuner might have a range of maps for engine specs so in truth only then need to tweak them for your car rather than starting from scratch.
You can safely say it makes the engine feel more modern and snappy, there are no down sides to it from where I sit. If it want for its fabulous ecu I would have sold my car by now but it makes the car drive so nice I feel it’s like letting go off a gem and I’ll regret it until my licence expires.
I think you will really appreciate it and understand just how much more reliable the cars running performance will be.

Great thread and hopefully inform those who would love to trust the car more but think it’s a huge step to take.
It’s not such a huge leap but the effects are.
Good luck.





.


Edited by Classic Chim on Sunday 13th June 23:03

Belle427

9,005 posts

234 months

Monday 14th June 2021
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I've done it and enjoyed the process, feel free to ask any questions.
Loved ripping out all the old wiring and seeing new go in!
Phils base maps are not a million miles away to be fair and if you use the paid for version of tunerstudio you can auto tune the fuel table on the road which is a great feature.

Edited by Belle427 on Monday 14th June 07:50

geordiepingu

Original Poster:

336 posts

62 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Cheers gents! I’m sure I’ll have pictures and questions in no time!
Classic Chim said:
Your Tuner isn’t AK MOTORSPORT is it?
Fraza doesn’t know it yet but yep, do intend on asking him. I was going to have him do my NA8 MX-5 with a turbo ages ago until I discovered how rotten the shell actually was when fitting some Meister Rs ready for the Nurburgring, so I do owe him some time of day at least.

Belle427 said:
if you use the paid for version of tunerstudio you can auto tune the fuel table on the road which is a great feature.
Yep, definitely thinking about this to make the most of road tuning with a wide band for my chronic fettling syndrome. Might extend Phil’s kit to add a knock sensor purely for data logging purposes (perhaps useful for the thoughts of a supercharger kit in the future). The raspberry pi in the dash has a wireless keyboard that hides behind the passenger seat usually and there’s a USB extension in the footwell left empty so I can plug in a USB flash drive and data log without the need for a laptop biggrin

Smokey Boyer

509 posts

132 months

Monday 14th June 2021
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Hi,

I had a Chimaera 500 running on a megasquirt ECU. It was all installed when I got the car so cannot help too much with the installation.

Not sure where you are based but Shaun at MS2Tuning did all my mapping and helped with anything engine-related and is very well respected when it comes to Rover V8. He even repaired my ECU circuit board as the circuit for the temp sensor and fan control was faulty. It has been a few years since I sold the car but assume he is still up and running.

Mine had ford Gen 2 coil packs mounted on the block near to where the distributor would be, using what I believe is an off the shelf mount bracket from Extra EFI.

I used an innovate mtxl lambda gauge with a LSU 4.9 sensor. The car came with a innovate LC1 set up but that failed. I did experiment with the sensor in the main manifold tube before the Y piece and also the main exhaust pipe after the Y piece, but for reasons, I never resolved got poor and erratic readings with it mounted after the Y piece. It was definitely a sensor or controller issue as using one of Shaun's lambda sensors and controllers in the same mounting boss was fine.

When I got the car it had a really poorly designed air intake system using a cone filter is a box halfway along the wing, above the manifold with a large-bore flexible pipe for a cold air feed. Shaun diagnosed that the flexible pipe was collapsing on full load so the whole system was replaced with a silicone and metal custom air intake set up and a large air filter in the nose. I also moved the air temp sensor to the nose as it was previously mounted just before the plenum and recording high temps from heat soak.

Good luck with the conversion and be careful to not get too carried away tinkering with the mapping when you are up and running. It is addictive and the temptation to tweak things can lead to bigger problems. However, if you take care it can be quite an engaging experience and it taught me quite a bit. My wife did get a bit annoyed though going on my late evening 'mapping and logging' runs up and down a quiet road with a laptop on her knee.






Classic Chim

12,424 posts

150 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Fraser and AK are first class as can be displayed by their results in one make racing series.
Your on it mate thumbup

I really hope he can fit you in. Winter might be the best time to ask biggrin
The man’s a genius. Cheating bd rofl that’s a friendly term as all his prepared cars are at the front with a good driver.
I really like him and his arrow like approach. Very considered.
He mentioned an MX5 turbo car he’d built while I was at Snetterton a few years ago and how insanely fast it was.
Your in great hands there.


geordiepingu

Original Poster:

336 posts

62 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Classic Chim said:
Fraser and AK are first class as can be displayed by their results in one make racing series.
Your on it mate thumbup
I've just used your enthusiasm as a reminder to ping him a message on Facebook biggrin
Had been thinking about doing this last year but an unexpected gearbox rebuild bill got in the way!
Bonus is I'm on the Newcastle Quayside and he's in Rowlands Gill which is not far and has a few tremendous B roads on the way back to really get the 6k redline singing. I realised how spot on him and his team were when I asked them for advice on suspension geometry, learned absolutely loads and got my MX-5 to a point where I could embarrass much faster things in corners. Genius is an understatement!

Smokey Boyer said:
Good luck with the conversion and be careful to not get too carried away tinkering with the mapping when you are up and running. It is addictive and the temptation to tweak things can lead to bigger problems. However, if you take care it can be quite an engaging experience and it taught me quite a bit. My wife did get a bit annoyed though going on my late evening 'mapping and logging' runs up and down a quiet road with a laptop on her knee.
Thanks! Being hipster and all I want to keep the coilpacks above the heat as much as possible, though there is going to be a tradeoff between that and how 'off the shelf' the HT leads are. Still in the process of measuring up but we'll see how far I get along, the fabrication is enjoyable with my very basic skills in the workshop, hopefully the plans may be useful for somebody to replicate or modify to their own preference. RE: widebands, seems quite difficult to get hold of a reasonable controller at the moment. Have a conversation open with Phil as my preference is the Spartan 2 or 3 but apparently his supplier are a bit flakey on stock at the moment. In fairness there was a massive silicon shortage not too long ago - at least in the IT server world, so I imagine they may have been affected by that. AEM X series is on my radar at the moment, but will keep the Innovate MTXL in mind!

Shed TVR

138 posts

75 months

Monday 14th June 2021
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Hi,

Another DIY megasquirt user here, been running on my 450 with 2x VW coil packs for a few months now. Let me give you a few tips that should help you out:

- consider buying the premium version of tuner studio, autotune for the VE table will help you out hugely

- John Eales does a very high quality crank sensor kit, that's what I'd be going for

- Mr retro leads can help you out with HT leads, reasonably priced too

- To make the rev counter work you'll need a small adapter circuit, I believe Shaun makes these

- when you fit your wideband kit make sure the grounds are done as per the manual, i.e. the sensor should not be grounded in the same place as the heater

- you can buy a distributor blank from MSV8 https://www.megasquirt-v8.co.uk/ms_what_is_ms.php

- make sure to run a small vac line to the MAP sensor port on the megasquirt, you can tee off the small pipe behind the stepper motor

- I'd highly recommend Phil at extra efi for the DIY kit


Good luck! Oh and I'd personally use hybrid alpha N and ditch the MAF sensor, but I'm sure people have different opinions about that.

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

110 months

Monday 14th June 2021
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Has anyone got a good immobilisation map?

Wolvesboy

597 posts

142 months

Monday 14th June 2021
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What a great post.

Please detail everything as I am a complete numpty with such things as after market ECUs and fuel maps etc. A lot of the abbreviations were lost on me! I would love to know more about this stuff.

Photos and details please.

Good luck with the conversion, but reading between the lines, it seems it will be well done!

geordiepingu

Original Poster:

336 posts

62 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Shed TVR said:
Good luck! Oh and I'd personally use hybrid alpha N and ditch the MAF sensor, but I'm sure people have different opinions about that.
Thanks! Hybrid Alpha N is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned smile FWIW I think a lot of the specialists also have this opinion too, so I think it's generally quite widely regarded

angus337

620 posts

210 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
I also went down the DIY Megasquirt route, partly due to my location in Aberdeen, and lack of local specialists. I went a slightly different route, starting with a Plug 'n' play fuel only system from V8 developments, and a couple of years later added the coil pack drivers to get the full benefit of the system.

Although mine uses the original loom, and ECU plug, I ended up with a bit of a wiring mess with numerous additional joints, which caused a few issues. I ended ripping out most of the wiring in the passenger footwell to remove the unnecessary wiring and repinned the ECU plug. This was a real PITA job, so I would highly recommend fitting new loom from the start. I made up wiring diagrams at the time, so if you need help with the wiring give me a shout.

For the coil packs you can use the Gems P38 pack which fits behind the plenum and doesn’t need additional brackets making up. It’s a tight squeeze, but worth it for a tidier engine bay. There’s also premade HT leads available for this set up from Maganacore etc. although I used Morosso cut to length leads from real steel.

As per the post above I would recommend connecting the MAP senor, I only connected mine recently, but I’m now running with the multiply by MAP function activated, which has significantly improved the tuning for idle and low speed cruising. I’ve also had it running successfully on full speed density, but haven’t had chance to fully tune the fuel map at the top end in this mode.

Good luck with the installation and give me a shout if you need any help with the wiring or anything else.



Edited by angus337 on Monday 14th June 12:56


Edited by angus337 on Monday 14th June 12:58

geordiepingu

Original Poster:

336 posts

62 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Zener said:
little nugget I also use the bright shift light as a an early running hot warning too , on the gauge you may miss scratchchin ultra bright LED lamp you will not
That's a tremendous idea, I don't even know if the light works on the tacho to be fair, but saves the traffic anxiety of changing from Apple CarPlay to the Engine burp outs which turns the tunes off! Cheers!

angus337 said:
For the coil packs you can use the Gems P38 pack which fits behind the plenum and doesn’t need additional brackets making up. It’s a tight squeeze, but worth it for a tidier engine bay. There’s also premade HT leads available for this set up from Maganacore etc. although I used Morosso cut to length leads from real steel.
Good shout! Avoiding that route though as I still have PTSD from the first time I ever removed MX-5 mk1 coil packs. Yaris COP straight after! wink

Edited by geordiepingu on Monday 14th June 13:01

Classic Chim

12,424 posts

150 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
geordiepingu said:
Classic Chim said:
Fraser and AK are first class as can be displayed by their results in one make racing series.
Your on it mate thumbup
I've just used your enthusiasm as a reminder to ping him a message on Facebook biggrin
Had been thinking about doing this last year but an unexpected gearbox rebuild bill got in the way!
Bonus is I'm on the Newcastle Quayside and he's in Rowlands Gill which is not far and has a few tremendous B roads on the way back to really get the 6k redline singing. I realised how spot on him and his team were when I asked them for advice on suspension geometry, learned absolutely loads and got my MX-5 to a point where I could embarrass much faster things in corners. Genius is an understatement!

Smokey Boyer said:
Good luck with the conversion and be careful to not get too carried away tinkering with the mapping when you are up and running. It is addictive and the temptation to tweak things can lead to bigger problems. However, if you take care it can be quite an engaging experience and it taught me quite a bit. My wife did get a bit annoyed though going on my late evening 'mapping and logging' runs up and down a quiet road with a laptop on her knee.
Thanks! Being hipster and all I want to keep the coilpacks above the heat as much as possible, though there is going to be a tradeoff between that and how 'off the shelf' the HT leads are. Still in the process of measuring up but we'll see how far I get along, the fabrication is enjoyable with my very basic skills in the workshop, hopefully the plans may be useful for somebody to replicate or modify to their own preference. RE: widebands, seems quite difficult to get hold of a reasonable controller at the moment. Have a conversation open with Phil as my preference is the Spartan 2 or 3 but apparently his supplier are a bit flakey on stock at the moment. In fairness there was a massive silicon shortage not too long ago - at least in the IT server world, so I imagine they may have been affected by that. AEM X series is on my radar at the moment, but will keep the Innovate MTXL in mind!
biglaugh
Get on the blower fast as they did pretty good at the weekend with at least one driver in Ginetta GT cup who can exploit his cars abilities.
My mate was stone last but hey. rofl

Zener

18,963 posts

222 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
geordiepingu said:
Zener said:
little nugget I also use the bright shift light as a an early running hot warning too , on the gauge you may miss scratchchin ultra bright LED lamp you will not
That's a tremendous idea, I don't even know if the light works on the tacho to be fair, but saves the traffic anxiety of changing from Apple CarPlay to the Engine burp outs which turns the tunes off! Cheers!
Fit an ultra bright LED in its place you wont miss it then biggrin

Classic Chim

12,424 posts

150 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Zener said:
Fit an ultra bright LED in its place you wont miss it then biggrin
How cute is that.
MBE do the small racecar screen which is pretty good for stuff like that but not the prettiest thing.
How stealth Simon.
At the end of the day that’s great in traffic or fast paced driving.
What’s it set to if you don’t mind me asking.

Zener

18,963 posts

222 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Well I run a 75 degree stat and fans cut in at 90 so anything over 97 and its lit apart from that I only see it when I hit 6.4k RPM, engines limited to 6.7k want it to last laugh

Classic Chim

12,424 posts

150 months

Monday 14th June 2021
quotequote all
Zener said:
Well I run a 75 degree stat and fans cut in at 90 so anything over 100 and its lit apart from that I only see it when I hit 6.4k RPM engines limited to 6.7k want it to last laugh
biglaugh gems galore.
6700 no wonder you dusted me, cheating bugger thumbup

Classic Chim

12,424 posts

150 months

Wednesday 16th June 2021
quotequote all
Zener said:
It gets better laugh sorry to take off topic rolleyes
Next time I see your car I’ll ask to look under the bonnet before I commit to racing again rofl

Sexy they are no question.
And a good 10 Hp all day.

geordiepingu

Original Poster:

336 posts

62 months

Wednesday 16th June 2021
quotequote all
Update

Phil's MS2 arrived this morning. So far I have 2x VW coil packs, the ECU itself, the air temp sensor, 2x 2.5m pigtails from the ECU and the tach adapter. Still a crank sensor kit to arrive, destruction manual and still awaiting Phil's advice on stock for Spartan widebands on the off chance he can still source one, so still quite a good way off from having a complete kit.

My next step will be auditing all of the connectors in the engine bay and producing a spreadsheet of connectors for the engine loom needed and what for, so I can get them ordered. I will share finished results for anyone else playing along at home. Then I'll likely take a look at what wiring I have 'spare' from the extended looms to see if I need to order any more wire for the engine loom.

Something else I think I will do is count the pins I will need in the engine bay and start looking at bulkhead connectors. To me this seems smarter than blindly running the loom through the dash and firewall, as I can separate the engine side loom from the car very easily at that point. This presents a few advantages:

- I can build the new loom for the car while the 14cux is still in (and I can use the car!) so that installation time becomes quite 'plug and play'
- Should a wiring fault occur, I can bench test the loom with a bit more ease
- I can introduce motorsport style 'service loops' in the connectors meaning repair doesn't involve cutting and splicing - just repinning a connector usually
- Should I want to remove the engine, there's one less obstruction to doing that/simpler process to remove the wiring