Sticking the tail out
Discussion
Ok, so I've been driving my Chimaera pretty well every day now since August 02. You know how the little horns grow when you start up that V8, well I've managed to limit myself to only booting it MAJOR in straight lines so far. Mainly because I don't know what to expect when the tail pops out and am not sure whether I'll be able to hold it.
1) Say if you boot it going round a roundabout, are we talking a gradual float out or dirty great fling out. 2) If you back off the loud pedal, does it snap back in.
3) What sort of track days are open to you trying these things out, playing doughnuts etc
4) Let's hear your '1st tail out experiences
Cheers all,
Matt
1) Say if you boot it going round a roundabout, are we talking a gradual float out or dirty great fling out. 2) If you back off the loud pedal, does it snap back in.
3) What sort of track days are open to you trying these things out, playing doughnuts etc
4) Let's hear your '1st tail out experiences
Cheers all,
Matt
taylormj4, best to practice these things off the queens highway. Lots of past posts on the subject of track days etc.
My experince is that on the couple of occasions that the back end has 'done its own thing' it is very easy to bring things back under control.
That said it's all relative versus your past experience etc.
If in any doubt go careful and get some tuition.
My experince is that on the couple of occasions that the back end has 'done its own thing' it is very easy to bring things back under control.
That said it's all relative versus your past experience etc.
If in any doubt go careful and get some tuition.
Backing off is ok, but don't do what I did the first time the tail stepped out on me and snap the throttle shut by lifting off completely. Remember that there's a big ole lump under the bonnet, so engine braking may well be strong enough to break traction for you for a second time.
Totally agree with leaving this for the track, I did my first at Bedford last year and not only was it enjoyable, I learnt more about the car that day then I ever had on the public highway. Be progressive with the controls and you'd be suprised what you can do, even in the wet, without any nasty surprises.
Cheers,
Steve
Totally agree with leaving this for the track, I did my first at Bedford last year and not only was it enjoyable, I learnt more about the car that day then I ever had on the public highway. Be progressive with the controls and you'd be suprised what you can do, even in the wet, without any nasty surprises.
Cheers,
Steve
Ok, so I've been driving my Chimaera pretty well every day now since August 02. You know how the little horns grow when you start up that V8, well I've managed to limit myself to only booting it MAJOR in straight lines so far. Mainly because I don't know what to expect when the tail pops out and am not sure whether I'll be able to hold it.
1) Say if you boot it going round a roundabout, are we talking a gradual float out or dirty great fling out. 2) If you back off the loud pedal, does it snap back in.
3) What sort of track days are open to you trying these things out, playing doughnuts etc
4) Let's hear your '1st tail out experiences
Cheers all,
Matt
Do it right and the breakaway is very progressive with plenty of warning, and easy to catch. Get it wrong and react too little/too late it can go very violently. Overcorrection can make the 'rebound' much worse than the original slide. Definitely not something to practice on the public roads, and best saved for a warm dry day anyway (much easier to catch it in the dry, and you can hear from the tyres that the car is about to go).
You've had it that long and you haven't had the arse end out, you must drive like a b
y nun 
I can give you a demo if you want, I don't have many journeys without some sideways action
Power oversteer then back off
Lift off oversteer, either enjoy the ride, dip the clutch or feed in a bit of power
Best way to learn is buy a capri 2.8 when you're too young and/or stupid to realise what's going on
>> Edited by incorrigible on Friday 7th February 16:19
y nun I can give you a demo if you want, I don't have many journeys without some sideways action
Power oversteer then back off
Lift off oversteer, either enjoy the ride, dip the clutch or feed in a bit of power
Best way to learn is buy a capri 2.8 when you're too young and/or stupid to realise what's going on
>> Edited by incorrigible on Friday 7th February 16:19
hehe
if you boot it in a wet roundabout you will end up with a huge angle of attack, and have to apply lots of opposite lock, then if you back off instantly, it will (can) pop into line almost immediately, but you better be quick to get that opposite lock unwound or you'll get a huge angle in the opposite direction... "fishtailing" is the term! the resulting term is "spin" or "crash". Get on a trackday (or airfield day) and try to get the back end out at the corners... much safer to do it then.
I found it helps to always have my hands at the quarter to three position, cos then i have full control of the wheel and know which way is "up" (ie how to set the steering wheel so the wheels are pointing forwards)... or at least one hand in that position if the wheel needs turning round so much you can't realistically hold that position with both hands.
if you boot it in a wet roundabout you will end up with a huge angle of attack, and have to apply lots of opposite lock, then if you back off instantly, it will (can) pop into line almost immediately, but you better be quick to get that opposite lock unwound or you'll get a huge angle in the opposite direction... "fishtailing" is the term! the resulting term is "spin" or "crash". Get on a trackday (or airfield day) and try to get the back end out at the corners... much safer to do it then.
I found it helps to always have my hands at the quarter to three position, cos then i have full control of the wheel and know which way is "up" (ie how to set the steering wheel so the wheels are pointing forwards)... or at least one hand in that position if the wheel needs turning round so much you can't realistically hold that position with both hands.
That's not been my experience - I've found my Chimaera pretty progressive, although you need to be careful when the road is cold, wet & greasy. I would suggest you get yourself signed up for a course with 1st lotus & you will get loads of chances to test things out in the safety of a private airfield.
plotloss said: I can honestly say that when the arse goes its not what you would call 'progressive'.
Matt.
K3NJW said: Or drive every day in Milton Keynes ..... so many roundabouts, so much fun. Also I've got bald tyres which helps. I'm waiting for the weather to improve a little before making the investment in new ones.
I would get the new ones right now because the difference in grip is astonishing and may prevent you becoming another TVR insurance statistic. I try and make sure that I have new rubber on the car ready for the Winter because I want the best possible grip in the bad conditions. Driving on end of life tyres in the winter is a recipe for a big insurance claim.
I also use MK roundabouts....
Steve
'Getting the arse end out' Ahhh... the joys of TVR driving. I'm with Incorrigble on this one, hardly a journey I don't have a little bit of slip and slide at the back... why? Because its so much fun!
If your fully aware of whats going on (and you ought to be with the amount of feedback these machines give), then poking the tail out on the exit of a 2nd gear roundabout is dead easy to control. Basic method for me is late turn in, get the front end nicely tucked in and quickly but progressivly get on the gas, depending on conditions you'll feel the back end start to drift at which point you hold the gas where it is, ride the slide with just enough opposite lock and straighten up when it comes back then floor it. Rules of thumb I use are - look at the direction of travel, not where the cars pointing, and make sure you get used to the tail coming back - which it does fairly quickly. As somebody mentioned earlier the fishtail is the bit to look out for, it comes back fairly quick smart, best never to have more than an armful of opposite lock on - any arm twirling will slow you getting the lock off, besides any more than an armful and it'll probably spin anyway - there is a very defined limit to how far you can go before it spins.
If you really want to get the back end out, work up to it gradually with just a little more throttle each time on a quiet wide corner and you should be OK.
These are good handling cars - obey the slow in - fast out rule and you can't go too far wrong....
I still remember the first time I got the back end, pulling onto the 3 lane wide North circ from Finchley road in the wet, a bit more throttle than it can take and hey presto - a little opposite lock, straighten up BIG GRIN!!
Some tracks are better than others for this, Brands doesn't have any really tight bends to explore it at sane speeds, but is fantastic to drive - Graham Hill is a favourite sideways moment. Last corner at Silverstone is another particular favourite (luffield?), plenty of room, nice easy drift in 3rd around 70-80mph. Magic! Did Snetterton recently, every time exiting the chicane onto the start / finish straight 2nd gear sideways. Cool. The first corner at Bedford is quite entertaining too, about 35-40mph, big throttle in second = big sideways.
Personally I find it easier to sideways in the wet because of the lower speed and the fact that it'll go sideways so much easier, basically the suspension isn't being pushed so hard because of the lower G so is a bit better controlled.
Anyway, enough rambling about my favourite subject. Have fun, take it easy and stay safe! You've got a great car!
If your fully aware of whats going on (and you ought to be with the amount of feedback these machines give), then poking the tail out on the exit of a 2nd gear roundabout is dead easy to control. Basic method for me is late turn in, get the front end nicely tucked in and quickly but progressivly get on the gas, depending on conditions you'll feel the back end start to drift at which point you hold the gas where it is, ride the slide with just enough opposite lock and straighten up when it comes back then floor it. Rules of thumb I use are - look at the direction of travel, not where the cars pointing, and make sure you get used to the tail coming back - which it does fairly quickly. As somebody mentioned earlier the fishtail is the bit to look out for, it comes back fairly quick smart, best never to have more than an armful of opposite lock on - any arm twirling will slow you getting the lock off, besides any more than an armful and it'll probably spin anyway - there is a very defined limit to how far you can go before it spins.
If you really want to get the back end out, work up to it gradually with just a little more throttle each time on a quiet wide corner and you should be OK.
These are good handling cars - obey the slow in - fast out rule and you can't go too far wrong....
I still remember the first time I got the back end, pulling onto the 3 lane wide North circ from Finchley road in the wet, a bit more throttle than it can take and hey presto - a little opposite lock, straighten up BIG GRIN!!
Some tracks are better than others for this, Brands doesn't have any really tight bends to explore it at sane speeds, but is fantastic to drive - Graham Hill is a favourite sideways moment. Last corner at Silverstone is another particular favourite (luffield?), plenty of room, nice easy drift in 3rd around 70-80mph. Magic! Did Snetterton recently, every time exiting the chicane onto the start / finish straight 2nd gear sideways. Cool. The first corner at Bedford is quite entertaining too, about 35-40mph, big throttle in second = big sideways.
Personally I find it easier to sideways in the wet because of the lower speed and the fact that it'll go sideways so much easier, basically the suspension isn't being pushed so hard because of the lower G so is a bit better controlled.
Anyway, enough rambling about my favourite subject. Have fun, take it easy and stay safe! You've got a great car!
Oh good. It's not just me then
STEVE_HALL99 said: hardly a journey I don't have a little bit of slip and slide at the back... why? Because its so much fun!
Was a bit worried that if I came out with this, that someone would start lecturing as to how dangerous this is on the public highway
Was a bit worried that if I came out with this, that someone would start lecturing as to how dangerous this is on the public highway
It is and it is also slower, a lot slower...
The problem we have become accustomed to celebs tail outing under perfect control and think this is great... it is fun but we don't always see the outtakes where the cars have come off the track or lost it completely. They also give the impression that it is the fastest way because you are on the limit. Well every sideways moment is scrubbing off speed and slowing the car down so that Granny will now leave you standing.
Smooth is fast. Sideways is slow.
I have no problem with people getting the car sideways on the road - I make a point of doing it every safe chance I get which means a dozen times a day. But I recognise that it takes a certain amount of skill/luck to stay in control of the car, and without this it's potentially very dangerous. In any case there will always be a certain amount of danger involved. There are very few places where it's safe to lose control and if you get it wrong or anything unexpected happens there's a very real chance that this will happen. So I stick to my original advice to keep this sort of thing off public roads unless you're *really* confident, and in any case pick the time and place carefully.
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
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