Power Steering or Not??
Discussion
Currently in the process of tracking down my first TVR and have opted for a 4.0 or 4.5 Chimaera, about a 1998 version. Seen a few that I am interested in from a condition and colour perspective but a couple of them do not have power steering fitted.
Any advice on whether or not power steering is something that I really should hold out for and ignore the cars without power steering? Is there a marked difference in feedback when driving, how heavy are they when parking etc? Also a couple of dealers have offered to fit this retrospectively, good idea or not, and is £1500 the going rate for this?
This is the only question I have left to be answered and I'll hopefully be joining the TVR clan within weeks!
Any advice on whether or not power steering is something that I really should hold out for and ignore the cars without power steering? Is there a marked difference in feedback when driving, how heavy are they when parking etc? Also a couple of dealers have offered to fit this retrospectively, good idea or not, and is £1500 the going rate for this?
This is the only question I have left to be answered and I'll hopefully be joining the TVR clan within weeks!
Tech Man said: I was told its best to have no power steering for better feedback from the car, I have a 4.5 with no power sreering, its a bit hard on parking but at low speeds its fine!!
Was this by an owner of a non-PAS car by any chance?
Go try is the best advice and make your own mind up. Ignore the non-PAS is better for the feel etc as the PAS is excellent, a quicker rack and so much easier to apply lock and respond. Had both - simply wouldn't go back to a non-PAS car. Costs around £2000 to retro fit and yes makes the car easier to sell.
I would agree that PAS does tend to make the car easier to sell - particularly when the punter is someone who has never driven something with the power a TVR offers.
But from my own experience, having owned a PAS 4.0 and then a nonPAS 5.0, the nonPAS gets it every time. Yes it's harder to work into a tight parking space, but the feedback when driving is much more enjoyable. But then, PAS is really just down to personal taste. For me, the whole appeal in TVRs for me, is their rawness.
But I would suggest you test drive both - ideally in a situation where you aren't just pottering around in traffic.
But from my own experience, having owned a PAS 4.0 and then a nonPAS 5.0, the nonPAS gets it every time. Yes it's harder to work into a tight parking space, but the feedback when driving is much more enjoyable. But then, PAS is really just down to personal taste. For me, the whole appeal in TVRs for me, is their rawness.
But I would suggest you test drive both - ideally in a situation where you aren't just pottering around in traffic.
Had both with and without PAS. Good feel from both at the speed I drive - non PAS slightly better around the straight ahead position. Only big advantage with PAS is parking in tight spaces. It's a personal thing - decide on the car ignoring this fact - then try it and see if YOU think it's OK.
It wouldn't be a deciding factor for me, other things are more important (condition, mileage, service, colour combo etc.) All IMHO of course!
It wouldn't be a deciding factor for me, other things are more important (condition, mileage, service, colour combo etc.) All IMHO of course!
my first (400) had PAS, my current (500) doesn't. The 500 is easier to drive and park than my non-PAS Scirocco. My girlfriend has no problem with the 500 either.
They are cheaper without, and it can be retro-fitted, so test-drive lots and prioritise on the condition and colour combination. Then live it for a while and see how you get on... (that's what I'm doing anyway.)
They are cheaper without, and it can be retro-fitted, so test-drive lots and prioritise on the condition and colour combination. Then live it for a while and see how you get on... (that's what I'm doing anyway.)
It's like anything - I think with the 500 whether it's a Griffith or a Chimaera, you are lucky enough to get the 320 bhp. Take every car on it's own merits, sure Chimaera 4000cc sells better with pas, but take every car on it's value.
The colour, spec, condition and history are as important,if not more on some colour combinations I have recently seen (IMHO).
Ask Gerrard !! Top car top speed 167mph !!!
>> Edited by jamer on Wednesday 2nd April 12:02
The colour, spec, condition and history are as important,if not more on some colour combinations I have recently seen (IMHO).
Ask Gerrard !! Top car top speed 167mph !!!
>> Edited by jamer on Wednesday 2nd April 12:02
I own a non-pas car, so you can probably see where I going with this! Having borrowed a PAS 4.5 for 300 miles and then driven my non-PAS straight afterwards it is immediately apparent that there is more feedback to be had from the non-PAS system.
Personally, steering is the most important part of the car-driver relationship - the more communication the better! I'd say the steering is the best feature of my car in terms of handling - its lovely.
No doubt PAS equipped is easier to use for parking / town etc, but what are these cars for? Not tesco trips...
Anyway, try before you buy - I bet you love the non-PAS feel though...
Personally, steering is the most important part of the car-driver relationship - the more communication the better! I'd say the steering is the best feature of my car in terms of handling - its lovely.
No doubt PAS equipped is easier to use for parking / town etc, but what are these cars for? Not tesco trips...
Anyway, try before you buy - I bet you love the non-PAS feel though...
I'm firmly in the non-PAS camp, but I guess PAS would make the car easier to live with for general pottering about which might be important to some people. I would say the main advantage of having it, is that it makes it easier to sell the car to people who want it - its a self-fulfilling thing. The main disadvantage is that it reduces feedback through the steering, making it harder to balance the car when you're on the limit.
i have non PAS. i think reduced feel probably comes from not being used to the feel of PAS.
car will be cheaper without, but obviously cheaper when you come to sell.
i don't find it too hard to steer - and it encourages you to look after the tyres!
besides, you get muscles without it and if you don't have to worry about the missus driving it, who gives a monkey's?
find the right car, as the others say, and worry about the PAS afterwards.
car will be cheaper without, but obviously cheaper when you come to sell.
i don't find it too hard to steer - and it encourages you to look after the tyres!
besides, you get muscles without it and if you don't have to worry about the missus driving it, who gives a monkey's?
find the right car, as the others say, and worry about the PAS afterwards.
So it seems a lot of you will not be going for a Tamora/Tuscan/Cerbera/T350C which all have PAS...
You could also fit cart springs for that authentic "they don't make cars like they used to" and "the best handling car in the world was a Rolls_Carardly 5 wheeler... Stuck like glue at 25 mph round corners you know... These new fangled coiled springs are not worth it."
You could also fit cart springs for that authentic "they don't make cars like they used to" and "the best handling car in the world was a Rolls_Carardly 5 wheeler... Stuck like glue at 25 mph round corners you know... These new fangled coiled springs are not worth it."
Don't have PAS either, don't find it a problem to drive or park (and I'm no muscle-clad barbarian either; proud to be a pen-pusher, me! 
). I think the weightiness of the steering makes the driving experienced more involving and you feel alive after driving a "normal" car with all modcons around for a bit... which is why I bought the TVR in the first place.
). I think the weightiness of the steering makes the driving experienced more involving and you feel alive after driving a "normal" car with all modcons around for a bit... which is why I bought the TVR in the first place.
jamer said: It's like anything - I think with the 500 whether it's a Griffith or a Chimaera, you are lucky enough to get the 320 bhp. Take every car on it's own merits, sure Chimaera 4000cc sells better with pas, but take every car on it's value.
The colour, spec, condition and history are as important,if not more on some colour combinations I have recently seen (IMHO).
Ask Gerrard !! Top car top speed 167mph !!!
>> Edited by jamer on Wednesday 2nd April 12:02
sshhhh!!!
Thanks for this guys. Info so far is really helpful as always, especially on the PAS retro-fit option.
Dealer has already offered to drive a few back to back to help clarify my mind but there is no substitute for your experience of living with these beauties.
Any other views would be gratefully accepted? And I'll let you know what I picked.
Dealer has already offered to drive a few back to back to help clarify my mind but there is no substitute for your experience of living with these beauties.
Any other views would be gratefully accepted? And I'll let you know what I picked.
Ah but you have said youself that over the years TVR have significantly improved the PAS system, e.g. later Chimaeras and Griffiths having a more feel than early ones and now for example on the T350 it is an electrical pump as opposed to hydraulic. All I know is that when I tested cars back to back in 98 I prefered the non-PAS cars, however as you say there is only one way to find out, go test them! Rich...
shpub said: So it seems a lot of you will not be going for a Tamora/Tuscan/Cerbera/T350C which all have PAS...
The 520 has a SD1 PAS system. Still wouldn't swap it for a nampy pamby non-PAS system.
When I had Peter's V8S, a Griff 500 non PAS first time, etc I found that by the time I felt things were wrong through the steering it was too late and look for soft things time. Tend to rely a lot more on the seat of my pants for that earlier warning.
As for electric pumps being more sophisticated... all they do is provide hydaruilic pressure. It is the rack and geometry design where the clever stuff is.
When I had Peter's V8S, a Griff 500 non PAS first time, etc I found that by the time I felt things were wrong through the steering it was too late and look for soft things time. Tend to rely a lot more on the seat of my pants for that earlier warning.
As for electric pumps being more sophisticated... all they do is provide hydaruilic pressure. It is the rack and geometry design where the clever stuff is.
Yes but the point I am making is that when I mentioned that PAS Chimaeras felt like they were following the camber of the road you commented that the feel had improved on later cars, and people who have T350Cs are saying they have an impoved feel to their Tamoras, so I guess PAS is getting better. Mind you as long as you've got a few shoulder muscles I reckon non-PAS cars are fine
shpub said: The 520 has a SD1 PAS system. Still wouldn't swap it for a nampy pamby non-PAS system.
When I had Peter's V8S, a Griff 500 non PAS first time, etc I found that by the time I felt things were wrong through the steering it was too late and look for soft things time. Tend to rely a lot more on the seat of my pants for that earlier warning.
As for electric pumps being more sophisticated... all they do is provide hydaruilic pressure. It is the rack and geometry design where the clever stuff is.
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