Discussion
From what I have read too much ZDDP can cause chemical pitting of ferrous surfaces such as camshaft lobes, cause other additives to fall out of suspension, and significantly increase deposit formation on any engine. On new cars it can damage cats and O2 sensors. How much is too much all the things I read didn't really say....
So it can start to work against you
So it can start to work against you
For what its worth Daz, i wouldnt have put the additive in. I recon most modern day oils will have roughly the same zinc in and i am more than happy to run my engine on them. Having said that i cant see your engine coming to any harm in a few thousand miles before you change it again.
Modern day oils have come on a long way with improved shear strengths etc. Dom at Power gives his 100k mile warranty using Castrol GTX 10w40 semi. This says a lot.
Dont forget that Rover V8`s were eating their cams back in the 70`s, 80`s when high zddp was the norm.
If this low zinc content does turn out to be an issue its no great shakes just a weekend in the garage fitting a new cam. Time will tell..... I`m still going with the Comma 5W50 fully synthetic Motorsport.
Modern day oils have come on a long way with improved shear strengths etc. Dom at Power gives his 100k mile warranty using Castrol GTX 10w40 semi. This says a lot.
Dont forget that Rover V8`s were eating their cams back in the 70`s, 80`s when high zddp was the norm.
If this low zinc content does turn out to be an issue its no great shakes just a weekend in the garage fitting a new cam. Time will tell..... I`m still going with the Comma 5W50 fully synthetic Motorsport.
carsy said:
For what its worth Daz, i wouldnt have put the additive in. I recon most modern day oils will have roughly the same zinc in and i am more than happy to run my engine on them. Having said that i cant see your engine coming to any harm in a few thousand miles before you change it again.
Modern day oils have come on a long way with improved shear strengths etc. Dom at Power gives his 100k mile warranty using Castrol GTX 10w40 semi. This says a lot.
Dont forget that Rover V8`s were eating their cams back in the 70`s, 80`s when high zddp was the norm.
If this low zinc content does turn out to be an issue its no great shakes just a weekend in the garage fitting a new cam. Time will tell..... I`m still going with the Comma 5W50 fully synthetic Motorsport.
So many conflicting ideas ! Modern day oils have come on a long way with improved shear strengths etc. Dom at Power gives his 100k mile warranty using Castrol GTX 10w40 semi. This says a lot.
Dont forget that Rover V8`s were eating their cams back in the 70`s, 80`s when high zddp was the norm.
If this low zinc content does turn out to be an issue its no great shakes just a weekend in the garage fitting a new cam. Time will tell..... I`m still going with the Comma 5W50 fully synthetic Motorsport.
Ok i`m going to work it out, without the additive I would have 800ppm`s of zinc ,I my engine takes 7 litres I think and i added 1800ppm if the engine had 5l in it plus the 880ppm.
That works out at 1285ppm for the 7 litres and 800ppm from the Lucas 10w60
That works out at 2085ppm, VR1 is 1300ppm, can`t see that causing any damage .
SILICONEKID346HP said:
Totally agree with you but i already bought the Lucas 10w60 which is very good quality , after reading a thread regarding zinc levels i purchased the additive .
Most modern fully synthetic oils only have around 800ppm`s.
800 ppm is modern car catalytic converter safe dolphin friendly stuff, and just the type of oil you want to avoid in the Rover V8.Most modern fully synthetic oils only have around 800ppm`s.
SILICONEKID346HP said:
What level of zinc would you recommend for these engines ?
Penrite HPR15 has a very healthy (and more than adequate) 1140 parts per million.Interestingly if you choose their super heavy 40w70 you'll get 1450 parts per million, which is about the highest level of zinc you'll ever find in any oil.
I dont recommend this 40w70 stuff, it's for shagged old engines that are burning oil.
That doesn't make it bad quality, quite the opposite actually, it's just not suitable for our cars especially in this country with it's cooler ambient temps than Australia.
I've only picked it to use as an example, because it proves Penrite believes you need more zinc the more worn your engine becomes.
It's also clear the lighter the oil gets (used in more modern engines) the less zinc they put in but they never drop the levels below 1000 parts per million.
So the conclusion is the older the engine design & more worn that engine is the more zinc you need (up to a point), and the newer the engine design the less zinc you need but even they still need a minimum of 1000 ppm.
The only exception to all this being Penrite's catalytic converter safe "Enviro" range, where you'll see the zinc levels reduced drastically, with these enviro oils you'll only get anything from 890 right down to 510 parts per million.
These levels are no good for flat tappet engines like the Rover V8, and it's just the type of oil we should be avoiding.
Penrite are very open about the levels of zinc in their oils, here's the dats.
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/192%20LATES...
The truth is for a moderately worn engine once you reach 1200 ppm, adding more zinc will do nothing whatsoever other than pollute cats & make the oil more expensive, there's absolutely no additional wear protection to be had by adding more zinc.
Valvoline VR1 20w50 has 1300 ppm zinc, so if anything it's over specified in the respect of zinc but it is a mineral only oil.
Millers doesn't seem to advertise the zinc levels of their semi synth CSS 20w60, but Millers oils are first rate and to my knowledge they always add sufficient zinc, so I'd be very confident it'll have somewhere between 1100 & 1300 parts per million.
I still say the Penrite HPR15 15w60 fully synthetic with its 1140 parts per million is perfect for our cars, and for a fully synthetic it's also an unbeatable price.
Unless you're running in your engine (in which case I'd use VR1 or CSS) I just dont see why you'd use anything other than Penrite HPR15 15w60 fully synthetic.
What you really need to avoid is the new era of modern environmentally focused oils with their 800 parts per million or less, and there's a lot out there like this these days
SILICONEKID346HP said:
I could stick with any modern decent oil,most have around 800ppm`s then just to cover my self stick half a bottle of the ZDDp stuff in .Half a bottle is 900ppm`s in 5l litres .
How much is the penrite ?
As I've said a thousand times, five litres of Penrite HPR15 15w60 fully synthetic is £30.95 from Classic Oils.How much is the penrite ?
http://www.classic-oils.net/Product-349/Products-b...
Or £39.95 with postage.
The ZDDP Plus zinc additive you keep banging on about is normally at least £10 for each tiny bottle, probably nearer £15 after postage.
If you use half a bottle ZDDP Plus zinc additive for every 5 litres you'll need to be buying that 800 ppm oil for £32.45 including any postage to compete with Penrite HPR15 on price.
You show me a good quality fully synth 20w50 or 15w60 oil for £32.45.
Honestly Daz stop messing about with your self dosing ZDDP Plus alchemy nonsense, your not a petrochemist.
Just buy the Penrite HPR15 from Classic Oils, its absolutely perfect straight out of the pack.
Job done
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