RE: Chimaera - end is nigh
Discussion
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Why does it have to be the Rover/Buick V8? For instance I remember the Pontiac TransAm had a 7.6 litre V8 - imagine that in a ChimaeraOk, so perhaps the chassis/drive train would struggle but you get my drift, there must be another V8 manufacturer out there willing to supply?
They could have used their own V8 from the Cerbera, but the fact is that noone is buying the cars any more because the Tuscan made them look old fashioned overnight.
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Must say (and this is probably not going to be too popular) I'm actually glad to see the back of the Chimp. Unlike the Griff (which I was very sad to see go) I really think Chimaeras having been looking more and more dated. TVR are moving forward and I reckon the Tamora will be a success.
Dont take this the wrong way guys, but I can't be the only person to think the Griff is a bulbus arsed ugly fronted car can I?
OK so it's super fast and would run rings round my Chimaera any day, but to keep going on about it being a beautiful classic design is a bit strong isn't it?
Ted: Do you sell flame proof jackets in the shop?
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I really think Chimaeras having been looking more and more dated.
Well before I bought my Chim 500 I was seriously considering getting a Griff and most people thought the Griff looked dated and would opt for the Chim., but as they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
What pisses me off though is the zero warning about this (at least Griff buyers had 18 months warning) and apparently even the dealers only officially knew on Monday.
Anto
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Dont take this the wrong way guys, but I can't be the only person to think the Griff is a bulbus arsed ugly fronted car can I?
Don't think I'd go quite that far, but I do prefer the Chimaera, without question. I guess lots of other people do, too, because it's the bigger seller. The back end of the Griff looks like the designer couldn't be bothered.
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Don't know what you drive now Alex as you haven't updated your profile, but this is just more negative cobblers. TVR have to move away from the Rover V8 engine - no option. Therefore either re-engineer an old design (Chim or Griff) to take an in-house engine or focus on new models.
The in-house engines, whilt powerful, are not robust enough and the dealer backup from the factory is crap. TVR should engineer their cars to take a modern bought in engine such as a Mustang V8, BMW V8, Jaguar V8 etc.
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The Cerbera has been a success, the Tuscan is a great car (inc the engine, now the relatively early problems were sorted) and the Tamora is generally felt to be a huge step forward compared to earlier TVRs, and not just by TVR enthusiasts.
Who is going to buy a Tuscan without an engine warranty? In 3 years time the resale values will be pathetic, like the Cerbera now.
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Let me pose a few questions to you;
Have you seen a production Tamora in the 'flesh'?
Yes.
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Have you driven a Tamora?
No, but I'm not criticising its driving manners.
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If so how does it compare to your current car?
I'm currently driving a Punto, so I hope the Tamora is much better!
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Why has much of the motoring press been taken in by the Tamora when you can easily see that it is so pants?
The styling has been roundly criticised.
I think the T-Cars are lovely looking, it took a while for the Tamora to grow on me but now it has I love it.
TVR have just moved on, and them doing so has allowed the Chim and Griff to almost take up a classic mantle.
I do regret (a bit) not waiting for the Tamora but I am an out and out lover of V8's and V10's, that, and the fact that I did envisage some teething troubles with the Tamora I opted for a Chim.
Now, suddenly they are not making them anymore. Its a classic english sportscar design and the fact that they are not making them anymore just adds to that.
What other bespoke manufacturer can boast knicker elastic snapping looks in its new generation of sports cars and still have recent models regarded as design classics. Its probably only Morgan really.
Oh, and as for using the latest Mustang V8 unless they really can stretch the power like in the Cobra R it wouldnt do the marque justice. Oh, and its got 100,000 mile service intervals, and that just wouldn't do in a TVR...
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Wednesday 20th February 13:13
TVR have just moved on, and them doing so has allowed the Chim and Griff to almost take up a classic mantle.
I do regret (a bit) not waiting for the Tamora but I am an out and out lover of V8's and V10's, that, and the fact that I did envisage some teething troubles with the Tamora I opted for a Chim.
Now, suddenly they are not making them anymore. Its a classic english sportscar design and the fact that they are not making them anymore just adds to that.
What other bespoke manufacturer can boast knicker elastic snapping looks in its new generation of sports cars and still have recent models regarded as design classics. Its probably only Morgan really.
Oh, and as for using the latest Mustang V8 unless they really can stretch the power like in the Cobra R it wouldnt do the marque justice. Oh, and its got 100,000 mile service intervals, and that just wouldn't do in a TVR...
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Wednesday 20th February 13:13
Well I love my Chim' and I reckon I'll keep her for a good while yet. I also hope that the AJP engines are a success in the long term. Although I've no idea what I'll eventually do when it's time to move on to a newer car, I certainly hope there are still options in the TVR range for the common man.
Steve (and Bright Yellow Chimaera 5L)
Steve (and Bright Yellow Chimaera 5L)
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and isnt there also the wildcat version of the rover engine ?
Sadly it now looks like that project is dead. Bearing in mind the profit on an engine is a very large chunk of the profit on the car as a whole, there is a huge benefit in making your engines in-house. Otherwise, for every car they sold TVR would make £5000 profit for Ford and £1000 for themselves. Doesn't sound like a recipe for a successful business does it?
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
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Bearing in mind the profit on an engine is a very large chunk of the profit on the car as a whole, there is a huge benefit in making your engines in-house.
So if they use their own engines they should increase profits and therefore have more money in order to further develop bigger/better engines.. Good.
I suppose TVR has to move on but there will never be a better looking TVR than the Griffith, the Chimaera too is a gorgeous CLEAN design. The Tamora may drive brilliantly but just looks crap, the Tuscan at least inherits a clean aggressive and masculine shape and is the right way forward for TVR. Realistically how do you develop a classic like the Grifith?
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I suppose TVR has to move on but there will never be a better looking TVR than the Griffith, the Chimaera too is a gorgeous CLEAN design. The Tamora may drive brilliantly but just looks crap, the Tuscan at least inherits a clean aggressive and masculine shape and is the right way forward for TVR. Realistically how do you develop a classic like the Grifith?
Personal opinion really, lots of people would not rate the Griff or Chim as the best looking TVR, maybe the familiarity changes ones perception as I think they look a bit dated now. I love the shape of the S and big Wedges (oh and the 3000S). Tuscan ok, Tamora - didn't like it at the motor show launch, but now I love it and would consider buying one if I had the spare cash.
Finally - you can't 'develop' a classic, you can only design a sports car which becomes a classic after a period of time.
Cheers,
JSG.
Sad that the model is being ended before I even get mine but that's life!
I do agree with previous thoughts though about owners going from one model to another as their 'prosperity' grows – and wonder which model is now the starter model.
For those of us without so much cash we have to buy the best one we can afford of the models we like – Chim's my fave (for fave, read within my price range) so that's what I've got.
Tuscan and Cerbie are gorgeous tho'.
Tamora has yet to 'grow on me'. Anyone else think the front looks like that small Honda (forget the name). Either that or a Suzuki Cappucini (sp?)
Mike
If TVRs were always an example of form over function then what's the excuse for the rear of the Tamora?
I do agree with previous thoughts though about owners going from one model to another as their 'prosperity' grows – and wonder which model is now the starter model.
For those of us without so much cash we have to buy the best one we can afford of the models we like – Chim's my fave (for fave, read within my price range) so that's what I've got.
Tuscan and Cerbie are gorgeous tho'.
Tamora has yet to 'grow on me'. Anyone else think the front looks like that small Honda (forget the name). Either that or a Suzuki Cappucini (sp?)
Mike
If TVRs were always an example of form over function then what's the excuse for the rear of the Tamora?
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The in-house engines, whilt powerful, are not robust enough and the dealer backup from the factory is crap. TVR should engineer their cars to take a modern bought in engine such as a Mustang V8, BMW V8, Jaguar V8 etc.
What do you base this statement on, hearsay or personal experience. For all the bad experiences how many happy customers do you believe there are?
Why buy in an engine when they can and have designed their own, thats just putting themselves in the same position as with the Rover lump? Mustang V8s are not powerfull enough, BMW and Jag also have reliability issues.
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Who is going to buy a Tuscan without an engine warranty? In 3 years time the resale values will be pathetic, like the Cerbera now.
Lots of people will buy them second hand, if you're that worried about resale values buy a Toyota.
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The styling has been roundly criticised.
Initially maybe, but not so much in the recent reports. It seems to be accepted that all round performance is going to dictate styling to an extent on a performance car more than a car designed purely for looks like a Punto.
I just can't believe some of the rubbish I have just read on here 
The Griffith and Chimeara were great in their day. Now times have moved on. There is loads of these cars available if people really want one and there always will be.
I thought that the Tamora was ugly (and the Tuscan for that matter) when I first saw it. I was fortunate to be at TMS when they had the prototype and I had a quick blat in it and was absolutley stunned by the handling performance and build quality and that was just a bloody prototype. When I sold my Cerbera there was only one car for me. Now I have it I am convinced that this is the best TVR ever. I promise you, if it was crap I would say so, but it isn't and that why the motoring press have gone ga-ga over it. The front is a blatant copy of the Griff, it looks f**k all like a Honda or Cappuccino, what utter b*llocks.
In the few days I have had it everyone has loved it and commented on how the back looks awesome in the flesh. I witnessed this sniping at the TVRCC meeting when the Tuscan first came out and now I'm seeing it again.Have some of you got the hump because you love the car and don't want to see it go, or is it because it means you won't have a "current production car"???
For me I love ALL TVR's and I think it is time to move on. The Griff and Chim have had their day. The King is dead- Long live the King!!!!
The Griffith and Chimeara were great in their day. Now times have moved on. There is loads of these cars available if people really want one and there always will be.
I thought that the Tamora was ugly (and the Tuscan for that matter) when I first saw it. I was fortunate to be at TMS when they had the prototype and I had a quick blat in it and was absolutley stunned by the handling performance and build quality and that was just a bloody prototype. When I sold my Cerbera there was only one car for me. Now I have it I am convinced that this is the best TVR ever. I promise you, if it was crap I would say so, but it isn't and that why the motoring press have gone ga-ga over it. The front is a blatant copy of the Griff, it looks f**k all like a Honda or Cappuccino, what utter b*llocks.
In the few days I have had it everyone has loved it and commented on how the back looks awesome in the flesh. I witnessed this sniping at the TVRCC meeting when the Tuscan first came out and now I'm seeing it again.Have some of you got the hump because you love the car and don't want to see it go, or is it because it means you won't have a "current production car"???
For me I love ALL TVR's and I think it is time to move on. The Griff and Chim have had their day. The King is dead- Long live the King!!!!
JSG
Whoah mate, I agreed with what you said Not all bollox at all, And although I may appear biased because I have bought one, I'm really not. The Griff IMO is the most beautiful car ever made and the Cerbera IMO is the quickest and cheapest supercar of all time, the Tuscan the most stunning etc. etc.
I hope one day the Tamora has the same response from us TVR tifosi, and given time I think it probably will
Whoah mate, I agreed with what you said
Not all bollox at all, And although I may appear biased because I have bought one, I'm really not. The Griff IMO is the most beautiful car ever made and the Cerbera IMO is the quickest and cheapest supercar of all time, the Tuscan the most stunning etc. etc. I hope one day the Tamora has the same response from us TVR tifosi, and given time I think it probably will
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JSG
I hope one day the Tamora has the same response from us TVR tifosi, and given time I think it probably will
Or should that be Trevosi ?
I am sorry to here of the 5L demise, however, as has been said the company has to move on and if you cannot get the supply there is no point in offering it to the public.
No worries Flasher, I had included as my post was tongue in cheek, I just get fed up with TVR bashers - I am biased because I have always been a TVR fan through choice.
The Tamora has grown on me, I didn't like it at the launch when I saw it on the NEC stand with a mate who ordered a Tuscan R on the day (to go with his Cerbera, rich bastard) but since then it has grown on me. I wasn't over keen on the Chim or Griff, I don't know why but I prefered the looks of the S which is why I'm on my second, but I find the Tamora a real temptation even though I've not been in one yet.
Congrats to all of you who had the foresight to order one - if I hadn't spent 33 grand on family cars I might be an expectant owner.
Cheers,
JSG.
as my post was tongue in cheek, I just get fed up with TVR bashers - I am biased because I have always been a TVR fan through choice. The Tamora has grown on me, I didn't like it at the launch when I saw it on the NEC stand with a mate who ordered a Tuscan R on the day (to go with his Cerbera, rich bastard) but since then it has grown on me. I wasn't over keen on the Chim or Griff, I don't know why but I prefered the looks of the S which is why I'm on my second, but I find the Tamora a real temptation even though I've not been in one yet.
Congrats to all of you who had the foresight to order one - if I hadn't spent 33 grand on family cars I might be an expectant owner.
Cheers,
JSG.
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What do you base this statement on, hearsay or personal experience. For all the bad experiences how many happy customers do you believe there are?
I know several people who took delivery of new Tuscans. With out exception, they have ALL been back to the factory for major engine work. This wouldn't be so bad except it takes them up to three months to return the car. Why won't TVR allow dealers to do engine work? What happens when the car is 5 years old?
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Lots of people will buy them second hand, if you're that worried about resale values buy a Toyota.
Lots of people will buy them secondhand. For peanuts.
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Initially maybe, but not so much in the recent reports. It seems to be accepted that all round performance is going to dictate styling to an extent on a performance car more than a car designed purely for looks like a Punto.
The bits that I don't like (fussy bonnet detail, double decker grill, bulbous rear, Max Power spoiler) are nothing to do with performance.
Don't get me wrong, I love TVRs, I owned a Griff 500 from (nearly) new for three years, but I just think that the factory's attitude stinks and the treat their dealers and customers with contempt.
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I know several people who took delivery of new Tuscans. With out exception, they have ALL been back to the factory for major engine work. This wouldn't be so bad except it takes them up to three months to return the car. Why won't TVR allow dealers to do engine work? What happens when the car is 5 years old?
Right, we are back round to this one again then - if you had kept a check on what has been said previously on PH about this then you might get a better (and more realistic) impression on the engine reliability.
Someone (sorry forgotten who now) did a quick and unscientific poll of the CLOSED Tuscan egroup mailing list (you MUST be a Tuscan owner to join) and the percentage of owners that suffered engine work was down in the 15% - 20% .... and almost all of these owners were the first run of the production line - i.e. the ones that we all know about with the "finger follower" problem. This has been rectified and they no longer suffer from such problems.
So, can we please please please stop with the constant unsustantiated reports on Tuscan / SP6 engine reliability.... We have done this time and time again, and has been pointed out previously on PH - there are at least 4 happy customers who dont use PH for every unhappy one that does....
Cheers,
Paul
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