RE: Chimaera - end is nigh
Discussion
Why don't you all stop being so childish? Flasher is defending the Tamora because so many people seem determined to believe it's crap and ugly. In truth, just like the Tuscan, Cerbera, Griffmaera, 'S', wedge, and every other bloody TVR to date, it's part of a process of evolution for a great sports car company. I find it hard to believe now, but I used to lust after wedges, but I do not hold that opinion now. I'm not that keen on the front end of the Tuscan, the Chimaera handles poorly on bumpy roads, the Tamora is "interesting" in external appearance. Have you actually read through this thread, all you guys with such blinkered opinons? You all sound like a bunch of jealous 13 year olds, "my dad's bigger than your dad" etc. etc. For God's sake, grow up, and if you really DO know better than the rest of us, and YOUR opinion has greater value than anyone els's, then the mature and gracious thing to do, is keep that opinion to yourself, and show how much more of a gentleman you are.
Ted, I think it's time this thread was locked, and all the little boys stopped pouting and went to bed.
>> Edited by nubbin on Friday 22 February 23:19
Ted, I think it's time this thread was locked, and all the little boys stopped pouting and went to bed.
>> Edited by nubbin on Friday 22 February 23:19
tvr nut:- my arse!! you are so thick you cant even use the smilies properly. I bet you don't even own a TVR you f**ing idiot. You haven't even got the guts to post your real identity or a picture of your car, yet you are quite happy to check my profile out and get all personal.People like you really p*ss me off.
I would bet that you haven't driven a Tamora either.As for me hijacking this thread I haven't, you prick. You really are an opinionated tosser aren't you? No "In my opinon" from you is there? I suppose you think everyone just agrees with you, you pompous twat.
The point I have been trying to make is that we all love our particular TVR, Porsche, whatever and joking aside we come on here because we share similar feelings about driving cars and enjoying them. I don't expect to see my car slagged off on every forum all the time. If thats what this site is about then this will be my last post on here. If there wasn't another choice I would probably have a Chimeara, but there is a choice and I chose a Griff,then a cerbera and now a Tamora. I was just trying to point out that people get brassed off when they join a site like this which is dedicted to TVR's and similar cars, only to see their pride and joy slaughtered because it doesn't meet some peoples requirement for being pretty. I originally came on the "Chimeara" section of Pistonheads to see your reaction to the Chimeara being ended, and I was shocked to see the thread being turned into an anti-Tamora thread. Go and have a look at the "Tamora" section, we haven't slagged off any other TVR on there.
Some of the posts really dissapointed me so I responded. I can take you not liking my car, but now this has become personal and that's a shame.
Funny how GB1360 and Nubbin both had Chimeara's and now own Tamora's, I wonder how they feel???
>> Edited by flasher on Saturday 23 February 07:02
>> Edited by flasher on Monday 25th February 19:57
I would bet that you haven't driven a Tamora either.As for me hijacking this thread I haven't, you prick. You really are an opinionated tosser aren't you? No "In my opinon" from you is there? I suppose you think everyone just agrees with you, you pompous twat.
The point I have been trying to make is that we all love our particular TVR, Porsche, whatever and joking aside we come on here because we share similar feelings about driving cars and enjoying them. I don't expect to see my car slagged off on every forum all the time. If thats what this site is about then this will be my last post on here. If there wasn't another choice I would probably have a Chimeara, but there is a choice and I chose a Griff,then a cerbera and now a Tamora. I was just trying to point out that people get brassed off when they join a site like this which is dedicted to TVR's and similar cars, only to see their pride and joy slaughtered because it doesn't meet some peoples requirement for being pretty. I originally came on the "Chimeara" section of Pistonheads to see your reaction to the Chimeara being ended, and I was shocked to see the thread being turned into an anti-Tamora thread. Go and have a look at the "Tamora" section, we haven't slagged off any other TVR on there.
Some of the posts really dissapointed me so I responded. I can take you not liking my car, but now this has become personal and that's a shame.
Funny how GB1360 and Nubbin both had Chimeara's and now own Tamora's, I wonder how they feel???
>> Edited by flasher on Saturday 23 February 07:02
>> Edited by flasher on Monday 25th February 19:57
Eh Eh, easy now (with liverpudlian accent - just as in Harry Enfield) - calm down calm down.
Rather than get into a debate about everything, all I will say is that without the Griffith and Chimaera it would be doubtfull that TVR would be hear at all, never mind releasing some of the wildest cars on the road.
We are lucky (you cant get TVRs everywhere of course) and therefore we should count our blessings. TVR have always been pretty good at judging the marketplace for specialist sports cars - Griffith for monster speed freaks, Chimaera for slightly less monster speed freaks... We now have the same again - Tuscan for loonies, and Tamora for slightly less loonies. It is all about what you "like" and what you "want".
Personally I love the Tuscan and like the Tamora (but in reality unlikley to be able to afford a Tuscan so Tamora it is then!). Either way, I am happy in that there is a bunch of people up-t-north that are prepared to make cars that are the stangest looking, wildest interior, stonkingly fastest things on the road with one finger firmly raised at the greenies....
And most importantly - at a reasonable cost too - so us lesser mortals without massive salaries can actually afford one....
Cheers,
Paul
Rather than get into a debate about everything, all I will say is that without the Griffith and Chimaera it would be doubtfull that TVR would be hear at all, never mind releasing some of the wildest cars on the road.
We are lucky (you cant get TVRs everywhere of course) and therefore we should count our blessings. TVR have always been pretty good at judging the marketplace for specialist sports cars - Griffith for monster speed freaks, Chimaera for slightly less monster speed freaks... We now have the same again - Tuscan for loonies, and Tamora for slightly less loonies. It is all about what you "like" and what you "want".
Personally I love the Tuscan and like the Tamora (but in reality unlikley to be able to afford a Tuscan so Tamora it is then!). Either way, I am happy in that there is a bunch of people up-t-north that are prepared to make cars that are the stangest looking, wildest interior, stonkingly fastest things on the road with one finger firmly raised at the greenies....
And most importantly - at a reasonable cost too - so us lesser mortals without massive salaries can actually afford one....
Cheers,
Paul
yeah, it's all getting a bit personal now, if tvr nut came here to get a reaction, well done mate feel happy and try another marque's site now. Flash mellow out mate, you've got a car people should be envious of, if they aint then they just don't get it do they. I think beljames is nearer the truth....my missus doesn't appear to age to me,till my daughter brings home a school mate.....thats when I notice the missus (and I) are looking a bit old. Or it's a bit like brakes wearing out...you don't notice it until you jump in a newer car
quote:
Funny how GB1360 and Nubbin both had Chimeara's and now own Tamora's, I wonder how they feel???
In amswer, I bought my Tamora to address all the dynamic failings of my (4L) Chimaera. In the 750 miles so far, it is light years ahead in handling, speed and build quality. It is also, IMHO(!!) quite good looking, and if the right colour is chosen, very nice in shape and proportion. It is not perfect, and the back end is probably the result of some design compromises, but as pbrettle has hinted at, it has supercar performance for mid-range BMW money. How can any of us lose with that formula? It is a step forward to greatness by TVR, and the next design may well be even better. No doubt the Luddites will have a go at that one as well?!
Gimme a spare 36k and I'd consider a Tamora - lets face it, the majority of us drive TVRs for these reasons:
- How it looks and feels when you're behind the wheel/sitting in it - The Tamora is built better than the Chimaera and still has a cool interior and lots of steering and suspension communication/space for lanky gits etc.
- How it sounds. I like the V8 growl too, but from what I've heard so far the Tamora sounds pretty good. Yes, many people will miss the V8, but that's in the past and there's not much we're going to do about it now TVR have developed the AJP8 and straight six.
- How it goes. Er, Tamora wins.
- How it handles. Tamora wins again.
- Reliability - hmm. Well I bet less things will need replacing on a newish Tamora than my 44k Chimaera
Give it 6 months and we'll know the Speed Six engine is sorted too (that's what the 2yr factory warranty is for isn't it?).
- How it looks. Very subjective, but many feel the early Chimaera is better looking and the later models have a fat butt, me included. The Tamora is just a bit different at the rear. I would like to think TVR will do a few nips 'n tucks over the coming year or two to address the areas of complaint. As for the rest of the Tamora - looks nice to me and most other people who see them on the road. I like the fact that they've got rid of the quarterlight stay things too.
All IMHO of course.
T/.
- How it looks and feels when you're behind the wheel/sitting in it - The Tamora is built better than the Chimaera and still has a cool interior and lots of steering and suspension communication/space for lanky gits etc.
- How it sounds. I like the V8 growl too, but from what I've heard so far the Tamora sounds pretty good. Yes, many people will miss the V8, but that's in the past and there's not much we're going to do about it now TVR have developed the AJP8 and straight six.
- How it goes. Er, Tamora wins.
- How it handles. Tamora wins again.
- Reliability - hmm. Well I bet less things will need replacing on a newish Tamora than my 44k Chimaera
Give it 6 months and we'll know the Speed Six engine is sorted too (that's what the 2yr factory warranty is for isn't it?). - How it looks. Very subjective, but many feel the early Chimaera is better looking and the later models have a fat butt, me included. The Tamora is just a bit different at the rear. I would like to think TVR will do a few nips 'n tucks over the coming year or two to address the areas of complaint. As for the rest of the Tamora - looks nice to me and most other people who see them on the road. I like the fact that they've got rid of the quarterlight stay things too.
All IMHO of course.
T/.
quote:hoorah! ... and the point is if no-one dares to criticise then there won't be any changes. Keep saying "it grows on you" and you'd better mean it 'cos thats how it will stay. The Tamora actually has the potential to be the greatest TVR ever IMHO (when I am not in narrow minded mode eh flasher!), but the rear end needs a redesign.
I would like to think TVR will do a few nips 'n tucks over the coming year or two to address the areas of complaint
I wouldn't argue with that Phil. Maybe they should have designed the car IN a wind tunnel rather than put it in a wind tunnel afterwards!!! My only worry would be that in the desire to make it's "arse" look prettier they spoil the handling. This happened with the Tuscan when they did all the chassis and suspension settings for 16" wheels and then f***d it all up by sticking 18" wheels on. It's taken them two years to sort out the handling!!! Fortunatley, because the Tamora is so small it looks right with the 16" wheels.
Going back to the main topic here, I think that whoever said earlier in the thread that the Chim and Griff made/saved TVR, I would agree wholeheartedly.
Being an active member of the TVRCC I know from my experience that very few people have owned both. I was so smitten by the Griff that nothing TVR have done since I first saw it has ever had the same effect on me. Maybe we expect them to do something even better than than the Griffith and Chimeara? and maybe that just isn't possible. Great things don't happen very often in a company's lifetime we should count ourselves lucky that with these two cars we got to own the best TVR has ever produced, looks wise. My only critiscism of my Griff was it's dreadful handling and performance in the wet. My new car isn't as good looking I admit (oh no I've done it now!!) but I drove it in the wet and snow yesterday and my mate following me in his Cerbera couldn't keep up with me, and his tail was wagging all over the place!!
I do really miss that V8 rumble though, that will never be replaced....
Going back to the main topic here, I think that whoever said earlier in the thread that the Chim and Griff made/saved TVR, I would agree wholeheartedly.
Being an active member of the TVRCC I know from my experience that very few people have owned both. I was so smitten by the Griff that nothing TVR have done since I first saw it has ever had the same effect on me. Maybe we expect them to do something even better than than the Griffith and Chimeara? and maybe that just isn't possible. Great things don't happen very often in a company's lifetime we should count ourselves lucky that with these two cars we got to own the best TVR has ever produced, looks wise. My only critiscism of my Griff was it's dreadful handling and performance in the wet. My new car isn't as good looking I admit (oh no I've done it now!!) but I drove it in the wet and snow yesterday and my mate following me in his Cerbera couldn't keep up with me, and his tail was wagging all over the place!!
I do really miss that V8 rumble though, that will never be replaced....
Talking of wind tunnels 'n stuff. About 2 years ago there was a blue Cerbera out Wiltshire way (ex David Hendry car I think) with spoiler on the boot 
- it wasn't too big, kinda XR3i sized. Anyway, IMO this looked far far worse than any ground effect aerodymanics the Tamora has. I'm sure it kept the back end down a bit at high speeds, but I bet it also reduced the top speed of the car.
One of the times I saw it was at a Tuscan race at Castle Coombe. It was on a trailer being towed - but it was parked in the TVR parking area ... bit strange. Good way of keeping the miles down, but tricky to drive.
T/.
- it wasn't too big, kinda XR3i sized. Anyway, IMO this looked far far worse than any ground effect aerodymanics the Tamora has. I'm sure it kept the back end down a bit at high speeds, but I bet it also reduced the top speed of the car. One of the times I saw it was at a Tuscan race at Castle Coombe. It was on a trailer being towed - but it was parked in the TVR parking area ... bit strange. Good way of keeping the miles down, but tricky to drive.
T/.
quote:
Maybe we expect them to do something even better than than the Griffith and Chimeara? and maybe that just isn't possible.
Course it is! Just look at Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lamborghini (er, maybe not!), Jaguar. They repeatedly design new classics, and make the odd mistake along the way. As a specific and possibly relevant example, take the Jaguar XK8. Nice car, shame about the fat arse. But they've come up with some belters since, even if they haven't made it into production.
The Tamora has the potential, from a lot of angles it is very aggressive in a stubby, muscular way. Not quiet Elise on steriods but that sort of thing.
The Griff and Chimaera were not perfect, the side on view of both cars to my mind has always been unbalanced, and a bit heavy at the rear. This is undoubtedly due to the requirement to stow the roof panel, but not helped by the 15/16" wheel mix.
Maybe they should let Ned loose on the Tamora!
PS glad you've chilled out!
As owners of an absolutely perfect 5 litre Chimaera, we are very disappointed that the 5 litre is being dropped particularly as we thought the top Range Rover has a similar engine as a top end option.
In terms of performance we doubt that the Tamora will beat the 5 litre in a straight line over a reasonable distance. However having watched two Tamoras against two Chimaeras (4 litre and a 4.5) through the chicane/'s' bend at Goodwood at the Westover Track Day recently there is no doubt that the Tamora chassis is far superior at the rear end - we spun at the Woodcote corner last summer!!
In terms of performance we doubt that the Tamora will beat the 5 litre in a straight line over a reasonable distance. However having watched two Tamoras against two Chimaeras (4 litre and a 4.5) through the chicane/'s' bend at Goodwood at the Westover Track Day recently there is no doubt that the Tamora chassis is far superior at the rear end - we spun at the Woodcote corner last summer!!
But the Tamora has more bhp, is lighter, will get to 100mph in 9.5 secs and exceed 175mph (TVR figures).
I doubt if your Chimaera would be in front at the end of a straight?
Anyway, back to the real issue. I had 3 superb years using a 4.0L Chimaera everyday and would be very sorry to see it be dropped from the TVR range. However, all we officially know is that the 500 is being dropped. Let's hope they continue to make the 450 as long as there is sufficient demand. None of us can complain if that too is dropped if no orders are received?
Cheers....... Andrew
>> Edited by gb61390 on Monday 25th February 15:25
I doubt if your Chimaera would be in front at the end of a straight?
Anyway, back to the real issue. I had 3 superb years using a 4.0L Chimaera everyday and would be very sorry to see it be dropped from the TVR range. However, all we officially know is that the 500 is being dropped. Let's hope they continue to make the 450 as long as there is sufficient demand. None of us can complain if that too is dropped if no orders are received?
Cheers....... Andrew
>> Edited by gb61390 on Monday 25th February 15:25
quote:
quote:
In terms of performance we doubt that the Tamora will beat the 5 litre in a straight line over a reasonable distance.
250bhp vs over 300bhp?
Don't take this the wrong way but the facts are:-
5.0 Chim = 320 bhp
Tamora= 350 bhp
and we all know that TVR's figures for the V8 were wildly optimistic. more like 280 bhp infact. The S6 engines are pretty spot on and the figures I have seen from the dyno last year (on a 4.0 S6) were only 10 bhp out. Bring your Chim to "TVR Mania" at Duxford in August and we will find out which is quickest. 100 quid to charity says it's the Tamora. There isn't a lot in it. My old 4.2 Cerbera was quicker than the S6's last year but only by about three car lengths...
are you up for the challenge???
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