Tuning the 4.6 V8 as fitted to the MG 260 models
Discussion
What are the popular tuning options for this engine? It appears to be very similar to that used in the Ford mustang, but puts out less power i see.
I have been offered an immaculate 2005 SE model for silly money and am toying with the idea of creating a 'sleeper' in time for next spring?
Any information welcomed.
Also the names of any specialist tuners please.
Thank you.
I have been offered an immaculate 2005 SE model for silly money and am toying with the idea of creating a 'sleeper' in time for next spring?
Any information welcomed.
Also the names of any specialist tuners please.
Thank you.
http://forum.two-sixties.com/default.
www.xpowerforums.com
www.dreadnought-mg.co.uk - produce a 400bhp supercharger conversion
Accufab throttlebody & zero quad exit pipes popular upgrades.
there is a roadgoing turbocharged 260 with 500bhp+
www.xpowerforums.com
www.dreadnought-mg.co.uk - produce a 400bhp supercharger conversion
Accufab throttlebody & zero quad exit pipes popular upgrades.
there is a roadgoing turbocharged 260 with 500bhp+
Pretty much anything that will fit the Mustang 4.6 2v SOHC will fit - so long as you can get it under the hood/bonnet (delete as appropriate).... 
Dreadnought-TVR (as already mentioned) are specialist tuners as are sean hyland etc etc, and can probably explain further if you ring them. Cracking car - apart from all the niggly little faults!
I wouldn't mind betting near 300bhp is possible just with improved air intake/throttle body/exhaust upgrade.... (not just the zeros which are just a replacement back-box and therefore seem primarily for creating noise?)
What's the "silly" price if you don't mind me asking?
Dreadnought-TVR (as already mentioned) are specialist tuners as are sean hyland etc etc, and can probably explain further if you ring them. Cracking car - apart from all the niggly little faults!
I wouldn't mind betting near 300bhp is possible just with improved air intake/throttle body/exhaust upgrade.... (not just the zeros which are just a replacement back-box and therefore seem primarily for creating noise?)
What's the "silly" price if you don't mind me asking?
Edited by nick young on Thursday 2nd November 13:22
Roman said:
there is a roadgoing turbocharged 260 with 500bhp+
Are you sure on that being turbo as opposed to supercharged? I asked about that alternative on a couple of forums and the universal answer seemed to be that you wouldn't be able to fit a turbo in there (especially as you'd need one on each side of the exhaust)?
Kermit power said:
Roman said:
there is a roadgoing turbocharged 260 with 500bhp+
Are you sure on that being turbo as opposed to supercharged? I asked about that alternative on a couple of forums and the universal answer seemed to be that you wouldn't be able to fit a turbo in there (especially as you'd need one on each side of the exhaust)?
Not sure now. The car was built by a guy called Darran Gibson and was featured in MG Enthusiast Magazine Jan 06. I cant seem to find the article on-line now.
Apparently the power is around 600bhp too and the car looks like a standard black 260 mk1!
Funnily enough I'm doing exactly that. I picked up a non-SE (lighter, no traction control) for £16k brand new, unregistered.
It's being picked up in a couple of weeks by Dreadnought for their supercharger conversion. This is a Kenne Bell twin screw charger with integral intercooler in the inlet manifold. This setup produces 400 bhp and 400-420 lb ft.
The charger itself is at mid-flow with those figures - if you check out the Kenne Bell website (www.kennebell.net) then you'll see that they rate their charger up to 750 bhp i.e. it can flow that much air.
The engine in the ZT260 is the 2 valve Mustang engine - the Dreadnought conversion uses the 9 psi pulley to produce 400 bhp as that's where the engine is still safe. The stock bottom end isn't up to a huge amount more than this.
However Brian at Dreadnought has told me that with new rods, pistons and crank (£4000) then we can use the 14 psi pulley to get 550 bhp on normal unleaded. Dreadnought themselves run a 540 bhp ZT.
If I go for those sorts of figures then there are other things to look at as well - the gearbox and diff will need auxiliary cooling, brakes will need uprating and it'll need a beefier clutch and flywheel.
The Two-Sixties club (www.two-sixties.com) has commissioned a set of exhausts from Zero Exhausts which sound absolutely excellent, I have them on mine. However exhausts / air filters / throttle bodies aren't really that effective at increasing power. There is anecdotal evidence that throttle response is improved, but not much solid data on real power improvements. Personally I wouldn't bother with the Accufab body and other random bits of billet bling, and instead put the cash towards the supercharger. The supercharger is easily the best bang per buck. Definitely get the exhausts purely for sound quality, it sounds like my old Griff 500 now
Apart from the fact that it's a perfect sleeper (sensible saloon with monster V8), it's actually a great driver's car in its own right - it has great handling, feelsome steering and good brakes. It's great fun to drive and can be slid about
Go for it, though turn off the traction control if you get the SE - it's dangerous as it cuts the power dead when slippage is detected, which can lead to terminal lift-off oversteer. It's a very crude mechanism.
It's being picked up in a couple of weeks by Dreadnought for their supercharger conversion. This is a Kenne Bell twin screw charger with integral intercooler in the inlet manifold. This setup produces 400 bhp and 400-420 lb ft.
The charger itself is at mid-flow with those figures - if you check out the Kenne Bell website (www.kennebell.net) then you'll see that they rate their charger up to 750 bhp i.e. it can flow that much air.
The engine in the ZT260 is the 2 valve Mustang engine - the Dreadnought conversion uses the 9 psi pulley to produce 400 bhp as that's where the engine is still safe. The stock bottom end isn't up to a huge amount more than this.
However Brian at Dreadnought has told me that with new rods, pistons and crank (£4000) then we can use the 14 psi pulley to get 550 bhp on normal unleaded. Dreadnought themselves run a 540 bhp ZT.
If I go for those sorts of figures then there are other things to look at as well - the gearbox and diff will need auxiliary cooling, brakes will need uprating and it'll need a beefier clutch and flywheel.
The Two-Sixties club (www.two-sixties.com) has commissioned a set of exhausts from Zero Exhausts which sound absolutely excellent, I have them on mine. However exhausts / air filters / throttle bodies aren't really that effective at increasing power. There is anecdotal evidence that throttle response is improved, but not much solid data on real power improvements. Personally I wouldn't bother with the Accufab body and other random bits of billet bling, and instead put the cash towards the supercharger. The supercharger is easily the best bang per buck. Definitely get the exhausts purely for sound quality, it sounds like my old Griff 500 now
Apart from the fact that it's a perfect sleeper (sensible saloon with monster V8), it's actually a great driver's car in its own right - it has great handling, feelsome steering and good brakes. It's great fun to drive and can be slid about
Go for it, though turn off the traction control if you get the SE - it's dangerous as it cuts the power dead when slippage is detected, which can lead to terminal lift-off oversteer. It's a very crude mechanism.
Hi
These are the upgrades I know about!
www.spunagain.co.uk/ZT260upgrades.htm
I have also had comments from another owner that the the cam option doe really make a difference. Janspeed in Sailsbury did the work - they have the tools to drop the engine and chnage the camshaft.
Regards
Spunagain
These are the upgrades I know about!
www.spunagain.co.uk/ZT260upgrades.htm
I have also had comments from another owner that the the cam option doe really make a difference. Janspeed in Sailsbury did the work - they have the tools to drop the engine and chnage the camshaft.
Regards
Spunagain
Dreadnought have finished my car and I'm getting it back tomorrow 
Apparently it's posted 390 bhp and 435 lb ft on the rolling road. Mental!!!!
Brian @ Dreadnought reckons the gearbox is good up to 500 bhp so no worries there. I guess if you abuse the 'box then you may have trouble, but it's a pretty standard box and gets fitted with the 32v Mustang engine in other cars IIRC, which regularly puts out north of 300 bhp.
I'll get the gearbox swapped out if I go for the next stage (rods and crank - the supercharger will go up to 600 bhp, but needs a stronger bottom end). I may not - I'm not a drag racer and I may find 435 lb ft adequate for dispatching pesky BMW drivers....
Apparently it's posted 390 bhp and 435 lb ft on the rolling road. Mental!!!! Brian @ Dreadnought reckons the gearbox is good up to 500 bhp so no worries there. I guess if you abuse the 'box then you may have trouble, but it's a pretty standard box and gets fitted with the 32v Mustang engine in other cars IIRC, which regularly puts out north of 300 bhp.
I'll get the gearbox swapped out if I go for the next stage (rods and crank - the supercharger will go up to 600 bhp, but needs a stronger bottom end). I may not - I'm not a drag racer and I may find 435 lb ft adequate for dispatching pesky BMW drivers....
cyberface said:
Dreadnought have finished my car and I'm getting it back tomorrow Apparently it's posted 390 bhp and 435 lb ft on the rolling road. Mental!!!!
Brian @ Dreadnought reckons the gearbox is good up to 500 bhp so no worries there. I guess if you abuse the 'box then you may have trouble, but it's a pretty standard box and gets fitted with the 32v Mustang engine in other cars IIRC, which regularly puts out north of 300 bhp.
I'll get the gearbox swapped out if I go for the next stage (rods and crank - the supercharger will go up to 600 bhp, but needs a stronger bottom end). I may not - I'm not a drag racer and I may find 435 lb ft adequate for dispatching pesky BMW drivers....
Apparently it's posted 390 bhp and 435 lb ft on the rolling road. Mental!!!! Brian @ Dreadnought reckons the gearbox is good up to 500 bhp so no worries there. I guess if you abuse the 'box then you may have trouble, but it's a pretty standard box and gets fitted with the 32v Mustang engine in other cars IIRC, which regularly puts out north of 300 bhp.
I'll get the gearbox swapped out if I go for the next stage (rods and crank - the supercharger will go up to 600 bhp, but needs a stronger bottom end). I may not - I'm not a drag racer and I may find 435 lb ft adequate for dispatching pesky BMW drivers....
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=316904&f=23&h=0 Check page 3.
OSR said:
Hi Cyberface,
Are you going to upgrade the gearbox? My mate's managed to bend the selector rods on his completely standard 260 and had to get a new gearbox. Apparently the standard box isn't up to much :/
Are you going to upgrade the gearbox? My mate's managed to bend the selector rods on his completely standard 260 and had to get a new gearbox. Apparently the standard box isn't up to much :/
Sounds unlucky. There has only been 1 member of the the two-sixties (owners' club, www.two-sixties.com) who has had gearbox issues as far as I am aware. Given that membership there covers about 110 of the 700 or so ZT260s built, statistics would suggest more problems there if the gearbox really was fallible. BTW, if your mate isn't one of the members, tell him to join. Vast amounts of knowledgeable people to help with just that sort of problem!
Kermit power said:
OSR said:
Hi Cyberface,
Are you going to upgrade the gearbox? My mate's managed to bend the selector rods on his completely standard 260 and had to get a new gearbox. Apparently the standard box isn't up to much :/
Are you going to upgrade the gearbox? My mate's managed to bend the selector rods on his completely standard 260 and had to get a new gearbox. Apparently the standard box isn't up to much :/
Sounds unlucky. There has only been 1 member of the the two-sixties (owners' club, www.two-sixties.com) who has had gearbox issues as far as I am aware. Given that membership there covers about 110 of the 700 or so ZT260s built, statistics would suggest more problems there if the gearbox really was fallible. BTW, if your mate isn't one of the members, tell him to join. Vast amounts of knowledgeable people to help with just that sort of problem!
Agreed, unlucky. One of the good points about the 260 is the excellent very strong Tremec box used on a number of V8 cars. The main causes of failure (in the USA) have been due to abuse rather than faults.
Paul-C said:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=316904&f=23&h=0 Check page 3.
OK, I've read it, so what's your point other than you prefer the Holden to the MG? It's just an opinion - sounds like you've had a worse experience with your car. Mine's been perfect so far - done 400 miles this weekend and the supercharged engine is excellent... still needs time to loosen up as it still feels tight though.
Yes the Chevy V8s are 'better' than the Ford if you're talking specific output and new-technology, and it'd be nice if the MG had been fitted with an LS from the start, but it isn't and I'm simply glad that a big V8-powered rear-drive ZT was made in the first place.
The handling is excellent for a big, heavy car, and it's genuinely characterful and fun to drive. There's no point suggesting a BMW since nothing this side of the M5 has any character, and even then the M5 is only great when driven really fast. The MG entertains at low speeds as well (mostly due to the engine note).
Yes the new 500 bhp VXR is probably a faster car, but it's a *hell* of a lot more expensive than the MG, and IMO the MG looks much better both outside and in. Mine is a new, unregistered, supercharged and IMO very well put together quality saloon, for £22,000 all inc.
You can forgive a lot of faults for this sort of money (people forgive TVRs at 40k+++ FFS) but other than the underpowered aircon and the top heater hose, there *are* *no* major faults.
Perhaps you've had a troublesome example - I'm actually genuinely surprised that, as an owner, you're not that impressed with it - I think it's a great car. I'm used to mostly decent sports cars (check profile) and the idea of a big saloon filled me with dread... but I'm really absolutely enjoying this car. It's brilliant!
cyberface said:
Paul-C said:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=316904&f=23&h=0 Check page 3.
OK, I've read it, so what's your point other than you prefer the Holden to the MG? It's just an opinion - sounds like you've had a worse experience with your car. Mine's been perfect so far - done 400 miles this weekend and the supercharged engine is excellent... still needs time to loosen up as it still feels tight though.
Yes the Chevy V8s are 'better' than the Ford if you're talking specific output and new-technology, and it'd be nice if the MG had been fitted with an LS from the start, but it isn't and I'm simply glad that a big V8-powered rear-drive ZT was made in the first place.
The handling is excellent for a big, heavy car, and it's genuinely characterful and fun to drive. There's no point suggesting a BMW since nothing this side of the M5 has any character, and even then the M5 is only great when driven really fast. The MG entertains at low speeds as well (mostly due to the engine note).
Yes the new 500 bhp VXR is probably a faster car, but it's a *hell* of a lot more expensive than the MG, and IMO the MG looks much better both outside and in. Mine is a new, unregistered, supercharged and IMO very well put together quality saloon, for £22,000 all inc.
You can forgive a lot of faults for this sort of money (people forgive TVRs at 40k+++ FFS) but other than the underpowered aircon and the top heater hose, there *are* *no* major faults.
Perhaps you've had a troublesome example - I'm actually genuinely surprised that, as an owner, you're not that impressed with it - I think it's a great car. I'm used to mostly decent sports cars (check profile) and the idea of a big saloon filled me with dread... but I'm really absolutely enjoying this car. It's brilliant!
The point(s) are;
1. See badge on rear right.
13 to 16K to buy similar car (year 2000 HSV) plus 4K of Wortec upgrades = 500 real BHP, 550+ ft lbs and no speed limiter Add 2.5K of Wizards of NOS 250 BHP kit = 750 BHP. Car handles better, is lighter and better built. No contest.
Edited by Paul-C on Tuesday 28th November 14:31
Out of interest cyberface (your name not in your profile sorry) I have just sold my MG and replaced it with another HSV, a 2002 HSV GTS Clubsport. Yes the MG is a hell of a lot of a car for the money now but the 'restrictions' on tuning and the fact that it is inferior to Holdens' HSV for similar money swung it. If you fancy a drive more than happy to demo
Hmm.... "See badge on rear right"... Well yes, I can. Unfortunately the photo is taken from too far away to see what the badge actually says. Please enlighten us?
As for the comparison of a 2000 Holden to a 2006 260, yes, the price is similar, but one is a 6 year old car whilst the other isn't.
The thing that I find most puzzling is this hangup over the academic point of Dreadnought refusing to remove the 155mph limiter. How many situations are you really going to find yourself in where you have the potential to be running at over 155mph anyway? Then, in those situations where that sort of speed is realistic, in how many of them is a big, heavy 4 door saloon going to be the best car to do it in?
If you actually do spend a lot of time on Autobahns in the dead of night then I could see your point, but if you're purely talking about lapping the ring or something similar, and you have the money to buy more than one car as you clearly do, why on earth wouldn't you sink your extra £20k in to a proper racecar?
As for the comparison of a 2000 Holden to a 2006 260, yes, the price is similar, but one is a 6 year old car whilst the other isn't.
The thing that I find most puzzling is this hangup over the academic point of Dreadnought refusing to remove the 155mph limiter. How many situations are you really going to find yourself in where you have the potential to be running at over 155mph anyway? Then, in those situations where that sort of speed is realistic, in how many of them is a big, heavy 4 door saloon going to be the best car to do it in?
If you actually do spend a lot of time on Autobahns in the dead of night then I could see your point, but if you're purely talking about lapping the ring or something similar, and you have the money to buy more than one car as you clearly do, why on earth wouldn't you sink your extra £20k in to a proper racecar?
Paul-C said:
Out of interest cyberface (your name not in your profile sorry) I have just sold my MG and replaced it with another HSV, a 2002 HSV GTS Clubsport. Yes the MG is a hell of a lot of a car for the money now but the 'restrictions' on tuning and the fact that it is inferior to Holdens' HSV for similar money swung it. If you fancy a drive more than happy to demo
Heh, my name is in my profile, I just spell it without the vowels.
To be honest I didn't consider the Holden because I thought they were all 2-door coupes... didn't realise that there was a 4-door available. It would have been on the list had I known, I guess there aren't many around...
Having said that though, I don't really like the shape of the Holden and think the MG looks far better proportioned, and is a genuinely good looking car.
I take your point about 500 bhp available, I'd certainly do that if I had one. As to 750 bhp, well I'm not interested in nitrous so forget that.
I'm not really arguing with you here, the Holden sounds like a great car for the money (but only second hand). I presume you got a really duff MG (perhaps a very early or development car) because I simply can't believe that the Holden is *that* much better built than the MG. Unless the Holden is built like a early 90s Mercedes then I simply think you had a duff car. My MG is built very well and feels of excellent quality, it'd take modern Audi interior finish to be noticeably better.
It's the only thing I'm contesting here - let's forget the marque partisanship and celebrate the fact that there are a couple of *proper* V8 muscle saloons still available for us to buy in the UK, OK?
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