Jaguar V8 engine questions/concerns
Discussion
I am about to buy a jaguar xj8 that's only done 44k with fsh with main dealer??, I have just read about problems with timing chains, tensioners and nikosil liners?? The owner does not know if anythings been done as he has only owned for 1 year. Can anyone steer me in the right direction ?
Thanks
Danny
Thanks
Danny
V8 engines made up to 2000 were produced with a Nicasil bore finish, which is susceptible to wearing away when the car drives short journeys and uses high sulphur fuel.
The timing chain tensioners of the era your car was made had plastic bodies which can crack when aged, provide incorrect tension and allow the chains to jump, causing expensive damage.
In both cases you really need to have an 'expert' evaluate the car, this greatly reduces the risk of you having to spend substantial money on the car during the time you own it.
The timing chain tensioners of the era your car was made had plastic bodies which can crack when aged, provide incorrect tension and allow the chains to jump, causing expensive damage.
In both cases you really need to have an 'expert' evaluate the car, this greatly reduces the risk of you having to spend substantial money on the car during the time you own it.
You shouldn't need to worry about the Nikasil although a wee check will do no harm. The tensioners though are a must. If they haven't been done you are looking between £1000 and £1600 depending on where you go. Unless you hire the tools and do it yourself of course. I got £1200 off the price of my car because of this. Nothing has went badly wrong with myy 98 Xjr in the last 5 years and I love it. I did have a squeak from a pulley though that done my head in and I changed the lot icluding belts before I found out it was the tensioner pulley.
JagSteve is your man for a more in depth breakdown
JagSteve is your man for a more in depth breakdown
Don't buy unless the tensioners etc have been upgraded to the third generation metal versions (unlikely that this has been done if the mileage of 44,000 is genuine) unless the price is reduced by £1500 to reflect the cost of doing the job.
Should not be any Nikasil problems now.
If you proceed, consider changing gearbox and diff oil soon.
JaguarSteve will be along soon to give you chapter & verse!
R.
Should not be any Nikasil problems now.
If you proceed, consider changing gearbox and diff oil soon.
JaguarSteve will be along soon to give you chapter & verse!
R.
fast cars said:
I am about to buy a jaguar xj8 that's only done 44k with fsh with main dealer??, I have just read about problems with timing chains, tensioners and nikosil liners?? The owner does not know if anythings been done as he has only owned for 1 year. Can anyone steer me in the right direction ?
Thanks
Danny
Timing chains themselves are not always the problem - especially at such a low mileage and with a good history. IMO there is no need to even think about changing all the chains unless there is evidence of wear on any of the cam sprockets, guides or any slack in the chains. The usual clue to what you'll find is engine condition. Bright clean internals indicating regular oil changes is good, heavy brown deposits indicating the opposite or signs of overheating are not. Just open the oil filler cap and look. Thanks
Danny
What you do need to do is get the latest metal bodied secondary tensioners fitted. There have been three types available. Your 1998 car will have been fitted with the original dark red/orange mk 1 plastic bodied ones, actuated by engine oil pressure which either crack or disintigrate often with a warning rattle on cold start up.
Jaguar revised the design for the 2000 model year along with number of other engine changes to a cream/yellow mk 2 plastic bodied type. These also eventually fail but usually do so silently as chain tension is applied by a internal spring.
Even if you have evidence of a tensioner change on a reciept or assurance from the owner it's already been done that does not mean you don't have a potential problem as a lot of mk 1 tensioners were changed under warranty for the mk2 types to cure the cold start rattle. Jaguar introduced the Mk3 metal bodied tensioner on the new V8 engined XJ in 2003. These can be retro fitted to any 3.2 or 4.0 V8. If you're handy with the spanners and understand the basics of engine cam timing it's a simple enough DIY job. You can hire the timing tools needed from the JEC for £40 a week and tensioners and bolts will be about £80.
If you're not sure what type you have it's easy to remove the RH cam cover - the LH is a pita - and have a look to see what type is fitted.
Nicasil should no longer be a problem. The high Sulphur limit (<150ppm) fuel that was a contributing factor was phased out in Jan 2000 and not all Nicasil lined engines failed. Many that did or exhibited symptoms of failure were changed under warranty. Nicasil symptoms are poor cold starting, lumpy idle and excess crankcase pressurisation. Look for oil deposits in the intake trunking and on the throttle body. Exchange steel linered engines have a small metal tag at the rear of the rh bank.
Other V8 pre 2000 revision concerns are water pumps and throttle bodies. The plastic impellor vanes fall off leading to overheating. Check for this by removing the header tank cap when stone cold, start and run the engine up to 2k RPM a few times and look for steady coolant flow into the tank. There have been occasional thermostat failures. The thermostat housing is fragile. The clips securing coolant pipes can let go. Replace with proper Jubilee ones. New water pump with metal vanes is about £50, again it's an easy DIY fit. Look at the pump - if it has a black rubber gasket chances are it's the newer design.
Early throttle body actuation motors sufferd a fault as the motor is - under certain circumstances - unable to overcome engine vacuum leading to complete loss of power. Jaguar issued a recall and replacement on all affected cars over this as it was a serious saftey issue.
Other general things to do and watch out for with any XJ8 is get the gearbox oil and filter changed. Refilling to the correct level is a bit tricky and it's essential to use the correct Esso/Mobil LT71141 fluid. Diff oil should be changed too, there's no drain hole for this you have to suck the oil out through the filler hole. Use a full synthetic like Millers 75/90 Redline and not the Shell Spirax EP90 Jaguar recommend.
Gears should engage almost instantly and smoothly. If there's any hesitation in taking up drive or a thump when doing so, or a shrill whine from the gearbox under load than chances are the gearbox is dying through lubrication failure. A low mileage one should be OK but it's still essential to change the oil and filter to avoid problems later on.
I'd change every 30-40k or so. That's overkill maybe but oil is cheaper than a new box...
Rear shocks can rattle over bumps, front wishbone bushes fail leading to excess positive camber. Easy to spot just check front tyres for uneven wear, a little feathering is normal but heavy wear on the inside edges is not. A hard driven car will eat tyres, bushes and brakes.
Unlike earlier Jaguars the only serious hidden corrosion area on the 1997-2003 V8 cars seems to be the subframe V mount reinforcing plate behind the front shocks. Check both sides. This is an MOT fail and expensive to repair if badly gone. XJ8s can rust round the screens, usually in the bottom corners - lift the rubbers and look, and at the bottom of the front wings.
None of this should put you off - a good reasonable mileage 1997-2003 XJ is a lovely car to drive and own and offers unbelievable value for money. Buy the very best example you can find and spend a bit of time and money getting on top of the XJ8 issues and take care of the car and you should have no serious problems.
I can confirm from personal experience: mine is a '98 SV8 Daimler, but basically the same. I am its 2nd owner from 5 years old at 50k; now done 94k. Vanes came off the water pump following thermostat falure around 80k, so I had all the front end (timing etc) replaced then. I had no g/box issues, but had its oil changed last year (will have the final drive done this year - thanks, Steve).
Also had blow-by tests done annually (with main daler service) to reassure myself about the nicasil issue.
Very reliable (hope this is not a hostage to fortune) motor car.
Also had blow-by tests done annually (with main daler service) to reassure myself about the nicasil issue.
Very reliable (hope this is not a hostage to fortune) motor car.
MEC said:
NormanD said:
For the FULL job the parts cost that!!
Maybe he is JUST changing the TOP tensioners
Just secondary tensioners I believe, he reckons that generally all that's needed.Maybe he is JUST changing the TOP tensioners
Told me the primaries rarely fail and are unlikely to cause catastrophic failure if they do.
Recommended changing the secondary tensioners and water pump only.
If the secondaries are in poor condition consider changing the lower tensioners.
For the record, my 2001 XKR had the original mk2 tensioners as expected.
At 11 years old, and 40k on the clock, the original tensioners and water pump impeller looked as good as the day they were fitted.
Changed them anyway for peace of mind, but the originals did not have any cracking or flaws whatsoever, they barely showed any wear at all.
Regards
Edited by Emley on Tuesday 10th April 01:57
Edited by Emley on Tuesday 10th April 02:07
Changing the secondary tensioners is preventative maintainence to replace a known weak component. Changing all the chains, tensioners and guides is a repair usually needed due to lack of regular oil changes or overheating.
Every single picture I've seen of an engine undergoing a full timing chain change has had one thing in common - all the internal components are caked in brown deposits from heavily contaminated oil. It's no surprise under those circumstances that chains wear and PTFE components become brittle and fail.
My previous XJ8 had cracks in both mk2 tensioner bodies at 5 years old and 62k, one of which had got so bad the only thing holding the piston inside the body was the tension of the chain. It fell apart in my hand when I took it off. The engine was clean and bright inside and there was no evidence of any wear on the guides, sprockets or chains themselves. I did another 40k on the original chains with no problems and I know of another V8 that had a tensioner change and went on to 180k, again on the original chains.
Every single picture I've seen of an engine undergoing a full timing chain change has had one thing in common - all the internal components are caked in brown deposits from heavily contaminated oil. It's no surprise under those circumstances that chains wear and PTFE components become brittle and fail.
My previous XJ8 had cracks in both mk2 tensioner bodies at 5 years old and 62k, one of which had got so bad the only thing holding the piston inside the body was the tension of the chain. It fell apart in my hand when I took it off. The engine was clean and bright inside and there was no evidence of any wear on the guides, sprockets or chains themselves. I did another 40k on the original chains with no problems and I know of another V8 that had a tensioner change and went on to 180k, again on the original chains.
hi all just read all the above topics --very intresting u can learn alot from this site some helpfull people -i myself have a jaguar v8 4 litre petrol automatic---1999---86000 miles --im in love with itt- but 2 weeks ago i hit a problem --got in car at 8am in morning started engine --car was juddering & would nott settle smooth left it on tickover started making weird noises---so i turned engine off & left itt ---phoned a local jag specialist & he confirmed what id thought --timing chain tensioner had give way i think---so i got it on recovery & dropped it to him expecting the worst --after a day or 2--waiting which felt like weeks -he phoned me and told me he had stripped drivers side bank a i think?? that chain was ok --on passenger side after stripping the tensioner had fell apart--he warned me that now it was down to luck if had damaged any valves ?--so after a waiting game he replaced the tensioner for a metal one so he tells me --all back up & running he charged me 400-pounds all in i was very luck no damage was done----on phoning him back i asked about the driverssidetensioner he said upon checking it all looked ok -its the plastic one --so i ask how much to change this one he tells me 250.00 quid--i presume i should have had them both changed?? anyadvice appreciated--on oils for gearbox and so forth after reading all above comments its made me want to be sure my jag is bulletproof as its told of the v8 engine apart from the timing chain tensioners that is 
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lepop
Strictly about the S-Type, I've had both a 4.0 and 4.2 V8. The tensioners issues will apply to the 4.0 but not the 4.2 because the latter has the latest designed metal tensioners.
I had the 4.0 from almost new to around 75,000 over 3 1/2 years, no tensioners problems. Had I kept the car I would have had the tensioners replaced before 100,000 miles.
I had the 4.2 from 14 miles to 128,000 over 10 1/2 years, also no tensioners problem. I did ask the local JMD about replacing the tensioners at around 100,000 miles but they said they had never seen a 4.2 with tensioners problems, but they would happily quote for the job!
Moral: get the 4.2. It's a far better car than the 4.0 for a whole range of reasons.
I now have an XF 5.0 V8 Portfolio, and that's a whole different story.
R.
Strictly about the S-Type, I've had both a 4.0 and 4.2 V8. The tensioners issues will apply to the 4.0 but not the 4.2 because the latter has the latest designed metal tensioners.
I had the 4.0 from almost new to around 75,000 over 3 1/2 years, no tensioners problems. Had I kept the car I would have had the tensioners replaced before 100,000 miles.
I had the 4.2 from 14 miles to 128,000 over 10 1/2 years, also no tensioners problem. I did ask the local JMD about replacing the tensioners at around 100,000 miles but they said they had never seen a 4.2 with tensioners problems, but they would happily quote for the job!
Moral: get the 4.2. It's a far better car than the 4.0 for a whole range of reasons.
I now have an XF 5.0 V8 Portfolio, and that's a whole different story.
R.
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