Another XF 3.0 diesel blown engine (at 53,800 miles)

[craigjm]

Groomi the issue is low mileage around town driving which stuffs the regen process. If you stop the engine during a regen it dumps the diesel into the oil. All you need to do to make sure the engine stays good is to do regular long distance driving so that you never see the clear DFP instruction come on. On top of this if a regen is taking place don’t turn off the engine. You can tell if you are having an issue because your oil level will go up. If this happens get it dealt with fast.

Drive long distance and check oil every two weeks basically

[gduk0256]

Still don't know why I got no warnings, hadn't even heard of dpf regen let alone notice it was happening! Is there something that we're meant to see when it is in progress? AND no service warning when my sump was full of diesel. What gives?

[craigjm]

You can smell it happening because the burning soot has a distinctive smell to it. If you put the car in neutral when a regen is happening you will notice that the idles much higher at about 1100rpm rather than 700rpm.

If these two things are taking place don’t turn off the car continue to take it for a drive. Also. It’s about engine temperature not speed so if you are not in a 50mph zone manually change down and keep your car in a low gear and the revs up.

[gduk0256]

Weird...in 18 months I’ve never noticed any of this!!

[craigjm]

What type of driving have you been doing in the car?

[gduk0256]

15m there am 15m back pm, mostly M74@60/70

[craigjm]

gduk0256 said:

15m there am 15m back pm, mostly M74@60/70

So am average of say 150nmiles a week at an average speed about 40? If that’s the case then you have nothing to worry about the DPF should just get on with it’s stuff. Just be aware of stopping the engine mid regen by checking the idling revs when you go into neautral at the end of the drive and if they are a bit high open the door and check for the smell and the fans going.

[gduk0256]

Thanks. So a previous comment suggesting dodgy or leaking injector may be the culprit.
I need to stop speculating now! It's been a steep learning curve this week, and we'll know soon enough.......
After the rebuild I've to get the oil and filter changed initially at 500mls, then as per usual. If all is well and no sudden rises, I'll do it every 6,000 / 6 months.
Cheers!

[AmitG]

craigjm said:

...the DPF should just get on with it’s stuff. Just be aware of stopping the engine mid regen by checking the idling revs when you go into neautral at the end of the drive and if they are a bit high open the door and check for the smell and the fans going.

Does the car tell you when it's in the middle of a regen so that you know to keep it running? Or do you really have to check the idle rpm?

My Citroen DS5 would give a message on the instrumentation that said basically "DPF regen in progress, do not turn off engine"

[craigjm]

AmitG said:

craigjm said:

...the DPF should just get on with it’s stuff. Just be aware of stopping the engine mid regen by checking the idling revs when you go into neautral at the end of the drive and if they are a bit high open the door and check for the smell and the fans going.

Does the car tell you when it's in the middle of a regen so that you know to keep it running? Or do you really have to check the idle rpm?

My Citroen DS5 would give a message on the instrumentation that said basically "DPF regen in progress, do not turn off engine"

That’s the problem. Certainly the cars from the 00’s and the last one I drove which was a 15 plate didn’t indicate in any way. They will tell you if the DPF is full because you haven’t done enough higher speed driving but they won’t tell you when the regen starts and ends. If they had that warning then a light that went out when done the issues if people inadvertently aborting a regen and dumping diesel into the oil would be minimised

[AmitG]

craigjm said:

That’s the problem. Certainly the cars from the 00’s and the last one I drove which was a 15 plate didn’t indicate in any way. They will tell you if the DPF is full because you haven’t done enough higher speed driving but they won’t tell you when the regen starts and ends. If they had that warning then a light that went out when done the issues if people inadvertently aborting a regen and dumping diesel into the oil would be minimised

Crikey, that's terrible. No wonder it's such an issue.

I'm amazed that they don't have a dashboard warning when a regen is in progress, especially when a Citroen that costs less than half the money manages to have one. It's put me off getting one.

[w824gb3]

This doesn't make sense. If the sump really is full of fuel its not because of dpf regens. They would only cause a slight level rise but your motorway use is not going to cause dpf regen issue anyway.
It's more like a badly leaking injector. But there would be other symptoms such as a misfire on start up and lots of smoke comng out the exhaust. And where has all the sump oil gone for it to be replaced with fuel? Again if the engine was drinking all that oil you would be driving everywhere looking like you were bringing in a new pope!

[gduk0256]

I know, I'm struggling to make any sense of the symptoms, and total lack of any warning. No service indicator to flag up fuel in oil, no dpf warning no anything. When the indi Jag guy up here emptied it he said there was only about 1L oil, plus diesel. Yet it was indicating full.
The oil change was in June, it did take a 750ml top up in Sept, then went bang in October.
It was a 'lad' from another garage that topped it up (pretty much to full on the dash-I now know this is not advisable) Maybe filling it up did something, or the oil use prior to this flagged up an issue? Who knows??
Anyway, car gets retrieved from dealer (Taggarts, who have been very helpful-JLR at least agreed to cover initial investigation before they said NO, so no money wasted there) by engine rebuild people. Next stage is 3rd party warranty (😱😱😱) assessor to come and inspect the damage. I presume the assessor' s job depends on them being able to determine the best diagnosis for finding the escape clause. If this was the USA I'd have a lawyer.....Could make a courtroom drama out of this fiasco!! Maybe I'll get lucky.
I'm hoping one way or another I'll be mobile in 3-4 weeks. Watch out for new episode coming soon (A JAGFLIX ORIGINAL)

[Register1]

Pistonpants said:

Can I ask how much the rebuild is costing? (Thinking of buying a disco D4 with the 3.0 engine)

.
.
Also thinking of a D4

r1

[gduk0256]

2.9k + vat. = £3,480.
The engines should survive if driven within the parameters! Stuff no-one tells you about.

[mph]

gduk0256 said:

I know, I'm struggling to make any sense of the symptoms, and total lack of any warning. No service indicator to flag up fuel in oil, no dpf warning no anything. When the indi Jag guy up here emptied it he said there was only about 1L oil, plus diesel. Yet it was indicating full.
The oil change was in June, it did take a 750ml top up in Sept, then went bang in October.
It was a 'lad' from another garage that topped it up (pretty much to full on the dash-I now know this is not advisable) Maybe filling it up did something, or the oil use prior to this flagged up an issue? Who knows??
Anyway, car gets retrieved from dealer (Taggarts, who have been very helpful-JLR at least agreed to cover initial investigation before they said NO, so no money wasted there) by engine rebuild people. Next stage is 3rd party warranty (??????) assessor to come and inspect the damage. I presume the assessor' s job depends on them being able to determine the best diagnosis for finding the escape clause. If this was the USA I'd have a lawyer.....Could make a courtroom drama out of this fiasco!! Maybe I'll get lucky.
I'm hoping one way or another I'll be mobile in 3-4 weeks. Watch out for new episode coming soon (A JAGFLIX ORIGINAL)

How would he know there was only 1l of oil and the rest diesel as it wouldn't separate out once it was mixed ? I'm surprised you didn't have an oil pressure warning with that level of dilution.

When you say engines strewn about the workshop - how many exactly and do they all have the same problem ? What is the problem ?

[cptsideways]

Oil dilution is a rather common problem on many cars

There are a few issues

Lack of lubrication being the main one, this will will lead to bore wear which often will lead to engines consuming their own oil (BMW's & Renault) especially good for this, bearing failure as per these XF engines I assume cranks wrecked, seized spun bearings & overheated snapped rods, seizure & other nasty fails.


The Delphi injection systems seem especially prone to it

[gduk0256]

I don't know any more details about the numerously strewn JLR engines in the workshop, I think oil pump issues play a part (he thinks they need changed at 4 yrs/48k) but I'll discuss with him as the rebuild progresses. Leaking injectors etc and who knows what else.

[CornishRob]

OldGermanHeaps said:

I just checked, oversized aftermarket big end and main shells are available, £80, £120 for a crank regrind, £120 for an oil pump, £60 for gaskets.
I'm off to hunt for a bargain.

Interesting. Can you post up the link to these or the company that supplies them. I will post it over on the D4 forum.

I’m also assuming they don’t supply cranks? It’s a range issue this as I’ve only ever heard of the 3.0l snapping their cranks, which results in a new engine being required as there is no way to rebuild them. Plenty of discussion on the D4 forum and no one has ever managed to get the 3.0l rebuilt. There are companies who do recon the engine, but it’s supplied from JLR as a recon unit. There is no way around the purchase than from JLR! Again, plenty of discussion about companies offering £3k engine rebuilds, but research suggests they are all a con!

[davidkellighan]

I currently use a '60 3.0d as my daily driver (not the S version). It's currently on 99k miles. I do around 400 miles per week so I don't think I've had any DPF issues. That being said I got the 'service required' message on the dash around three months ago, even though it was still 9k miles away from needing a service. Took it in to my local Indy (prestige Jaguar in Paisley - a brilliant garage) who told me it must just be a faulty dash message and they reset it. I'm now worried that there may have been issues similar to the OP.

Can anyone suggest what I might look out for in the near future to safeguard against my engine blowing up? After hearing these stories I'm getting close to leasing a 2.0i XF . . . . .