Jaguar DPF issues
Discussion
Grimsby said:
Sheepshanks said:
The thing is, in this case it's just using the car normally. For many that's a matter of shortish commute, school runs, shopping trips etc. JLR could give cars to a few yummy mummies to simulate 'normal' use.
I don't think that the people who bought or leased one of Land Rover's faulty diesels really deserve the pejorative epithet mentioned two posts up. To develop the point made by the last poster. People who have bought 2.0L diesel SUVs from LR since September 2015 have encountered serious DPF problems - oil contamination and clogging. Yet others, who bought a Jaguar XE or F-Pace with the same engine and built to the same (EU6) emissions regime, have experienced no problems. How can this be?Easy.
By Spring 2014, JLR had built a good EU6 exhaust for the in-line AJ200D Jaguar XE. But when they tried to migrate it to the DS/Evoque, they found it wouldn't fit into the D8's engine compartment, transversely mounted. The modified aftertreatment arrangement they came up with proved to be too long, the DPF positioned too far from the turbo and, to compound matters, it relied on a dual-purpose DPF-SCR device (SCRF) that wasn't fully developed and hadn't been adequately tested. They also had a bit of bad luck with the EPA prosecution of VW so the NOx cheat devices all had to be torn out leaving their new SUVs to run in test mode all the time.
The consequences were profound. Forced to burn cooler to reduce the NOx output, the engines in these cars produced excessive quantities of soot. Passive regeneration barely worked at all (due to the complex chemistry of the exhaust hardware) meaning that all the soot collected had to be regenerated using post injection. The architecture of the exhaust dictated longer fuel burns to achieve the same oxidation rate. This all combined to increase fuel in oil dilution by a factor of 2 to 4, depending on driving style. The probability of interrupted active regenerations increased proportionally, leading to blocked DPFs and AMBER warnings. The software algorithms became overwhelmed by the inability of the DPF to regenerate and frequently crashed, leading to premature RED warnings. The AdBlue tank was inadequately sized for the "clean air" NOx processing, the extent of which hadn't been anticipated in the original design. The excessive post injection impacted fuel economy pushing the reported median (e.g. HJ, WhatCar) to about 37 mpg.
No special skills were required on the part of drivers to trigger a whole range of DPF issues. People just had to driver them "normally" in rural or urban environments (the way they had driven their EU5 diesel, for instance) and the problems appeared as if by magic.
I would expect someone in their fourth decade of working in this industry to be slightly more informed before slamming owners. On second thoughts, maybe not. Maybe this is precisely the attitude that's needed to work for Jaguar Land Rover. The same attitude that thinks of people forking out £40,000 to £50,000 for one of its shoddy products as "the great unwashed", uninformed idiots that will believe anything they are told and still keep coming back for more.
Edited by Grimsby on Wednesday 23 September 02:17
rallyeS2 said:
What type of jag is it? I’d wager an f-pace or e-pace with the same engine as the evoque we have (td4) There is a known issue with the DPF system in this particular engine. We have had our first failure on our 16k mile evoque which was flatly refused under warranty due to “driving style”. We eventually got a decent good Will contribution but our complaint is far from over. If it is this engine, give me a shout as I have some information you may find useful in your complaint.
Hi, I have recently incurred the red warning DPF full in my 2017 F Pace. No amber warning given prior to this but initial diagnostic indicates the car attempted to regenerate 400 miles previously but was unable to complete. Do you know if it is feasible for a diagnostic code error to prevent complete regeneration and I wondered what information you might have to assist my case.Burwood said:
Cobnapint said:
Does anybody know if this pantomime has carried on forward with the new i6 diesel in the F-Pace.
I should hope not....
I did wonder. And assume it will continue until they move to German engines (bmw I think)I should hope not....
It's not exactly a vote of confidence in their own engineering is it? The Ingenium engine range isn't that old (you could argue it's still in development) yet in 4 years time it's going to be pulled.
The board room must have accepted that it's not quite the success they were trumpeting and that the dpf issue isn't worth trying to solve in the long term. And that bringing BMW engines in would dent the 'Britishness' of the brand.
So it's maybe the case that the passing EV bandwagon is a convenient one for them to jump on.
Let's see if they can cock that one up.
The board room must have accepted that it's not quite the success they were trumpeting and that the dpf issue isn't worth trying to solve in the long term. And that bringing BMW engines in would dent the 'Britishness' of the brand.
So it's maybe the case that the passing EV bandwagon is a convenient one for them to jump on.
Let's see if they can cock that one up.
Cobnapint said:
It's not exactly a vote of confidence in their own engineering is it? The Ingenium engine range isn't that old (you could argue it's still in development) yet in 4 years time it's going to be pulled.
The board room must have accepted that it's not quite the success they were trumpeting and that the dpf issue isn't worth trying to solve in the long term. And that bringing BMW engines in would dent the 'Britishness' of the brand.
So it's maybe the case that the passing EV bandwagon is a convenient one for them to jump on.
Let's see if they can cock that one up.
BMWs are not immune to DPF issues. The board room must have accepted that it's not quite the success they were trumpeting and that the dpf issue isn't worth trying to solve in the long term. And that bringing BMW engines in would dent the 'Britishness' of the brand.
So it's maybe the case that the passing EV bandwagon is a convenient one for them to jump on.
Let's see if they can cock that one up.
Cobnapint said:
It's not exactly a vote of confidence in their own engineering is it? The Ingenium engine range isn't that old (you could argue it's still in development) yet in 4 years time it's going to be pulled.
The board room must have accepted that it's not quite the success they were trumpeting and that the dpf issue isn't worth trying to solve in the long term. And that bringing BMW engines in would dent the 'Britishness' of the brand.
So it's maybe the case that the passing EV bandwagon is a convenient one for them to jump on.
Let's see if they can cock that one up.
The problem isn’t the engine really. It’s the architecture of the vehicle it’s in. Some vehicles dictate that the dpf is too far from the heat source required. Those are the problem cars. The board room must have accepted that it's not quite the success they were trumpeting and that the dpf issue isn't worth trying to solve in the long term. And that bringing BMW engines in would dent the 'Britishness' of the brand.
So it's maybe the case that the passing EV bandwagon is a convenient one for them to jump on.
Let's see if they can cock that one up.
magpies said:
Newby question
I have a 2015 2.2D XF Sportbrake and now work from home and not my office 50 miles away. Will be retired soon so car will mostly be doing local runs and the odd proper journey (I have a TVR for fun). Will my XF likely suffer as per this thread?
Like most dpf'd diesels that don't do periodic long journeys, I'd say almost certainly yes.I have a 2015 2.2D XF Sportbrake and now work from home and not my office 50 miles away. Will be retired soon so car will mostly be doing local runs and the odd proper journey (I have a TVR for fun). Will my XF likely suffer as per this thread?
My understanding is that it's not the engine that's critical, it's the architecture. If the DPF is not sufficiently close to the exhaust manifold it will not heat up sufficiently to operate as it is designed to do. This is the problem with JR products. I do not know if it will be the same with Peugeot architecture.
R.
R.
The Leaper said:
My understanding is that it's not the engine that's critical, it's the architecture. If the DPF is not sufficiently close to the exhaust manifold it will not heat up sufficiently to operate as it is designed to do. This is the problem with JR products. I do not know if it will be the same with Peugeot architecture.
R.
It's the steel bodied JLR products with transverse engines that are using an updated (rehashed) version of the Ford EUCD platform, as I understand it, which just doesn't have space for the DPF to live where it needs to.R.
They're w
k anyway, so if you buy one you get what you deserve 
The Leaper said:
My understanding is that it's not the engine that's critical, it's the architecture. If the DPF is not sufficiently close to the exhaust manifold it will not heat up sufficiently to operate as it is designed to do. This is the problem with JR products. I do not know if it will be the same with Peugeot architecture.
R.
Missus has a Tiguan and the dpf doesn't get anywhere near hot enough in normal use to passive regen. So it does an active regen, we think about every 300 miles. The ECU will trigger one at 450 miles if it hasn't done one earlier anyway.R.
Touching a massive piece of wood, it works fine. The car pretty well only does 4 - 8 mile journeys, about 5000 miles per year. We always use V-Power diesel.
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