2009 XF 3.0 Diesel S

[RigbyE61]

Looking at replacing my BMW 530D with an XF. This particular one is the more powerful of the 2 3.0 Diesels and is on 100k miles with excellent and recent service history. Will hopefully be looking at it tonight.

Is there anything I need to be aware of or look out for?

[Evercross]

The obvious big issue is cracking of the plastic inlet manifolds. These are integrated into the plastic cam covers and turn brittle over time due to repeated heat cycles causing them to crack. Happens around the 70,000-100,000 mile mark. Symptoms are rough running and engine going into limp-mode.

Lots of smaller more annoying things like most other cars - interior lights with a mind of their own due to the touch-sensitive switching playing up (can lead to a flat battery if they turn themselves on when the car is parked), rotating air-vents that stop rotating (there's a youtube tutorial on how to fix that). Also check that the actuator on the balancing valve for the twin turbos has been replaced for the later type that doesn't corrode. Most will have been changed by now but mine wasn't and it leads to symptoms that can be mistaken for the cracked inlet manifolds. The new actuator thing is a cheap fix and the manifolds aren't!.

Also if it has heated and cooled seats there is a chance they won't be working properly. Not a deal breaker but it is a cheap fix if caught early as it'll be because the plastic ducts that carry the hot/cold air have come loose or cracked. If not sorted and someone repeatedly tries to use them it causes the heating/cooling element to burn out.

Its a great car and a great engine - I've had mine for two years now after owning a variety of VAG/BMWs and an Alfa or two and it is just a cut above the rest.

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 8th October 14:21

[RigbyE61]

Evercross said:

The obvious big issue is cracking of the plastic inlet manifolds. These are integrated into the plastic cam covers and turn brittle over time due to repeated heat cycles causing them to crack. Happens around the 70,000-100,000 mile mark. Symptoms are rough running and engine going into limp-mode.

Lots of smaller more annoying things like most other cars - interior lights with a mind of their own due to the touch-sensitive switching playing up (can lead to a flat battery if they turn themselves on when the car is parked), rotating air-vents that stop rotating (there's a youtube tutorial on how to fix that). Also check that the actuator on the balancing valve for the twin turbos has been replaced for the later type that doesn't corrode. Most will have been changed by now but mine wasn't and it leads to symptoms that can be mistaken for the cracked inlet manifolds. The new actuator thing is a cheap fix and the manifolds aren't!.

Also if it has heated and cooled seats there is a chance they won't be working properly. Not a deal breaker but it is a cheap fix if caught early as it'll be because the plastic ducts that carry the hot/cold air have come loose or cracked. If not sorted and someone repeatedly tries to use them it causes the heating/cooling element to burn out.

Its a great car and a great engine - I've had mine for two years now after owning a variety of VAG/BMWs and an Alfa or two and it is just a cut above the rest.

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 8th October 14:21

Thank you!

There are now 2 candidates. A 2009 S on 100k and a 2010 Luxury on 130k. Both are local so will try both.

[fatboy b]

You’d be looking at a suspension overhaul at that age and mileage. They’re heavy cars, so will bash the bushes and ball-joints.

Make sure the oil has been changed regularly. They can lunch the bottom end, but ‘it’s still low %.

I bought two new, so didn’t have to worry about that. They are cracking cars. My current R-S has been a teenager in the last few months with an £11k engine bill under warranty. But otherwise still a cracking car.

[Evercross]

fatboy b said:

You’d be looking at a suspension overhaul at that age and mileage. They’re heavy cars, so will bash the bushes and ball-joints.

You could say that of any car and that age and mileage though!

fatboy b said:

Make sure the oil has been changed regularly. They can lunch the bottom end, but ‘it’s still low %.

Regularly as in at correct mileage intervals or ideally less. The 'bottom end' problem stems from the oil becoming diluted with diesel caused by cars doing short journeys suffering from repeated (interrupted) DPF regeneration cycles. I suspect a high-mileage motorway cruiser will not have to worry about that so much. Also essential that the correct oil is used - any old 5w30 and/or low SAPs doesn't cut it - it has to be ACEA C1 5w30 compliant with WSS M2C934-B.

BTW no excuses for not changing it as it has to be one of the easiest engines to perform the job on as there's an integrated tube for attaching a vacuum pump for extracting the oil and the filter is located at the very top of the engine.

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 9th October 10:25

[ninjag]

If you can stretch to the facelift I would as many issues were addressed including relocating the dpf so it warms up faster, the crankshaft sleeves can't rotate and block the oil cooling holes etc.

[fatboy b]

Evercross said:

fatboy b said:

You’d be looking at a suspension overhaul at that age and mileage. They’re heavy cars, so will bash the bushes and ball-joints.

You could say that of any car and that age and mileage though!

fatboy b said:

Make sure the oil has been changed regularly. They can lunch the bottom end, but ‘it’s still low %.

Regularly as in at correct mileage intervals or ideally less. The 'bottom end' problem stems from the oil becoming diluted with diesel caused by cars doing short journeys suffering from repeated (interrupted) DPF regeneration cycles. I suspect a high-mileage motorway cruiser will not have to worry about that so much. Also essential that the correct oil is used - any old 5w30 and/or low SAPs doesn't cut it - it has to be ACEA C1 5w30 compliant with WSS M2C934-B.

BTW no excuses for not changing it as it has to be one of the easiest engines to perform the job on as there's an integrated tube for attaching a vacuum pump for extracting the oil and the filter is located at the very top of the engine.

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 9th October 10:25

Vacuum pump is not the best way to extract oil. Also, bottom end problems are caused by a design fault fixed in 2010.

[RigbyE61]

Thanks all for the advice!

Went to test drive one last night. It drove well, very nice interior and all was going well until a gearbox fault appeared on the dash and after it going into neutral it found 2nd gear and wouldn't go out of it. That car also had a few marks on the outside, rear parking sensors not working and rear camera was terrible quality (not sure if they all are?)

[blueacid]

RigbyE61 said:

Thanks all for the advice!

Went to test drive one last night. It drove well, very nice interior and all was going well until a gearbox fault appeared on the dash and after it going into neutral it found 2nd gear and wouldn't go out of it. That car also had a few marks on the outside, rear parking sensors not working and rear camera was terrible quality (not sure if they all are?)

The rear camera is normally perfectly good - it's a bit grainy, certainly not HD, but more than enough to spot any obstacle worth not crashing into. Of course a new car might have a higher definition sensor, but we're talking tech that's 10-15 years old here.

[Evercross]

fatboy b said:

Vacuum pump is not the best way to extract oil.

At the risk of going off-topic there is a difference between shoving a plastic hose down a dipstick pipe and hoping for the best and using a purpose-designed pipe that is integrated into the sump when extracting using a vacuum pump.

The debate about getting every last tiny drop of oil out and any significant difference that might make can rage on elsewhere, but I'd rather someone was changing the oil ever 7,000 because it was easy to do it rather than changing it at 15,000 or more because getting the undertray off / getting underneath with a bucket / dealing with an overtightened sump plug etc. etc. is a faff.

[RigbyE61]

blueacid said:

The rear camera is normally perfectly good - it's a bit grainy, certainly not HD, but more than enough to spot any obstacle worth not crashing into. Of course a new car might have a higher definition sensor, but we're talking tech that's 10-15 years old here.

That one must of had an issue then as it was especially bad, seemed cloudy and blurry. I had a 2007 Lexus GS and yea while the camera wasnt HD as you say it was fully usable, that XF wasn't.

May go and look at another one but having that one show the gearbox fault it has put me off them some what. Though im sure its probably isolated and not common.

[blueacid]

RigbyE61 said:

That one must of had an issue then as it was especially bad, seemed cloudy and blurry. I had a 2007 Lexus GS and yea while the camera wasnt HD as you say it was fully usable, that XF wasn't.

May go and look at another one but having that one show the gearbox fault it has put me off them some what. Though im sure its probably isolated and not common.

I mean notwithstanding the gearbox clearly needing some love, is it possible that this issue could've been fixed with carefully cleaning the lens of the camera? They seem to gather a load of grime quite easily - a damp microfibre cloth might well be the fix in this case!

[Evercross]

All reversing cameras eventually succumb to an amount of fogging through moisture ingress.

As for the gearbox I wouldn't be put off XFs in general as it is the same ZF autobox that is fitted to millions of BMWs as well as other marques. I'm willing to bet though that the fluid has never been changed, and at that mileage and with faults showing I reckon fresh fluid now will be too little to save it if not kill it completely.

It should have been done around the 60 - 75,000 mile mark and the general advice seems to be that if the change is missed and the fluid is allowed to bake it is better to leave it in there until the box dies.

Edited by Evercross on Thursday 10th October 12:37

[ninjag]

I was wondering if perhaps the snow mode button had been pressed as this stops the car using first gear, but if it's showing a fault on the dash then maybe not.

[RigbyE61]

Evercross said:

All reversing cameras eventually succumb to an amount of fogging through moisture ingress.

As for the gearbox I wouldn't be put off XFs in general as it is the same ZF autobox that is fitted to millions of BMWs as well as other marques. I'm willing to bet though that the fluid has never been changed, and at that mileage and with faults showing I reckon fresh fluid now will be too little to save it if not kill it completely.

It should have been done around the 60 - 75,000 mile mark and the general advice seems to be that if the change is missed and the fluid is allowed to bake it is better to leave it in there until the box dies.

Edited by Evercross on Thursday 10th October 12:37

More than likely is the same or similar version of gearbox that my 530D has. I think having that happen has just put the whole memory of the car has bad, although first impressions were good.

I do remember trying it in sport and a couple times it did jolt/clunk between changes but the failure happened when in D and going 40mph with no more than 30% throttle

[Glasgowrob]

Great cares and don't be put off by. One with gearbox issues (obviously do t buy that particular one)

Same 8 speed zf that's slung Into all the German stuff and pretty decent as far as autoboxes go


All the. Nigly. Stuff has been covered above and hold. Out for an S (275bhp) night. And day difference over the 240

Slthoigh.they.map exactly the. Same without mapping its a huge difference circa 100 lbs/ft of torque

Got. One of each in the. Family and despite being nothing. In. It. On paper. The S is far. Livlier

[ninjag]

Sounds like the fluid as previously mentioned. You can get a genuine kit for £260 and it's not a difficult job, there's even a full guide on the ZF site.

https://www.britishparts.co.uk/land-rover-c4/disco...

[RigbyE61]

What about the Facelift 2.2 D? Any common issues with these?

Same gearbox as the 3.0?

[ninjag]

RigbyE61 said:

What about the Facelift 2.2 D? Any common issues with these?

Same gearbox as the 3.0?

Main issue is turbo lag when coming out of a roundabout. 3.0d is much better suited to the car although unlike the 2.2d if you want to remap it then it's an ecu out job. Alternatively you can get a tuning box, although perhaps controversial with regard to how they work you can get three channel ones now which seem to get good reviews.

[Glasgowrob]

ninjag said:

Main issue is turbo lag when coming out of a roundabout. 3.0d is much better suited to the car although unlike the 2.2d if you want to remap it then it's an ecu out job. Alternatively you can get a tuning box, although perhaps controversial with regard to how they work you can get three channel ones now which seem to get good reviews.

looked at 2.2s ended up getting the 3.0Ds far better in every way apart from fuel consumption, that said can get a regular 45mpg fill to fill on ours,

yes you can map the 2.2 but you can also map the 3.0d mapped properly 320bhp and 525 lbs/ft of torque