No more Crackle and pops after update.
Discussion
LanceRS said:
Back in the good old days, cars popped and cracked on the overrun because carburettors and basic mechanical fuel injection was not precise enough to provide the full amount off fuel under load throughout the rev range and then stop when you took your foot off the throttle. The more heavily tuned for power (therefore the need for lots of fuel) the more pronounced. This only presented itself when accelerating the suddenly releasing the pedal, if you gently lifted off, no extra noises.
The result was over fuelling and the extra fuel igniting without the throttle. This is why it generally only happened on engines tuned for performance.
Similar things do still happen, McLarens on the upshift without lifting etc.
Modern electronics, injection systems can be mapped so accurately that this no longer needs to happen but some obviously misses it and has mapped it in, the trend has caught on and now the more sporty the car is supposed to be, the more artificial noises it has (Audi S3 etc).
In any event, if you have bought a car because of certain characteristics, the dealer should not be removing them. Imagine taking it in for a Service only for it to return with some sort of eco tyres rather than your Pilot Sport 4s!
Thanks for that. Could you explain a bit more?The result was over fuelling and the extra fuel igniting without the throttle. This is why it generally only happened on engines tuned for performance.
Similar things do still happen, McLarens on the upshift without lifting etc.
Modern electronics, injection systems can be mapped so accurately that this no longer needs to happen but some obviously misses it and has mapped it in, the trend has caught on and now the more sporty the car is supposed to be, the more artificial noises it has (Audi S3 etc).
In any event, if you have bought a car because of certain characteristics, the dealer should not be removing them. Imagine taking it in for a Service only for it to return with some sort of eco tyres rather than your Pilot Sport 4s!
In the good old days, and racing engines did that a lot as I recall, where was the secondary ignition taking place? I assumed that it was in the cylinder and vented out through the exhaust valves on the exhaust stroke. Otherwise would the engine not just explode or the piston come out through the side of the block? Does the artificial production of these noises not just do the same, while ensuring that the exhaust valves are open?
The Youtube clip I referenced suggested that this process caused the injectors to clog up, creating problems if a cleaning additive was not used at regular intervals.
I like the pops and crackles, but I would like them less if I thought they were wrecking the engine. Could JLR be motivated by not wanting a tranche of warranty claims for failed injectors?
The excess fuel is ignited in the hot exhaust, hence some cars producing flames.
I have an old Sierra Cosworth, the ecu dating back to the 80s. Because it is very basic, it is very limited in how many points can be accurately mapped, also injector technology has moved on a long way in the last 30 years.
Like carburettor jets, in order to get enough fuel for when it is needed, there is a trade off, where the system cannot react fast enough or because it is basic (very few sensors and a primitive computer) it is unable to manage the fuelling as efficiently. If at full throttle and boost high in the Rev range, the Sierra will flame on a quick gear change. Even in normal driving, the exhaust tip soots up fairly quickly. Back in the day a number of rear bumpers caught fire on enthusiastically driven, modified cars.
There was a slightly embarrassing trend about 20 years ago, to fit ‘flamer’ kits. These comprised of basically an ignition coil and spark plug fitted into the tail pipe. The result being any excess fuel coming through the exhaust was ignited and a flame produced.
There have been issues in more recent years with McLarens (and presumably other Supercars), where catalysts and turbos have been damaged by owners repeatedly reving the engine while stationary to produce the same effect.
I have an old Sierra Cosworth, the ecu dating back to the 80s. Because it is very basic, it is very limited in how many points can be accurately mapped, also injector technology has moved on a long way in the last 30 years.
Like carburettor jets, in order to get enough fuel for when it is needed, there is a trade off, where the system cannot react fast enough or because it is basic (very few sensors and a primitive computer) it is unable to manage the fuelling as efficiently. If at full throttle and boost high in the Rev range, the Sierra will flame on a quick gear change. Even in normal driving, the exhaust tip soots up fairly quickly. Back in the day a number of rear bumpers caught fire on enthusiastically driven, modified cars.
There was a slightly embarrassing trend about 20 years ago, to fit ‘flamer’ kits. These comprised of basically an ignition coil and spark plug fitted into the tail pipe. The result being any excess fuel coming through the exhaust was ignited and a flame produced.
There have been issues in more recent years with McLarens (and presumably other Supercars), where catalysts and turbos have been damaged by owners repeatedly reving the engine while stationary to produce the same effect.
I’ve just bought a 69 FTR and it’s noisy but only above 2k rpm on wide throttle openings.
Interestingly it’s back at the dealer having some things sorted. I have a 21 plate FTR 575 as a courtesy runabout. It’s very quiet in comparison. Only really get any noise in sport on the paddles when changing gear. Can’t wait to get mine back as I prefer the front end too.
Here the £111k courtesy car btw.
Interestingly it’s back at the dealer having some things sorted. I have a 21 plate FTR 575 as a courtesy runabout. It’s very quiet in comparison. Only really get any noise in sport on the paddles when changing gear. Can’t wait to get mine back as I prefer the front end too.
Here the £111k courtesy car btw.
Wow. This thread started out as a bit of a dumpster fire! It certainly seemed as though there was some jealousy on display. The pops and bangs are not an illegal feature.
Depending on who you listen to, the software update removes the pops and bangs in order to conform to UK Goverment noise regulations and/or to save the catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
Jaguar have replaced a fair few of these under warranty and have suggested the pops and bangs reduce the life of these components, thus the pops and bangs are removed to prevent further warranty claims. O2 sensors are now covered for up to 15 years (I think?!) with or without warranty - providing you’re a US owner!
The software update is real. It affects the V8 models. A few V6 owners have suggested their cars have been muted, but it’s mainly V8 owners. A good reason to choose an independent; cheaper, friendlier, probably do a better job and no mandatory updates!
Apparently, "Those of you with 2014-2016 Rs who are having reduced pops/crackles after the K309 software update need the JTB495 patch".
Ergo, head back to your dealership and ask for JTB495 to be applied to reinstate pops and bangs.
New 2020/2021 cars ... Remove fuse 15, apparently! I think it’s a bit like removing fuse 22 on a Vantage.
Depending on who you listen to, the software update removes the pops and bangs in order to conform to UK Goverment noise regulations and/or to save the catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
Jaguar have replaced a fair few of these under warranty and have suggested the pops and bangs reduce the life of these components, thus the pops and bangs are removed to prevent further warranty claims. O2 sensors are now covered for up to 15 years (I think?!) with or without warranty - providing you’re a US owner!
The software update is real. It affects the V8 models. A few V6 owners have suggested their cars have been muted, but it’s mainly V8 owners. A good reason to choose an independent; cheaper, friendlier, probably do a better job and no mandatory updates!
Apparently, "Those of you with 2014-2016 Rs who are having reduced pops/crackles after the K309 software update need the JTB495 patch".
Ergo, head back to your dealership and ask for JTB495 to be applied to reinstate pops and bangs.
New 2020/2021 cars ... Remove fuse 15, apparently! I think it’s a bit like removing fuse 22 on a Vantage.
Ikemi said:
Wow. This thread started out as a bit of a dumpster fire! It certainly seemed as though there was some jealousy on display. The pops and bangs are not an illegal feature.
Depending on who you listen to, the software update removes the pops and bangs in order to conform to UK Goverment noise regulations and/or to save the catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
Jaguar have replaced a fair few of these under warranty and have suggested the pops and bangs reduce the life of these components, thus the pops and bangs are removed to prevent further warranty claims. O2 sensors are now covered for up to 15 years (I think?!) with or without warranty - providing you’re a US owner!
The software update is real. It affects the V8 models. A few V6 owners have suggested their cars have been muted, but it’s mainly V8 owners. A good reason to choose an independent; cheaper, friendlier, probably do a better job and no mandatory updates!
Apparently, "Those of you with 2014-2016 Rs who are having reduced pops/crackles after the K309 software update need the JTB495 patch".
Ergo, head back to your dealership and ask for JTB495 to be applied to reinstate pops and bangs.
New 2020/2021 cars ... Remove fuse 15, apparently! I think it’s a bit like removing fuse 22 on a Vantage.
Jaguar wouldn't reapply the JTB495 software that brings the pops and bang back. Also, why would they do so if it's going to cause the issues that made them apply it in the first place?Depending on who you listen to, the software update removes the pops and bangs in order to conform to UK Goverment noise regulations and/or to save the catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
Jaguar have replaced a fair few of these under warranty and have suggested the pops and bangs reduce the life of these components, thus the pops and bangs are removed to prevent further warranty claims. O2 sensors are now covered for up to 15 years (I think?!) with or without warranty - providing you’re a US owner!
The software update is real. It affects the V8 models. A few V6 owners have suggested their cars have been muted, but it’s mainly V8 owners. A good reason to choose an independent; cheaper, friendlier, probably do a better job and no mandatory updates!
Apparently, "Those of you with 2014-2016 Rs who are having reduced pops/crackles after the K309 software update need the JTB495 patch".
Ergo, head back to your dealership and ask for JTB495 to be applied to reinstate pops and bangs.
New 2020/2021 cars ... Remove fuse 15, apparently! I think it’s a bit like removing fuse 22 on a Vantage.
beemarman said:
Ikemi said:
Wow. This thread started out as a bit of a dumpster fire! It certainly seemed as though there was some jealousy on display. The pops and bangs are not an illegal feature.
Depending on who you listen to, the software update removes the pops and bangs in order to conform to UK Goverment noise regulations and/or to save the catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
Jaguar have replaced a fair few of these under warranty and have suggested the pops and bangs reduce the life of these components, thus the pops and bangs are removed to prevent further warranty claims. O2 sensors are now covered for up to 15 years (I think?!) with or without warranty - providing you’re a US owner!
The software update is real. It affects the V8 models. A few V6 owners have suggested their cars have been muted, but it’s mainly V8 owners. A good reason to choose an independent; cheaper, friendlier, probably do a better job and no mandatory updates!
Apparently, "Those of you with 2014-2016 Rs who are having reduced pops/crackles after the K309 software update need the JTB495 patch".
Ergo, head back to your dealership and ask for JTB495 to be applied to reinstate pops and bangs.
New 2020/2021 cars ... Remove fuse 15, apparently! I think it’s a bit like removing fuse 22 on a Vantage.
Jaguar wouldn't reapply the JTB495 software that brings the pops and bang back. Also, why would they do so if it's going to cause the issues that made them apply it in the first place?Depending on who you listen to, the software update removes the pops and bangs in order to conform to UK Goverment noise regulations and/or to save the catalytic converters and O2 sensors.
Jaguar have replaced a fair few of these under warranty and have suggested the pops and bangs reduce the life of these components, thus the pops and bangs are removed to prevent further warranty claims. O2 sensors are now covered for up to 15 years (I think?!) with or without warranty - providing you’re a US owner!
The software update is real. It affects the V8 models. A few V6 owners have suggested their cars have been muted, but it’s mainly V8 owners. A good reason to choose an independent; cheaper, friendlier, probably do a better job and no mandatory updates!
Apparently, "Those of you with 2014-2016 Rs who are having reduced pops/crackles after the K309 software update need the JTB495 patch".
Ergo, head back to your dealership and ask for JTB495 to be applied to reinstate pops and bangs.
New 2020/2021 cars ... Remove fuse 15, apparently! I think it’s a bit like removing fuse 22 on a Vantage.
A quick find:
Anyway, that’s the patch! Or just get the car mapped by VAP!
I test drove a V8 on a 68 plate today. Loved the drive but was very dissapointed with the lack of noise. Put me off buying one all together.
I much preferred the drive of the F-Type to my current car (C63 Bi-Turbo), but the sound from the AMG blows the F-Type away - or at least the one I drove. A real shame
I much preferred the drive of the F-Type to my current car (C63 Bi-Turbo), but the sound from the AMG blows the F-Type away - or at least the one I drove. A real shame
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