F-Types - Astonishing Value!

[craigjm]

piquet said:

just out of interest, can you remove the ppf? would it give you the noise back and would it fail anything, just thinking....

Might fail on emissions for the MOT

[PinkHouse]

craigjm said:

piquet said:

just out of interest, can you remove the ppf? would it give you the noise back and would it fail anything, just thinking....

Might fail on emissions for the MOT

Pre PPF cars manage to pass their MOTs fine so what's the difference? Or do the tests compare the emissions to manufacturer published figures for each model year?

[craigjm]

PinkHouse said:

craigjm said:

piquet said:

just out of interest, can you remove the ppf? would it give you the noise back and would it fail anything, just thinking....

Might fail on emissions for the MOT

Pre PPF cars manage to pass their MOTs fine so what's the difference? Or do the tests compare the emissions to manufacturer published figures for each model year?

One for the ask a mot inspector thread I suggest. There has to be some way of identifying the removal and punishing it otherwise everyone is just going to take them off at some point. If it’s not in the mot now then I guess it soon will be.

[jagseven]

Low miles but not cheap - looks a bit plasticky too…

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303315...

[craigjm]

jagseven said:

Low miles but not cheap - looks a bit plasticky too…

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303315...

Jesus

[reddiesel]

No problem with passing an MOT Test , its actually a relatively common practise amongst F Type Owners and your average MOT Tester would have zero knowledge of PPF and think it was something fitted to high end cars to prevent stone chips

Edited by reddiesel on Saturday 1st April 18:17

[cardigankid]

reddiesel said:

cardigankid said:

That is where you are fundamentally wrong, you cannot separate out these two factors. Crap cars won't be collectible, except by the ignorant, and they will soon get weeded out. Simples.

No it’s not simple nor am I fundamentally wrong either . A classic car is as much an emotional purchase as anything else and a quick walk around the NEE Classic Show will show plenty of crap cars with thriving ownership clubs and enthusiastic owners . The halo cars as my friend above tend to make the money and whether that’s Countach over Urracco or SVR over a V8 S it’s always been largely the same

Yes, I suppose that Morris Marinas, Minors and Hillman Avengers have their following. While I wouldn't have one of these in a gift, I have to say that the Hillman Avenger Tiger was a fine and interesting, and now probably quite rare, car.

Maybe we need to separate investment value from enthusiast following. You seem to me to be saying that the halo car will always be the best investment. (I think that you have proved yourself that pretty run of the mill cars can still have loyal supporters.) This will often be true, I accept, but just not on every occasion, and the quality of the car to the discerning car enthusiast is the major factor.

JLR themselves have really got themselves in a mess, largely by following political diktat. In the end politicians regard private industry as a world which is always rolling in money, and if they get their decisions wrong, even if the politicians are directly responsible for those decisions, well, they took the investment decision, and it is their lookout. The politicians will always walk away from the mess.

Years ago, I set out a list of things JLR needed to do to sort their business out. They haven't done any of them, and I would say the end of the road is looming. Of course, Ratan Tata has plenty of other fish to fry, and there is no reason he should listen to an ageing keyboard warrior with a bee in his bonnet, but its a pity all the same. I argued with the management of BL back in the day and they had every slick management reason to believe that they were right and I was wrong, as they drove that business into oblivion.

[craigjm]

cardigankid said:

Years ago, I set out a list of things JLR needed to do to sort their business out. They haven't done any of them, and I would say the end of the road is looming. Of course, Ratan Tata has plenty of other fish to fry, and there is no reason he should listen to an ageing keyboard warrior with a bee in his bonnet, but its a pity all the same.

You do realise he has been retired for 10 years don’t you?

[TheCoot]

reddiesel said:

No it’s not simple nor am I fundamentally wrong either . A classic car is as much an emotional purchase as anything else and a quick walk around the NEE Classic Show will show plenty of crap cars with thriving ownership clubs and enthusiastic owners . The halo cars as my friend above tend to make the money and whether that’s Countach over Urracco or SVR over a V8 S it’s always been largely the same

In general I would agree with you Red. However, it will be interesting to see in time how the F Type R 75 fares against the SVR given the R 75 has the P575 engine and all the underpinnings of the SVR plus revised suspension over the SVR. So on paper, one might say the R 75 is a superior car to the SVR since it is an evolution of the same. That said, both are halo cars in their day.

Of course, none of us know what electrification is going to do for residuals. The only thing we can be sure of, is we can't be sure of anything!!

[craigjm]

TheCoot said:

Of course, none of us know what electrification is going to do for residuals. The only thing we can be sure of, is we can't be sure of anything!!

Yep and even electrification may not happen with yeh recent attempts to get e-fuels included

[TheCoot]

craigjm said:

Yep and even electrification may not happen with yeh recent attempts to get e-fuels included

I know where you're coming from Craigjm. I think we know it is going to happen though and that's no bad thing in my book. But it would be nice to think ICE cars could live along side EV's if fuel of the future didn't produce toxins and could be used in existing engines. Cake and eat it I know but one can hope.

[reddiesel]

TheCoot said:

In general I would agree with you Red. However, it will be interesting to see in time how the F Type R 75 fares against the SVR given the R 75 has the P575 engine and all the underpinnings of the SVR plus revised suspension over the SVR. So on paper, one might say the R 75 is a superior car to the SVR since it is an evolution of the same. That said, both are halo cars in their day.

Of course, none of us know what electrification is going to do for residuals. The only thing we can be sure of, is we can't be sure of anything!!

It will be interesting and I wouldn't mind a go in the R75 if I am honest . Can I ask if you think Jaguar get themselves in a mess with all these various Model names ? Brand Stretching I think they call it . I wonder how much it actually increases Sales of what is for most of us a specialised purchase .

[ettore]

reddiesel said:

It will be interesting and I wouldn't mind a go in the R75 if I am honest . Can I ask if you think Jaguar get themselves in a mess with all these various Model names ? Brand Stretching I think they call it . I wonder how much it actually increases Sales of what is for most of us a specialised purchase .

Doesn’t seem to do Porsche any harm.

[TheCoot]

reddiesel said:

It will be interesting and I wouldn't mind a go in the R75 if I am honest . Can I ask if you think Jaguar get themselves in a mess with all these various Model names ? Brand Stretching I think they call it . I wonder how much it actually increases Sales of what is for most of us a specialised purchase .

I don't know if Jag get themselves in a mess with all the various model names. I think it can be confusing for customers though. That said I think most serious enthusiasts tend to do their research, so the brand stretching (good term) just makes the research a little more tedious. Some of the brand stretching seems to be purely cosmetic changes which I do think is annoying personally. Whilst other model names (such as the P400, SVR and R75) are genuine technical changes (engines tweaks, suspension etc) along with some cosmetic changes.

As for Porsche, in fairness, I can't think of many purely cosmetic changes without any technical changes they make as a rebranded model. Each model does tend to have technical differences......there's just a lot of them :-)

[cardigankid]

craigjm said:

cardigankid said:

Years ago, I set out a list of things JLR needed to do to sort their business out. They haven't done any of them, and I would say the end of the road is looming. Of course, Ratan Tata has plenty of other fish to fry, and there is no reason he should listen to an ageing keyboard warrior with a bee in his bonnet, but its a pity all the same.

You do realise he has been retired for 10 years don’t you?

I hadn't - I did not think that guys like that ever actually retired!

Anyway, I have talked myself into laying down an F-Type for future use - my choice would be a V6 400 Sport, i.e. the most powerful of the supercharged V6's. The V8's are great but I have other things to scratch that itch. To the extent that F-Types may become collectable, I would expect that to be quite a sought after variation. Any views welcome.

[reddiesel]

I think Porsche is a complete marketing phenomenon . Essentially an SUV manufacturer though regarded as Sports Car manufacturer you only have to take a look at their Forum on here to see how enthusiastic and knowledgeable some of the Owners are . I have to admire the manufacturers propensity for attaching the term GT to the 911 , artificially limit supply and then sit back and count their money .

[craigjm]

reddiesel said:

I think Porsche is a complete marketing phenomenon . Essentially an SUV manufacturer though regarded as Sports Car manufacturer you only have to take a look at their Forum on here to see how enthusiastic and knowledgeable some of the Owners are . I have to admire the manufacturers propensity for attaching the term GT to the 911 , artificially limit supply and then sit back and count their money .

Porsche's masterstroke is not the 911. Thats a car that really shouldnt work in the modern world but they wont dare can it. The masterstroke was the original Boxster and it absolutely reinvigorated the brand so much so that the modern versions, alongside the hard top can now be sold in what was 911 territory not so long ago. I do wonder what would have happened if the obscure law had not blocked the take over of VW, how different the landscape would be today.

I cant help thinking the F-type would have sold more if they had made it a Boxster, Cayman competitor. Engine availability really killed that and has been a millstone for Jaguar for some time. If you only have a hammer every problem is a nail. A sports car is not about a big v8 its about lightness and agility.

[a8hex]

craigjm said:

Porsche's masterstroke is not the 911. Thats a car that really shouldnt work in the modern world but they wont dare can it. The masterstroke was the original Boxster and it absolutely reinvigorated the brand so much so that the modern versions, alongside the hard top can now be sold in what was 911 territory not so long ago. I do wonder what would have happened if the obscure law had not blocked the take over of VW, how different the landscape would be today.

I cant help thinking the F-type would have sold more if they had made it a Boxster, Cayman competitor. Engine availability really killed that and has been a millstone for Jaguar for some time. If you only have a hammer every problem is a nail. A sports car is not about a big v8 its about lightness and agility.

Porsche & the 911 have long been a point of irritation in the "Jaguar world"
Why was Porsche able to keep making new 911s, even when they thought of killing it they weren't able to, when Jaguar got castigated for making another XJ. The motoring press kept being excited to see a new 911 whereas at least in the UK the same journalist criticised Jaguar for trying to evolve the idea of the XJ.

craigjm said:

If you only have a hammer every problem is a nail. A sports car is not about a big v8 its about lightness and agility.

Jaguar's sports cars weren't ever about lightness, the XK engine was a heavy old lump. The chassis frames of the XKs were cut down saloon chassis and weighed a ton. But I get where you're coming from.
Jaguar have never made enough cars to be able to afford the luxury of a range of engines so they had to make do with the ones they had and make those do as many jobs as possible. When they've produced smaller engines they've been cut down versions of the full size engine, the V6 uses the V8's block and the old 2.4 used a shortened version of the full sized XK block.

[craigjm]

Yeah and that has been the problem with Jaguar going right the way back to William Lyons days. Lack of resources leads to a make do and mend approach which has limited progress because lack of engine choice, lack of platform choice etc. I dont think for one minute that if Lyons had been a younger man that the XJS would have been on sale so long or the XJ40 would have evolved through two generations. Given the investment he would have done something different I would say and he may have even been very excited with the idea or modern technology, screens and electric propulsion.

Ill get my coat

[EVOTECH3BELL]

craigjm said:

Yeah and that has been the problem with Jaguar going right the way back to William Lyons days. Lack of resources leads to a make do and mend approach which has limited progress because lack of engine choice, lack of platform choice etc. I dont think for one minute that if Lyons had been a younger man that the XJS would have been on sale so long or the XJ40 would have evolved through two generations. Given the investment he would have done something different I would say and he may have even been very excited with the idea or modern technology, screens and electric propulsion.

Ill get my coat

They literally have their own engine plant producing their own engines. So not sure how you can say then don't have the choice of engines or the investment.