RE: Jaguar reveals new sports saloon
Discussion
DS76 said:
To all the cynics out there...I have seen the production version of this car. It's not identical to the concept car - they rarely are - but not a million miles away either - it will do well, no doubt about that. Knocks it's competitors into the ground.
How much different???? whats been dropped? is it the same outside?......
come on... we need more info!
I'm afraid I think this car looks absolutely awful. It's nothing more than a Mondeo with a bit more chrome, a grill and some crappy headlights which appear to have been quickly cut into the panelling. I honestly think that this car features very dodgy and - dare I say it - tacky styling, as does the XK (although the XK still looks pretty good to be fair). The bodywork of a Jaguar should flow. It's got to be elegant and muscular but certainly not boxy. So why the high shoulder line with that hideous crease that curves into the tail just as it does on a Mazda 6? Why rear-light detailing stolen straight from the Saab Aero-X concept but far less elegantly integrated? And why, oh why, those horrendous headlights? I think Jaguar are clutching at straws, desperately trying to find a new, profitable identity, and it seems apparent that Ford’s financial woes are having an effect on what used to be a fine marque. If they decide to build the XF then I’m sure it will sell well, just as the bland Ford Focus does, but I’ve certainly lost all interest in their products.production XF testing here...
http://news.windingroad.com/body-styl
http://news.windingroad.com/body-styl
HUGE said:
Jaguar kept my deposit for 2 years for the "F-type"....then canned the project to develop a diesel engine...
I wouldnt go near them with a barge-pole now....anyone actually think they will build this ??...or anything remotely resembling it ??...dream on.....
I wouldnt go near them with a barge-pole now....anyone actually think they will build this ??...or anything remotely resembling it ??...dream on.....
Sorry but this whole "diesel cancelled the F-type" thing is a complete myth.
The diesel V6 engine program was well under way before the F-type was cancelled and was part of a wider JV agreement with Peugeot/Citroen & Ford and later Land Rover, with Ford being the one who actually designed & developed the engine. The I-4 diesel in 'X' type was already developed. It's worth considering that these diesels now contribute to the majority of Jaguar sales in the UK & EU, and whilst these diesels may not have reversed the fortunes of the existing Jaguar range they may have made the best of a very bad situation, and possibly done enough to save Jaguar from going completely over the precipice.
Also one of the fringe benefits of developing the V6 (& V8) diesel is helping Jaguar's sister company Land Rover be very profitable (in fact so profitable there are not entirely unbelievable rumours that LR is second only to Porsche in terms of profit-per-vehicle). In terms of R&D Jaguar and LR are one company and a profitable LR allows Jag to develop stuff that otherwise would not have been economic to do so.
I know people who worked on the F-type and I'm certain it would have been an awesome car, but I'm sure even they would say that it alone would not have saved Jag from its recent troubles.
I also would love to see a new affordable F-type, but to have any chance of being made it would probably have to be based of a shortened XF.
Am scared to reply but oh shit. My first impression was Seat Leon front welded to a new mondeo body with an Andreas Zapawhatsit arse end, via some very high sills.
The production model will look better, only minor problems and I've no doubt my opinion will change with time but this was not what I'd expected at all. A new styling direction to be sure, and of course better looking than a 5 series, but it looks very euro ford to me.
Punch me.
Ali.
Edited to say that I've just watched a bit of that jaguar-design.com site, and am converting. Some of the interior design details look tasty - minimilist to be sure but thats the new automotive zen, and I think done right it works. Cars are becoming sculpture, big, sweeping design influences of simple elegance and all that goff. Love the sketches, have confidence in this. And if they keep the machined alluminium around a meshed leon grille, it won't look too bad either.
The production model will look better, only minor problems and I've no doubt my opinion will change with time but this was not what I'd expected at all. A new styling direction to be sure, and of course better looking than a 5 series, but it looks very euro ford to me.
Punch me.
Ali.
Edited to say that I've just watched a bit of that jaguar-design.com site, and am converting. Some of the interior design details look tasty - minimilist to be sure but thats the new automotive zen, and I think done right it works. Cars are becoming sculpture, big, sweeping design influences of simple elegance and all that goff. Love the sketches, have confidence in this. And if they keep the machined alluminium around a meshed leon grille, it won't look too bad either.
Edited by FestivAli on Thursday 4th January 08:54
well after looking at the XF road test car im very dissapointed, from what i can tell they have kept very little of the original C-XF,
Normal door handles
Normal boring headlamps and tail-lamps
boring front bumper
I guess time will tell but it looks like ill still be after the XKR... once again jaguar has built a boiling hot car then turned it into a luke warm producion car.
Normal door handles
Normal boring headlamps and tail-lamps
boring front bumper
I guess time will tell but it looks like ill still be after the XKR... once again jaguar has built a boiling hot car then turned it into a luke warm producion car.
GO FOR IT PHIL! Horse_Apple said:
The current range does tend to appeal to the old Rover type owners and that market is still shrinking fast. The world is conditioned now to expect more bling etc.
Also, they can keep that market happy through trim variations. Look at MG Rover. Before their demise, they were actually selling quite well - and MG was outselling Rover, despite their being few mechanical differences. All it takes is a wooden dashboard block and chrome in place of plastic - and those can all be options-list items.
I think it looks absolutely gorgeous. I like the way they've managed to completely modernise the look whilst maintaining a sense of Jaguar continuity - they've drawn upon the styling of the 420 and the XJ6 S1 - ie the successors to the original '60s S-Type - and somehow managed to maintain total modernity.
I wish them luck and I really hope they make it. Since the XK180 we've had stunning concepts every other year and they've built precisely none of them.
brakedust300 said:
well after looking at the XF road test car im very dissapointed, from what i can tell they have kept very little of the original C-XF,
Normal door handles
Normal boring headlamps and tail-lamps
boring front bumper
I guess time will tell but it looks like ill still be after the XKR... once again jaguar has built a boiling hot car then turned it into a luke warm producion car.
Normal door handles
Normal boring headlamps and tail-lamps
boring front bumper
I guess time will tell but it looks like ill still be after the XKR... once again jaguar has built a boiling hot car then turned it into a luke warm producion car.
Any link to where you saw these pictures?
wheeljack said:
I know people who worked on the F-type and I'm certain it would have been an awesome car, but I'm sure even they would say that it alone would not have saved Jag from its recent troubles.
Am I right in thinking one of the problems was that the I-6 engine extended beyond the engine cover and went under the bodyshell, but was so tight you couldn't change one or two sparkplugs without dropping the engine?
Oh...Phil...I think they meant it looks like the Iosis concept (next Mondeo), which it does to some degree. IMHO it's VERY Aston Martin from the A-pillar back.
havoc said:
wheeljack said:
I know people who worked on the F-type and I'm certain it would have been an awesome car, but I'm sure even they would say that it alone would not have saved Jag from its recent troubles.
Am I right in thinking one of the problems was that the I-6 engine extended beyond the engine cover and went under the bodyshell, but was so tight you couldn't change one or two sparkplugs without dropping the engine?
Sure it was a Hi-Power version of the V6. I think the sparkplug access problem exists on the current V8 RWD Jags, so they use longlife iridium plugs.
wheeljack said:
I think the sparkplug access problem exists on the current V8 RWD Jags, so they use longlife iridium plugs.
Still bleedin' stupid. Design first, maintenance second*.
And sadly Honda isn't entirely immune...the back-end of the rocker cover (but thankfully no plugs) on the S2000 is under the plastic drain scuttle at the foot of the windscreen...not looked to see if the plastic can be removed or not, would hope so... * Think headlights...how many modern cars (Audi are notorious) can the owner NOT change the bulbs on, e.g. because there is not space behind the lamp assembly to remove/refit, or because it's stuck in a corner (Mondeo front indicator IIRC).
havoc said:
wheeljack said:
I think the sparkplug access problem exists on the current V8 RWD Jags, so they use longlife iridium plugs.
Still bleedin' stupid. Design first, maintenance second*.
And sadly Honda isn't entirely immune...the back-end of the rocker cover (but thankfully no plugs) on the S2000 is under the plastic drain scuttle at the foot of the windscreen...not looked to see if the plastic can be removed or not, would hope so... * Think headlights...how many modern cars (Audi are notorious) can the owner NOT change the bulbs on, e.g. because there is not space behind the lamp assembly to remove/refit, or because it's stuck in a corner (Mondeo front indicator IIRC).
Know what you mean! Although, 95% of the time there are bloody good reasons why these things are a bitch for maintenance, and 100% of the time the designers can't remember why! Should see the TDV8 installation in the Range Rover's, complete nightmare!
Still that's why I like my trev, it's an absolute doddle to work on.
Edited by wheeljack on Thursday 4th January 10:06
Well said, Phil! In no way does this Jag look like a Mondeo. Let's hope it really goes into production.
If we start commenting on resemblences, every car in the world could be bashed - let's start with the Merc CLS, shall we?
IMHO, though loopy, the S-Type, never looked bad and this C-XF is nothing short of stunning. Well done, Jaguar!
If we start commenting on resemblences, every car in the world could be bashed - let's start with the Merc CLS, shall we?
IMHO, though loopy, the S-Type, never looked bad and this C-XF is nothing short of stunning. Well done, Jaguar!
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