RE: Eagle E-Type
Discussion
quote:
Better you than me Austin. Like I said, I've got "issues" with the Sport set-up. The steering is heavier than deuterium and more direct than Federal Express (take that Clarkson!).
Anorak mode on: WTF does than mean? Deuterium, being an isotope of hydrogen, is still as light as helium (probably a bit lighter), so not exactly the best element to pick to give the impression of great weight.
I'm sorry but glaring scientific inaccuracies are just one of those things that really wind me up - like 'organic' on food labelling. 'Organic' means carbon based - what food isn't???
Edited to add: Bugger! Niel got in there just as I was posting
- And he does mean lighter than it, in that they are less dense (ignoring the fact that a vacuum is an abscence of anything therefore cannot have a weight) >> Edited by Fatboy on Thursday 28th March 11:48
You're quite correct Mr Farago....
don't listen to these berkinalds - I understood the metaphor and it is valid...
Deuterium is a Hydrogen isotope with an extra neutron.. which doubles it's atomic weight to 2..
heavy Water is water made from 2x deuterium+1x oxygen instead of standard 2x hydrogen+ 1x oxygen..
(all IIRC, IMO etc)..
And FWIW tritium is the third hydrogen isotope with a further neutron in the nucleus.. giving it an atomic weight of 3.
>> Edited by CarZee on Thursday 28th March 12:22
don't listen to these berkinalds - I understood the metaphor and it is valid...
Deuterium is a Hydrogen isotope with an extra neutron.. which doubles it's atomic weight to 2..
heavy Water is water made from 2x deuterium+1x oxygen instead of standard 2x hydrogen+ 1x oxygen..
(all IIRC, IMO etc)..
And FWIW tritium is the third hydrogen isotope with a further neutron in the nucleus.. giving it an atomic weight of 3.
>> Edited by CarZee on Thursday 28th March 12:22
Oh Dear!
I think Robert will agree with that remark, and this:
Please don't imagine that the original was similar to the Eagle, except in appearance. They may look the same, but they certainly aren't.
Having had two years of knocking the backside off what was virtually a pre-production E-Type I remember the experience vividly. Why? Because it was the most complete road rocket ever built, in all departments including handling and performance.
The other 'Why'? Because I had to report back to the Headmaster at Jaguar regarding every little thing (and some big things too!) which the car did in my rash and youthful hands.
It went back to the factory for remedial work when necessary, and the 42 major faults and failings I logged were subsequently eradicated when proper production got under way.
But, and it's an important 'but', none of these faults had anything whatsoever to do with the basic characteristics of the car.
Suffice to say that it is the only car I have been able to 'drift' on the public road with total confidence. If Eagle had been able to replicate the original suspension, and put the thing on cross-plies,
Robert would have had a very different story to tell.
I haven't time to write a 'Road Test' of the original right now, but I do hope what I have said redresses the balance to some extent!
I think Robert will agree with that remark, and this:
Please don't imagine that the original was similar to the Eagle, except in appearance. They may look the same, but they certainly aren't.
Having had two years of knocking the backside off what was virtually a pre-production E-Type I remember the experience vividly. Why? Because it was the most complete road rocket ever built, in all departments including handling and performance.
The other 'Why'? Because I had to report back to the Headmaster at Jaguar regarding every little thing (and some big things too!) which the car did in my rash and youthful hands.
It went back to the factory for remedial work when necessary, and the 42 major faults and failings I logged were subsequently eradicated when proper production got under way.
But, and it's an important 'but', none of these faults had anything whatsoever to do with the basic characteristics of the car.
Suffice to say that it is the only car I have been able to 'drift' on the public road with total confidence. If Eagle had been able to replicate the original suspension, and put the thing on cross-plies,
Robert would have had a very different story to tell.
I haven't time to write a 'Road Test' of the original right now, but I do hope what I have said redresses the balance to some extent!
Just to agree with Carzee and add my little bit. 'Heavy Water' is still not that heavy - the mass gain over standard water is still only 11%, a better elemental comparison might have been uranium or plutonium, as they are F***ing heavy
Can't help the anorak mode, we all have our little bugbears, and this one is mine
Edited to add: Forgot to say that I still enjoyed the article, even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I was kind of enamoured with the idea of an e-type that drove like a modern sprots car, shame. (Still at least it saves me wondering where to get the £115K i'm short on the basic model though)
>> Edited by Fatboy on Thursday 28th March 14:13
Can't help the anorak mode, we all have our little bugbears, and this one is mine
Edited to add: Forgot to say that I still enjoyed the article, even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I was kind of enamoured with the idea of an e-type that drove like a modern sprots car, shame. (Still at least it saves me wondering where to get the £115K i'm short on the basic model though
) >> Edited by Fatboy on Thursday 28th March 14:13
quote:
Just to agree with Carzee and add my little bit. 'Heavy Water' is still not that heavy - the mass gain over standard water is still only 11%, a better elemental comparison might have been uranium or plutonium, as they are F***ing heavy
Surely that depends on how much you have of each substance? 1 kg of Uranium is a positive lightweight compared to say a Lexus.
Frivolous post but at least it was light hearted.
quote:
...
Anorak mode on: WTF does than mean? Deuterium, being an isotope of hydrogen, is still as light as helium (probably a bit lighter), so not exactly the best element to pick to give the impression of great weight.
I'm sorry but glaring scientific inaccuracies are just one of those things that really wind me up - like 'organic' on food labelling. 'Organic' means carbon based - what food isn't???
...
Sorry Fatboy, but I reckon it will take you "light years" to educate bloke-on-the-street in these matters...
well for what it's worth 3 million posts on , I REALLY enjoyed your article Robert. I disagree with the others who want an in-depth review. IMO, reviews aren't nearly as worthwhile as driving something yourself....so something which covers all aspects, and gives a view of it is a) more interesting, b) funnier, and c) more useful to me anyway.
People are never pleased with a review of something they already have thier own views on anyway!
Night
People are never pleased with a review of something they already have thier own views on anyway!
Night
quote:
it would appear that the cynical sarcastic approach is becoming the norm and that the personalities are becoming more important than the cars. The piece seemed to be a demonstration of Robert's writing style and it's ability to conform to this new media approach rather than a piece on what in my opinion is a classic and beautiful car given a rather thorough restoration but without the normal requirement to keep everything original. I think the approach to the car is brave and commendable and I'd like to read more about the car and the reaction it gets from buyers and the "keep them original" classic chaps and not a piece about Robert Farago if you see what I mean.
This may not have been RF's best piece in some peoples eyes, but I like the slighty sarcastic, witty, JC style of writing. I do want it to include the 'real' info as you do Mark, but I don't want Chris Goffey style tedium that sends me to sleep before I have finish....zzzzzz...
Thom, was it that long ago? I suppose it was, though it sems like yesterday (and I've found some yellow paper!) - I guess my memories are so vivid because the car made such an impression when details were finally announced.
After I stopped racing I kept in touch with Lofty England and I think it was during the E-Type's early years that he took over the day-to-day running of Jaguar. He had always been very patient with me when he ran the works team, and for whatever reason we got on extremely well.
Perhaps that was why I knew all about the E-Type in advance... I knew it had four wheels and an engine and two seats and went like the clappers. Lofty was like that - he enjoyed teasing you - and try as I might I could not get another word out of him about this new invention!
One day the miracle happened though. An envelope arrived with a Coventry postmark and when trembling hands finally opened it out came six pictures of the car which was to rock the foundations of the automotive world.
I hated it. My wife hated it. We agreed that we both hated it. Completely. Then we agreed that 'hate' was maybe too strong a word. But we didn't like it; it was positively ugly. Not a Jaguar at all. Never been so disappointed in my life - we had expected so much, and they gave us this...crickey! (Olde English).
Why? Take a look at it. Look at the windscreen. Far too upright to match the rest of the car. And the headlamps in their monstrous chrome surrounds? Vulgar (Olde English). Not Jaguar's famous 'Grace..Space..Pace' at all. What had they done?
Days passed. The photos got a bit dog-eared and colourful - spots of marmalade? (Olde English). Funny though, bit by bit the eye began to accept what it was seeing and the ugly duckling turned into a signet (baby swan) and then grew into a real swan, and then the car arrived and lo and behold when you saw it 'for real' you saw how beautiful it was.
But unfortunately it didn't really arrive at all. A handful of E-Types were released by the factory (dealer pressure?) before they fully satisfied Sir William Lyons, and the PR people insisted that they should remain in dealers' showrooms for a couple of months. That didn't help - you don't get much tech feedback from a car sitting in a showroom window!
Whatever was going on in Coventry I don't know. At one time it looked as if the cars would be recalled after their 'display' had caused enough excitement to pull in the orders. But no! Telephone call. Go and pick it up. Hats in the air. Christmas again. What excitement! Lovely silver blue - favourite colour, and it looked quite fantastic.
So I went. It started (new battery!), and it ran, and I drove it home. Wow!!! You know the feeling. Or do you? To be perfectly frank I have never felt so strangely disorientated in a car in my life. Normally it takes me about 100 yards to feel at ease, but this one? Weird. To this day I don't know why.
Maybe the seat/wheel/windscreen/pedal relationship. Maybe the immensely long bonnet. Maybe the extraordinary switchgear layout. I can't guess, and why bother! You could say it was just nerves after the long wait. Tell you something though - so many people had sat in that car that the entire leather side of the drivers seat was worn clean through to the bare whatsit.
Not long after setting off for the 60 mile trundle I stopped. Took off sweater, walked round it four times (schoolboy bit), wondered how the hell I could have been so wrong when I first saw the photo. Got back in and started to enjoy it. Those engines could eat oil if they were thrashed too soon, so the journey home was done at a relaxed 70 or so.
It was obvious that there was a mass of torque in it. Pulled from 2,500 like a racehorse wanting to get at it, but the best bet was nothing more than 3,500 for the first thousand miles (yes, 1000)! You could nip up to 4,000 just occasionally, but the big thing was to let it vary. Slow, quick, quick, slow - get the oil up the bores - no better tonic for a new engine.
That was no problem, and the gearbox wasn't much of a worry either. Not quick like nowadays, and you had to think about revs to avoid being too harsh with the synchromesh. I had always heel-and-toed so that was an easy affair. Only four gears anyway, but they were perfect for the car. It was a lovely day when I first drove the E-Type, so there was no fussing with switches for wipers or lights or other distractions. Great stuff!
I was very struck by the ride. The two previous cars had been a 300SL and then a Lancia Aurelia GT, and neither of them had been at all harsh. The E-Type was even less harsh, and I thought "what about the corners?"
Roads were quite smooth in those days, and I had no inhibitions about chucking a brand-new car into the bends quite smartly. To my huge delight it behaved perfectly - no full throttle stuff, with the engine being at a 'delicate' stage, but it promised to be a treat through corners once it was run in. By the way, the steering was excellent, unlike Robert Farago's adventure, with just the right amount of weight and feel.
What with that fantastic new car smell, and the rich burble of the exhaust, and all the other good things I've mentioned, I got home euphoric-like. Alex (Alexandra) thought it was beautiful, and we sat and looked at it that evening lost in admiration - all joy!
I'll go on about the wild bit later - enough for now!
After I stopped racing I kept in touch with Lofty England and I think it was during the E-Type's early years that he took over the day-to-day running of Jaguar. He had always been very patient with me when he ran the works team, and for whatever reason we got on extremely well.
Perhaps that was why I knew all about the E-Type in advance... I knew it had four wheels and an engine and two seats and went like the clappers. Lofty was like that - he enjoyed teasing you - and try as I might I could not get another word out of him about this new invention!
One day the miracle happened though. An envelope arrived with a Coventry postmark and when trembling hands finally opened it out came six pictures of the car which was to rock the foundations of the automotive world.
I hated it. My wife hated it. We agreed that we both hated it. Completely. Then we agreed that 'hate' was maybe too strong a word. But we didn't like it; it was positively ugly. Not a Jaguar at all. Never been so disappointed in my life - we had expected so much, and they gave us this...crickey! (Olde English).
Why? Take a look at it. Look at the windscreen. Far too upright to match the rest of the car. And the headlamps in their monstrous chrome surrounds? Vulgar (Olde English). Not Jaguar's famous 'Grace..Space..Pace' at all. What had they done?
Days passed. The photos got a bit dog-eared and colourful - spots of marmalade? (Olde English). Funny though, bit by bit the eye began to accept what it was seeing and the ugly duckling turned into a signet (baby swan) and then grew into a real swan, and then the car arrived and lo and behold when you saw it 'for real' you saw how beautiful it was.
But unfortunately it didn't really arrive at all. A handful of E-Types were released by the factory (dealer pressure?) before they fully satisfied Sir William Lyons, and the PR people insisted that they should remain in dealers' showrooms for a couple of months. That didn't help - you don't get much tech feedback from a car sitting in a showroom window!
Whatever was going on in Coventry I don't know. At one time it looked as if the cars would be recalled after their 'display' had caused enough excitement to pull in the orders. But no! Telephone call. Go and pick it up. Hats in the air. Christmas again. What excitement! Lovely silver blue - favourite colour, and it looked quite fantastic.
So I went. It started (new battery!), and it ran, and I drove it home. Wow!!! You know the feeling. Or do you? To be perfectly frank I have never felt so strangely disorientated in a car in my life. Normally it takes me about 100 yards to feel at ease, but this one? Weird. To this day I don't know why.
Maybe the seat/wheel/windscreen/pedal relationship. Maybe the immensely long bonnet. Maybe the extraordinary switchgear layout. I can't guess, and why bother! You could say it was just nerves after the long wait. Tell you something though - so many people had sat in that car that the entire leather side of the drivers seat was worn clean through to the bare whatsit.
Not long after setting off for the 60 mile trundle I stopped. Took off sweater, walked round it four times (schoolboy bit), wondered how the hell I could have been so wrong when I first saw the photo. Got back in and started to enjoy it. Those engines could eat oil if they were thrashed too soon, so the journey home was done at a relaxed 70 or so.
It was obvious that there was a mass of torque in it. Pulled from 2,500 like a racehorse wanting to get at it, but the best bet was nothing more than 3,500 for the first thousand miles (yes, 1000)! You could nip up to 4,000 just occasionally, but the big thing was to let it vary. Slow, quick, quick, slow - get the oil up the bores - no better tonic for a new engine.
That was no problem, and the gearbox wasn't much of a worry either. Not quick like nowadays, and you had to think about revs to avoid being too harsh with the synchromesh. I had always heel-and-toed so that was an easy affair. Only four gears anyway, but they were perfect for the car. It was a lovely day when I first drove the E-Type, so there was no fussing with switches for wipers or lights or other distractions. Great stuff!
I was very struck by the ride. The two previous cars had been a 300SL and then a Lancia Aurelia GT, and neither of them had been at all harsh. The E-Type was even less harsh, and I thought "what about the corners?"
Roads were quite smooth in those days, and I had no inhibitions about chucking a brand-new car into the bends quite smartly. To my huge delight it behaved perfectly - no full throttle stuff, with the engine being at a 'delicate' stage, but it promised to be a treat through corners once it was run in. By the way, the steering was excellent, unlike Robert Farago's adventure, with just the right amount of weight and feel.
What with that fantastic new car smell, and the rich burble of the exhaust, and all the other good things I've mentioned, I got home euphoric-like. Alex (Alexandra) thought it was beautiful, and we sat and looked at it that evening lost in admiration - all joy!
I'll go on about the wild bit later - enough for now!
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